AnimeSuki Forums

Rovert10 · 2013-07-22, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acer

but Touman has faced armed people as terrorists in vol 17 and others, I would not say it is a victory for sure using weapons against him, but the best option, and I love those moments.

That's also a thing with Touma.
He actually thinks of how to approach the situation in the best manner possible. Rather than every other shounen hero that practically brute forces everything but Touma doesn't have that option.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-07-22, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth

There was an interesting article recently in the German weekly newspaper "Die Zeit" about Heroes.

The author is the grandson of Christoph Probst, one of the members of White Rose, and he wrote, that nowadays "Heroes" are characterized as "Winners" or "Achivers" in accordance to the theory of Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with Thousand Faces", but in his opinion a hero is someone who gives everything he has for the sake of that he thinks is right without expecting anything in return.

And it is true, there are a lot of heroes especially in World War 2 who saved a lot of people, but they were punished for it instead of being rewarded.

So, what kind of hero is Touma? Is he the former one, because he always win, or actually the latter one, because his problems never stop and he never helped for profit?

If I understand this right, Kamijou can also be considered an Achiever in the sense that he has the results backing him up, adding to his mythical status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rovert10

It ain't hard to beat Touma at all really. Take a gun and point at head.

If it was that easy why couldn't Skill Out kill him?

Because of circumstances and outside factors right? Just the same- with the right circumstances anyone can take a gun and point at anyone's head.

EDIT: Heh, I just realized a funny thing- Accelerator did took a bullet to the head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero8420

And so, compare Touma with other protagonists in terms of the sense of justice.

Pfft, there's nothing impressive about his sense of justice.

I want to compare them with his Will to Act.

Rovert10 · 2013-07-22, 09:54

That's because Touma doesn't charge in blindly like an idiot.
He actually ducks for cover and sneaks in preventing Skill Out from actually getting a good shot at him.

Should he ever fight someone who's better than him in either planning and using non-supernatural skills. Which he has aka Tsuchimikado.
He get's owned pretty quickly or you can be a Saint and brute force with pure physical strength.

Acer · 2013-07-22, 10:28

Touma vs Seria, That would be interesting, and maybe, just maybe it could happen, depending on how the threat of Touma for Kaizumi to be treated by Kamachi.

Reality_Breaker · 2013-07-22, 11:14

Found this in another thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sackett

On the other hand, Touma has not had a lot of character development himself. He always tries to get people to rely on him, but he won't rely on others. Touma ought to be moving in a similar arc towards realizing that he needs a heroine in his life who is matched well with him and can save him when he needs saving. (This is one of the reasons a lot of fanfiction has Touma actually call Mikoto and ask her for help with some problem, the fans instinctively realize that this is the important next step for Touma to develop properly).

I think that this is right on the money, If we think about the way Touma has been developing since the beginning of the NT volumes it makes a lot of sense that it's leading up to an arc that reflects his actions in the Sisters arc.

As we all know Touma is notorious for not asking for help, and all thoughout the LN volumes the one who's always trying to make him ask her for help is Mikoto, so I think that because of the way NT is developing an arc where he does ask her for help might come sooner or later, which when/if it happens the internet might blow up from the discussions resulting from it.

Acer · 2013-07-22, 11:37

but Touma has already asked for help a few volumes, take the vol 6 NT example with Cendrilion, and he even admits that he can do yourself is very little and so he will always need help, and vol 5 he says he has thought about asking your friends for help, but the question is would you put the lives of those you like in danger?

I think unnecessary a scene full of cries and tears of Touma for help for someone unstable and attacks first and then asks how Mikoto, when he has the most reliable people available.

Ilidsor · 2013-07-22, 11:39

Touma relies on others all the time though. Sure he doesn't go around asking people to risk their lives for him, but if someone offers to help he accepts it. He calls Misaka a couple of times to ask her for technical help too.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Reality_Breaker · 2013-07-22, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acer

but Touma has already asked for help a few volumes, take the vol 6 NT example with Cendrilion, and he even admits that he can do yourself is very little and so he will always need help, and vol 5 he says he has thought about asking your friends for help, but the question is would you put the lives of those you like in danger?

I think unnecessary a scene full of cries and tears of Touma for help for someone unstable and attacks first and then asks how Mikoto, when he has the most reliable people available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Touma relies on others all the time though. Sure he doesn't go around asking people to risk their lives for him, but if someone offers to help he accepts it. He calls Misaka a couple of times to ask her for technical help too.

EDIT: Ninja'd

He asks for help but not really, it's always mostly for info. What I mean is he hasn't yet had to do something that pushes him to a limit that really truly breaks him (difficult since he's a protagonist and hero) and makes him admit he needs to rely on someone elses help instead of just asking for help and still doing all the work just with more info.

p.s. NT1 - 7 has been a good beginning to this new side to Touma since he relied on more people than usual, except when he reverted back to his usual I'll do it myself way of thinking in NT. 4 (still was pretty awesome though). I actually like the LN a lot more like it's been in NT where he now has his own team to help him.

Ilidsor · 2013-07-22, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reality_Breaker

He asks for help but not really, it's always mostly for info. What I mean is he hasn't yet had to do something that pushes him to a limit that really truly breaks him (difficult since he's a protagonist and hero) and makes him admit he needs to rely on someone elses help instead of just asking for help and still doing all the work just with more info.

Aqua of the Back. That fight was exactly what you are describing.

Reality_Breaker · 2013-07-22, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Aqua of the Back. That fight was exactly what you are describing.

