2009-02-15, 17:05 | Link #1061 | |||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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If you meant that factions were but one thing they should have done, it might have been better to write that down as well. As it stands, your initial post is very much implying that your logic is "More races would make this game better." Quote:
Not to mention they also took the risk of releasing the single-player as 3 different games, one campaign per game each, and you can see why Blizzard shied away from adding yet another gamble to the mix. Quote:
Starcraft 2 on the other hand, is a long ways from a well-established game. |
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2009-02-16, 13:15 | Link #1062 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: planet earth
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Oh please, there were radical changes and badly unbalanced patches from the beginning. This isn’t the only time paladins were very powerful; and even shamans were once considered “overpowered” back in the day. |
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2009-02-16, 13:36 | Link #1064 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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@scorpian
have you ever played an rts, because you seem to miss the point on adding races. In AoE, Supreme Commander, "mutiple" races were just guys in different skins, with tech trees changed abit, hell even most C&C games are this way untill recently with C&C 3 and RA3. RTSs are really hard to balance, and blizzard is making this game in mind with professional players, not just the casual market. So balance is important. The reason why blizzard games are always good is because of the idea of balance, and what makes SC factions so great is that there disctinctly unique. Each has their own tech trees, their own special features as races that differ greatly from one another. This was true for Emperor of Dune, but when you add more distinctly different races, sooner or latter since only a certain amount of things can be applied to rtss, you'll eventually create something that will wreck the competitive nature of the game. C&C3 got rocked severly when a imbalance was detected in the scrin, at the time EA spent monthes ignoring it, in the end it pretty much decimated online play. So to say adding new races is not hard, means you clearly haven't thought about what it takes to make a game, let alone a rts. also your comment on dawn of war, is not that great, because dawn of war compared to CoH is by far inferior. Plus half the races play exactly the same in Dawn of War, also resource aquisition is quite similar for all races thus removes a lot of the tactical advantages that blizzard uses for its RTS. Maximizing resources is really important in blizzard rtss whereas Dawn of war it doesnt matter as much, whats more important is tactical placement of forces and area aquisition. Also if you look at dawn of war 2 there are most likely 3 races, Orcs, humans, and tyranids which makes sense because providing a balanced game is more fun then just everbody plays the same race. |
2009-02-16, 13:52 | Link #1065 | ||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I note that you have yet to comment on the second bit, which still applies here. |
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2009-02-16, 14:40 | Link #1066 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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What are you guys suddenly going off about? Did something happen in the last few days?
I was under the impression since the ending of Brood Wars that there was going to be a fourth race added to the game at some point.
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2009-02-16, 14:43 | Link #1067 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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we're going off on the idea that blizzard 'should' have added a new race in Starcraft 2. Scorpian is of the opinion they should have, some are not, I understand Blizzard's decision not to do so immediately, and the debate trailed on from there.
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2009-02-16, 15:11 | Link #1068 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: planet earth
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There will be, however there are some people here who wish the game to remain at three races, because they seem to believe that the addition of 1-2 races will necessarily ruin the game. Quote:
And, as for everything else, you're all still arguing from the point of view of a developer without much resources; I'm arguing from a player's perspective and stated that I'd wish they added a race or two. You're mentioning blizzards "risks" and etc. but none of you have really stated any reasons why *you* yourselves wouldn't like the idea. Why would you not like to have an additional race or two if they are balanced well? What is so horrible about the idea? |
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2009-02-16, 15:19 | Link #1070 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Let me sum it up:
If it's well-done, balanced, distinctive, everyone would like another new race or two. Yet because it is extremely difficult and risky, and the 3 basic races already function well enough, Blizzard didn't make that choice. Scorpian, however, believes they should have enough time and money to do so. We all believe even with all that time and money, it is still a huge risk putting in more races. Is that correct? What are you guy fighting about? Since Blizzard never did make another race from the start, there's no way telling if that would have turned out nicely or not. Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-02-16 at 15:33. |
2009-02-16, 15:23 | Link #1071 | |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
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But being realistic on how difficult it is to balance these things, and considering the amount of following that Starcraft 2 will get from day one, unlike it's younger brother, I think I'd prefer Blizzard to play safe and use an enhanced, yet known and proven formula for their most successful franchise and leave the experimenting for other projects. Because: The most important aspect of Stacraft is the multi player. An unbalanced game creates a not so happy environment for hasu and gosu players, and an unhappy high profile community is a community that will disappear in the long run, or never reach the potential it could have. Being the hard core starcraft fan I used to be back in the day, I think my decision is obvious.
