2013-08-24, 16:36 | Link #32881 | |
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My problem with a Yasu culprit scenarios is, even more than the perversion of Knox's 1st and Van Dine's 11th, is the 'whydunnit'. The motive for this scale of murder is so batshit insane that it lacks credibility, and you may has well replace her with a Fu Manchu twisting Chinaman. At least with the siblings you've got financial desperation, a history of resentments, competitiveness and a certainty that everyone else would do unto others what they don't do to them first, but it's the knowledge of a bomb that could cover their tracks that really liberates them to do it. Yasu isn't greedy or needy, doesn't have a personal grudge against anyone except Battler, who slighted her by betraying her expectations when he was young, rash and melodramatic. |
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2013-08-24, 16:53 | Link #32882 | ||
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Van Dine's 11th: Quote:
But yes, Yasumotives are on bit shaky ground. In the end there are many factors and flaws that make make at least me consider the possibility that she never planned on killing anyone. But then again, the line between boards and prime should be noted and how this affects Yasu as "culprit". |
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2013-08-24, 17:03 | Link #32883 | |
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In creating PieceYasu PrimeYasu pushed on her all her angry feelings toward... well, everyone. Let's think at the scene in which Maria kills Rosa multiple times in horrible ways. At the moment Maria is furious at Rosa so in her fantasy she does so... although I think in the real world she would be more prone to protect Rosa, not kill her. In the same way PieceYasu might be just Yasu's anger acting. It's pretty easy to kill someone in a fantasy scene so as long as the Yasu culprit theory work only in tales we can accept an interpretation of Yasu with no problems in killing. It'll be different though if Yasu is/was trying to be culprit in Prime as well in the same gruesome way she is in the gameboard. For it to be believable we need to assume Yasu's representation in Ep 7 is terribly biased. Which can be (Kinzo's representation was biased after all) but if that's true it destroy any chance to feel sympathetic toward her. She became a manipulative liar who first tried to trick others into taking part to her Beatrice cult, then tried to seduce George when she failed to have Battler and when she realized after all she still wanted Battler or simply couldn't deal with the insult of Battler forgetting them blackmailed, tricked and used everyone to get her revenge in the worst possible way. It became a little hard to like her if that's the truth about her. |
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2013-08-24, 17:44 | Link #32884 | |
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Spoiler for Higurashi spoilers:
Spoiler for higurashi spoilers:
Due to how he does his research, I find it rather hard to beleive that R7 would make such a critical research flub in a genre where accuracy is pretty important. I do know from an interview that R7 said that Yasu doesn't know anything about guns. This actually throws another hole into the Yasu culprit theory as it relates to EP4. I find it hard to believe that someone who doesn't know anything about guns would know about a gun being compatible with multiple types of ammo. This also brings into question Yasu's actual competence with a firearm. Normally this is a moot point due to short range, but it's really important when it relates to the 2nd twilight, where the most plausible solution given circumstances seems to be a long range shot in bad weather. The second and 4th point are actually related to my major grievance with the Yasu theory in terms of the inconsistency with Shannon's deaths. Since we can reasonably assume that the angle of the shot, the range of the shot (obviously point blank), the type of gun used (a pistol as per OC), and the type of ammo used are the same, the wound should be identical in every way. The Shannon hat is actually pretty strong evidence that there is an inconsistency in regards to the bullet piercing Shannon's head. If it truly penetrated Shannon's head (which it most certainly should given the circumstances are identical to the death in EP4) and if the hat was in a "slumped" angle, why isn't there a hole in the hat nor is a there a big blood stain on the back side of the hat (based on the manga version)? Changing topic to Kinzo's depiction, I'd say the EP7 depiction of Kinzo as a disgusting rapist monster is dead on. Evidence for this being true comes from precident sent in EP5 with just how low his method of "obtaining" Natsui stooped. This sets a precedent for the question of whether Kinzo's heart is worthy of being understood. I'd argue no, it isn't, by sole virtue of him being a rapist and how he seemed to enjoy treating Natsui like garbage.