But to me that fight with the Amakusa vs Aqua, was more like the Amakusa wanting to help Touma and him going to help those who wanted to help him, he never asked them for help. The NT volumes are more in line with what I said than the first part of the Light Novels.

Doc Astaroth · 2013-07-22, 17:46

So, basically what we need is a situation, there Touma is incapicated and it is other people's moment to shine... Well, there was that situation in GB, but still even here Touma got to do the finish blow.

However, I think, he was really happy to see all bystander to be able to fight and his attack was basically just one of many... And he was the only one who dared to do a Fastball Special with one of the most powerful characters at the scene and to be honest, he has already got some experience in punching bitches back to senses, so...

That by the way is in my opinion another thing I like about Touma. He does evolve like other heroes, but it is not such a sudden process as usual for his type of hero.

He has become a little more tactial in using his enviroment and his allies as well as setting up his enemies. He can analyse and evade supernatural attacks better and he has discover how to make use of some side effects of the Imagine Breaker. We also now that he has a healing factor (at least for his right arm).

He has become better... without suddenly getting an additional power like the negation of cause or spell reflection or something like that.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-07-22, 18:28

I don't think any future Kamijou development should be moving forward, but rather backward.

Childhood revelations please.

Reality_Breaker · 2013-07-22, 19:14

You know what forget my first post the more I think about it the more I realize that the NT volumes focus exactly on this, since the Kamijou faction is now real and Touma does seem to be asking for more help then pre-NT Touma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I don't think any future Kamijou development should be moving forward, but rather backward.

Childhood revelations please.

I too want to know more about Toumas childhood and get clearity on how Imagine Breaker affected his childhood, but that would be more suited for an SS volume.

Kuroi Hadou · 2013-07-22, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Aqua of the Back. That fight was exactly what you are describing.

That wasn't a fight. "One-sided massacre" is a bit more accurate, and I'm still pissed off about Touma living through how much punishment he took.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-07-22, 19:24

^Nanomachines son.

Kuroi Hadou · 2013-07-22, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

^Nanomachines son.

Don't work too well against a guy that can collapse buildings with a single swing of a 5m rod of iron.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-07-22, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Don't work too well against a guy that can collapse buildings with a single swing of a 5m rod of iron.

They harden against physical trauma

Kuroi Hadou · 2013-07-22, 19:44

Now who's the one with illu-- delusions?

Reality_Breaker · 2013-07-22, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

^Nanomachines son.

Hey if Revolution can get away with it why not TAMNI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Don't work too well against a guy that can collapse buildings with a single swing of a 5m rod of iron.

Well considering what Toumas survived (ex. a fight with Superman and riding what can be called an asteroid into the face of an angel into a freezing sea) i'll believe it

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-07-22, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Now who's the one with illu-- delusions?

Ahh! You don't believe me >_< !? Even though they both have cyborgs and psychics!?

2013-07-22, 11:39	Link #1507
Ilidsor Angelerator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Canada	Touma relies on others all the time though. Sure he doesn't go around asking people to risk their lives for him, but if someone offers to help he accepts it. He calls Misaka a couple of times to ask her for technical help too. EDIT: Ninja'd __________________

2013-07-22, 18:28	Link #1512
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	I don't think any future Kamijou development should be moving forward, but rather backward. Childhood revelations please. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2013-07-22, 19:24	Link #1515
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	^Nanomachines son. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2013-07-22, 19:44	Link #1518
Kuroi Hadou Dark Energy Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: United States	Now who's the one with illu-- delusions? __________________

2013-07-22, 09:54	Link #1503
Rovert10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	That's because Touma doesn't charge in blindly like an idiot. He actually ducks for cover and sneaks in preventing Skill Out from actually getting a good shot at him. Should he ever fight someone who's better than him in either planning and using non-supernatural skills. Which he has aka Tsuchimikado. He get's owned pretty quickly or you can be a Saint and brute force with pure physical strength.

2013-07-22, 10:28	Link #1504
Acer Death to the infidels! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: in a world of pain!	Touma vs Seria, That would be interesting, and maybe, just maybe it could happen, depending on how the threat of Touma for Kaizumi to be treated by Kamachi.

2013-07-22, 11:37	Link #1506
Acer Death to the infidels! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: in a world of pain!	but Touma has already asked for help a few volumes, take the vol 6 NT example with Cendrilion, and he even admits that he can do yourself is very little and so he will always need help, and vol 5 he says he has thought about asking your friends for help, but the question is would you put the lives of those you like in danger? I think unnecessary a scene full of cries and tears of Touma for help for someone unstable and attacks first and then asks how Mikoto, when he has the most reliable people available.

2013-07-22, 17:46	Link #1511
Doc Astaroth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	So, basically what we need is a situation, there Touma is incapicated and it is other people's moment to shine... Well, there was that situation in GB, but still even here Touma got to do the finish blow. However, I think, he was really happy to see all bystander to be able to fight and his attack was basically just one of many... And he was the only one who dared to do a Fastball Special with one of the most powerful characters at the scene and to be honest, he has already got some experience in punching bitches back to senses, so... That by the way is in my opinion another thing I like about Touma. He does evolve like other heroes, but it is not such a sudden process as usual for his type of hero. He has become a little more tactial in using his enviroment and his allies as well as setting up his enemies. He can analyse and evade supernatural attacks better and he has discover how to make use of some side effects of the Imagine Breaker. We also now that he has a healing factor (at least for his right arm). He has become better... without suddenly getting an additional power like the negation of cause or spell reflection or something like that.