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2009-02-16, 15:29 | Link #1072 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: planet earth
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Absolutely. I really believe they're simply holding of in order to stretch out the money - which is fine, you know, make your money, but I think the fans deserve a bit more than this especially after 10+ years. And, they definetly overdid it with the way they only allowed one playable race campaign each exansion. I believe that if they really tried, they can certainly pull it off. Quote:
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2009-02-16, 15:43 | Link #1073 | ||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Now if you ask me, meh, I prefer they lay down the new story first, and then carry on introducing new races in the inevitable expansion. From what we've heard so far the Xel'Naga are going to play a vital role in this game, so I would prefer they would lay down the story for them first, and then introduce them later on, rather then just BAM! here are the Xel'Naga, whom up to this point you'd only vaguely heard about. Yay. Last edited by Keroko; 2009-02-16 at 15:59. |
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2009-02-16, 15:44 | Link #1074 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Ok, let me point this out one more time, if you were to add 1, i mean as in, ichi, uno, i, un, the amount of time to produce a BALANCED game would probably tack on atleast a year of development, and this isn't even considering the fact that blizzard only makes GOOD games. So instead of a year for most general studios to do what your asking, blizzard most likely would have to add an additional two years on to the project just to add one new race. Therefore the marginal improvements of one race versus 3 years of twiddling my thumbs as I play dota is not a prospect that I appreciate. Look would it be better if they could do all the stuff you said? Yes. Would it be realistic? No. Just because WoW is a profit maker, right now Activision is pretty much sucking Blizzard dry, honestly, as long as the launch games that are good, I don't care how long it takes. I'm not saying that another race wouldn't help but the amount of time and effort at this stage would take way too long for fans to take. If you consider another 3 year wait on what you already know for an additional race, I'm pretty sure most fans will take the finished 3 race product now over 1 extra race in 3 years.
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2009-02-16, 15:45 | Link #1075 |
brrr
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There's only one campaign per expansion, yes. But the singleplayer campaign is much more detailed n' shit. It's not just do that map and you're done. The campaign is also a LOT longer. If I remember correctly, there's about 20 missions per campaign. or it might have been 30 actually
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2009-02-16, 16:04 | Link #1077 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Quote:
For comparison, the average Starcraft campaign was around 10 missions I believe. That's triple the game. Don't mind if I drool. |
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2009-02-16, 16:36 | Link #1078 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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I'd like to live in a post-scarcity society where all the energy of the sun is harnessed in some kind of Dyson Sphere and we have armies of loyal robots doing all the menial but necessary tasks and the entirety of humanity would live in leisure while devoting their time to philosophy and art, but you don't see me writing to my congressman about it. That's because its unreasonable to ask for. Instead we care about things like taxes and social security and the job market. This is what we call being realistic.
Now, that's an extreme example, but that's what's going on in this thread. On one hand we have someone who's asking for their ideal game, and on the other hand we have the response that we'd rather play a very good game in the next year or two than a very good game with 2 more races in five years. As Blizzard is fond of telling us, you can't make a great game by throwing more money and people at it. Adding more people probably slows development if anything. |
2009-02-16, 16:37 | Link #1079 |
Hina is my goddess
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Personally, i think adding another race would be disastrous. Who knows how long, or if ever these new races will balance out with the rest. The reason why Starcraft is so popular today, and still hold competitive yearly tournaments is because of its balance.
What does adding a new race even add to the game? Not much. Each race has already carved its own unique style. Zergs outnumber and spread, Terran are specialized and mobile, Protoss units are the most power, but most expensive of the bunch. If you want something new and different, check out some of the videos from blizzcon. Almost all new units were used, except the Teir 1 (marine, Zealot, and zergling). These units have new abilities and will change the game will be played. The game is changed, but the style and soul is the same. @Clarste (wrote his while i was typing up mine) Your under the assumption that if it could all be balanced everyone people would prefer that. I dont think that is true at all. A lot of the responses here, and me included, want to keep the "soul" of the game the same. |
2009-02-18, 22:30 | Link #1080 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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Personally, I kinda wanted to see another race in StarCraft 2 as well but at the same time I understand the decision not to do so. StarCraft 2 has an incredible legacy that it has to live up to, I mean 10 years on and the original StarCraft is still being played worldwide (not mentioning the fact that it's one of the handful of games that are on the leading forefronts of E-Sports). Developing StarCraft 2 naturally isn't going to be an easy job, and adding an extra race or two into the mix isn't going to make things any eaiser either.
However that doesn't necessarily mean that an extra race is out of the question altogether, they could very well still appear in the single player campaign (which is my best bet atm), much like how the Nagas and Bloodelves were included in the single player campaign of WarCraft 3 as minor races but left out in the multiplayer for the sake of balance. There's also the chance that they could appear in the expansion packs or in the map editor as well.
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blizzard, starcraft, windows |
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