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Last edited by magnum12; 2013-08-24 at 18:11. |
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2013-08-24, 18:50 | Link #32885 | ||
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But whose bias would it be? It's not an adversarial board here, Bernkastel is effectively Auau's reader, and has effectively passed that job on to Willard, giving him omniscient authority for the story. Bernkastel has no interest in painting Beatrice as sympathetic (though of course her late show for Ange and Lion is definitely heavily biased.) Willard may want to believe the motive is in the heart, but he's not as naive a sucker as Battler, and will analyze more objectively to seek out contradictions. And Claire is just a mouthpiece for a handful of characters who share one body. |
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2013-08-24, 19:24 | Link #32886 | ||
The True Culprit
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2013-08-24, 19:39 | Link #32887 |
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Returning to the topic of guns, has anyone ever addressed the issue of actual sound of a gunshot?
The scale of the island (like between mansion and guesthouse) hasn't been properly addressed iirc, but the sound of gunshot is really, really loud. At least everyone in the same building should be able to hear a clear bang, and it would probably carry much further. Aside from that, the thought of anyone actually firing a gun indoors without any protective equipment like earplugs is also kinda wild thought, though not impossible in any way. I guess they could identify the culprit by checking which person has trouble hearing because damaged ears. Maybe the culprit was actually an ex spec-ops soldier and synchronized timing of the gunshots with the distant thunder. |
2013-08-24, 20:37 | Link #32888 |
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I actually have a theory (backed up by science) that answers the bulk of those questions.
The culprit is using a supressor for most of the murders. As for the science to back it up: The decible rating for a thunder storm is 120 dB, about 10 dB short of the pain threshold for loudness in humans. The noise rating for a rifle can be anywhere between 140 and 170 dB. This is louder than a pistol. Suppressors lower the dB of a gunshot by about 30-40 dB not to mention altering the noise profile of the shot. The sound emited by rifle fire is low frequency. It is also of a lower frequency than pistol and shotgun fire. That last one is pretty important since low frequency sound waves are much more effective at punching through most systems anad methods of sound dampening. Now for the kicker. Suppressors that are compatible with Winchiesters exist. Of course I'm making the assumption that the island is not that far away from the storm so its going to be pretty loud outside. Still, this is further evidence of Yasu being incompetent with fire arms if she doesn't take the noise of the gun into account when doing all of this stuff. Unless this is supposed to be some "truth hidden in the boards" style warning about Prime's culprit being someone who IS competent with fire arms.
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2013-08-24, 21:08 | Link #32890 | |
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On a different issue, I've been wondering about something. Do people here think that Kinzo knew about Yasu at the time when he had the epitaph set up? I was looking around on a blog that was talking about the series, and it seemed to assume that the reason Kinzo left the epitaph open for anybody to try was because he knew Yasu was alive and on the island. (The argument was, I think, that Kinzo's sexism is such that had Lion been born female, he would not have let her be a candidate for the headship - as he certainly didn't do that with Beatrice 2. But that with Lion/Yasu being born male, and Kinzo knowing about the not being dead thing, he could make the epitaph open to anyone, believing it would go to Yasu.) |
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2013-08-24, 21:18 | Link #32891 | |||||
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I mean the episode first seems to imply Kinzo raped his daughter then everyone is more or less cool with it? Okay, so Genji isn't exactly cool but the general stance is: don't judge Kinzo harshly it was so hard for him to resist but he tried... Even Beatrice's behaviour on the matter are glossed over. Was she raped as she said no but Kinzo didn't listen her or did she says yes out of obligation leading Kinzo to delude himself she was cool with it? In the end it seems she wasn't so cool with it but again the whole issue is taken rather lightly. Sure, Kinzo has a position of power but still... (and I'll never understand Genji's plan. He's afraid Yasu will end like her mother so he hid her under another name and then... get her back on Rokkenjima because he hopes Kinzo will recognize her/bond with her or something. Because a man who jumped on his daughter would hesitate to jump on a female servant that might look like her. Yeah, a female servant is definitely off limits for Kinzo. Nothing like a daughter or a male grandchild with genital troubles. And yes, Yasu's life is totally better now that she's forced to work as a servant at such a young age under a mistress who doesn't want her around and with coworkers who're envious of the fact she gets a single room. Absolutely better. It couldn't be any cooler if she had remained in the orphanage and had gotten adopted...) Quote:
Not only the servant culprit was cliche like the dog remaining silent because the culprit was a family member but some considered it a little classist. In other words it makes things look like as the lords, masters, higher ups would be good guys while the servants would be the ones who would commit crimes against the oh so noble lords. It reminds me of when the doctor in 10 little indians claims he can't be the culprit because he's an important, respectable person. Quote:
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LOL, it'll be fun if the solution to Erika hears nothing from Battler's room was: the room is soundproof and in order to let Erika hear him screaming Battler had to open the window or the door. Everything else that happened while the door/window was close couldn't be heard by Erika. Though likely Yasu used some trick to silence the gun. Quote:
Sure thing it was rather suspicious for Genji to hire such a young servant... but maybe Kinzo couldn't just wrap his mind over his grandson/son being now a grandaughter/daughter so he suspected Genji was hiding something but never figured out Lion was there. |
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2013-08-24, 21:33 | Link #32892 | |
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And here is the extract from the EP6 script showing that Yasu had contact with guns (unless you suppose it was a lie for some reason): `Then, the doors to the kitchen and the dining hall came into sight...`\ `All of it brings back fond memories.`\ `......There was the honor and rigidity of serving Kinzo directly.`@ `However, that man wasn't rigid all the time.`@ `......When the family was out of sight and he didn't have to preserve that air of majesty,`@` his face could turn unbelievably childish, and he would sometimes ask me to take part in strange pranks.`\ `.........The Master let me shoot lots of guns, didn't he...`@ This may also be an indication for "Kinzo wasn't such a bad guy all the time" Heck, EP6 has so many clues about things that are only revealed at EP8, it is almost funny.
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Last edited by GreyZone; 2013-08-24 at 21:46. |
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2013-08-24, 21:44 | Link #32893 | |
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Maybe I was unclear in that line, but I only attribute to R07 a critical view of Van Dine -- the specific reasons I detailed are my own, and I didn't intend to put them in R07's mouth. |
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2013-08-25, 00:42 | Link #32894 | |
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Spoiler for Our confession:
Now Im no gun expert but here's a sound of one rifle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mbaO7qLzS8. And that's what I imagine when I think rifle fire.
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2013-08-25, 00:50 | Link #32895 |
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People don't get wet when they go out in the rain in this story. I think the narrative accounting for whether anyone should be noticing gunshots is a pretty unlikely occurrence, along with noticing whether someone was shot at close range from their clothes.
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2013-08-25, 02:53 | Link #32896 | |
The True Culprit
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2013-08-25, 06:17 | Link #32897 | |
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I'll be fine with a certain slack but such total disregard is... well, too much. Now I'm starting to think Shannon really switched costumes as fast as superman to him because... who cares? Also in a way the Our confession narrative imply something in how Beato deals with corpses: either she's so coldblooded nothing shock her so digging in a bleeding wound of a corpse is a piece of cake or Yasu's just thinking she'll do it no problem for her narrative. In real life many people are grossed out by things like this to the point they can even feel sick. |
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2013-08-25, 09:57 | Link #32898 | |
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The grand irony is that if Ryukishi had accounted for clothes getting wet in the rain, Shkanon would actually matter to the solution as Shannon/Kanon changing to the other character after she was outside when she shouldn't have been would have actually been integral to the solution. Go figure, right?
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2013-08-25, 10:21 | Link #32899 | |
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I'm not making any unsupported suppositions here. If you have anything of substance regarding a 'Death of the Author' statement, you can demonstrate it to someone who cares, because I can't find that in any way relevant to solving the mysteries. |
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