[Manga] Chapter 490 Discussion

[Alca]

Hmmmm end of this chapter was very interesting. I have a theory about sasuke's control of the 9 tails after naruto learns how to control it.

first off, we all know oro taught sasuke how to suppress the kyubi. Now my theory is since naruto will be extracting the 9 tail powe without the will. It will be impossible or difficult for the 9 tails to be suppressed. Reason being Naruto's will will most likely over rule sasukes suppression. Sasuke can suppress the Fox not naruto, so in short if naruto lets the kyubi take control then and only then can sasukes suppression work effectively. As long as naruto has the "will of fire" he will beable to use the 9 tails chakra.


Also on the kabuto mandara conversation I think its safe to say its not the sage of six paths or any hax shinobi. Reason being Manadra's attitude towards Kabuto which is a give away. Kabuto is basically in short black mailing him; so what ever he summoned is most likely a clue/ key of his power or existence in whole.

[DNE]

the person in the box is the 4th. i thought everyone would have known that by now? onlythen can he make naruto go crazy and 9 nine gets loose my theory anyway

[Emilis]

Oh for crying out loud. I hate this whole "It can't be _____ because they're not important to the story" argument! Was Madara important before Naruto 364? Was Jiraiya important before Naruto 91? Was Orochimaru important before Naruto 47? Was Sasuke important before Naruto 3?

Just because a character hasn't played any sort of a major role so far in the manga is no reason to think they can't start playing a big part. Everyone had to be introduced at one point or another. I heard this same argument back when people thought Hinata would become Naruto's girlfriend or something because she saved him from Pain and confessed. Some said she couldn't simply because she wasn't an important character. Guess what, if Kishi decided to write it so that she did, she would become a more important character at that point. If he decides Tobi is really Obito (or anyone else besides Madara), then he instantly becomes relevant to the story.

Sure Naruto or Sasuke may not care about who he was in the past, but who he is now is definitely relevant. Uchiha Madara was the same way. His past was in no way tied to Sasuke or Naruto that we were aware of until well after his identity was supposedly revealed. After that revelation we began to learn ways he was connected such as with the Uchiha massacre. Don't think this couldn't happen with Obito or anyone else. Heck a tie to a secondary character like Kakashi was more than we got with Madara.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Emilis

Oh for crying out loud. I hate this whole "It can't be _____ because they're not important to the story" argument! Was Madara important before Naruto 364? Was Jiraiya important before Naruto 91? Was Orochimaru important before Naruto 47? Was Sasuke important before Naruto 3?

You seem to be misunderstanding what I am talking about. Jiraiya, Orochimaru, hell any new character when introduced, starts with a blank slate in regards to the connections with the story and the main characters (new characters are not the same as reintroduced characters – who should only be reintroduced if they are properly foreshadowed, something I do not think was done for Obito). As they involve themselves with the story, we learn of their importance based on their closeness to the main characters. Why do we not see Neji and Team Gai? Because they are currently unimportant to the current story. But, since they are living, and they have a direct connection to the main character, then they at least have a chance to become more important. That is what happened to Hinata, afterall.

Originally Posted by Emilis

Just because a character hasn't played any sort of a major role so far in the manga is no reason to think they can't start playing a big part. Everyone had to be introduced at one point or another. I heard this same argument back when people thought Hinata would become Naruto's girlfriend or something because she saved him from Pain and confessed. Some said she couldn't simply because she wasn't an important character. Guess what, if Kishi decided to write it so that she did, she would become a more important character at that point. If he decides Tobi is really Obito (or anyone else besides Madara), then he instantly becomes relevant to the story.

Hinata was always written with a direct connection to a main character. Consequently, whatever she did in the future, at least when interacting with the main character(s), was relevant.

Obito has no such connection to the main characters. His character was created to explain Kakakshi's "tragic" past. Consequently, his connection was always to a secondary character, not the main character(s), unlike Hinata, Sasuke, Iruka, and every other character created that interacts with Naruto.

A thought to be deceased character that only had a connection to a secondary character coming back from the dead to become the head bad guy seems very cheap...the characters have no real emotional involvement with the villain, and that is troublesome.

But, because I am kind , I will give you the name you need for future debates using these lines of thought: Nagato - he was created with a connection to a secondary character that then became a connection to the main character. Admittedly, Obito supposedly died, whereas Nagato was simply left to himself, but this is still, probably, the best argument that can be made for Obito potentially becoming important (admittedly, Nagato was created with importance in mind, whereas Obito died tragically to save his friends, so they are obviously different back stories).

Originally Posted by Emilis

Sure Naruto or Sasuke may not care about who he was in the past, but who he is now is definitely relevant. Uchiha Madara was the same way. His past was in no way tied to Sasuke or Naruto that we were aware of until well after his identity was supposedly revealed. After that revelation we began to learn ways he was connected such as with the Uchiha massacre. Don't think this couldn't happen with Obito or anyone else. Heck a tie to a secondary character like Kakashi was more than we got with Madara.

Where did Sasuke and Naruto have their first epic battle, where Sasuke decided vengeance was of pivotal importance, and Naruto strived to find a way toward peace? The Valley of the End; the place where Madara Uchiha and Hashirama Senjuu fought to decide the future of the Shinobi World.

Kishimoto has so evolved the story around that simple comparison that all of Part II stems from that battle, and consequently, that comparison.

Additionally, Kishimoto's best storytelling was always his foreshadowing in the Uchiha Massacre that lead to the Itachi reveal, and then the formal Madara reveal. To kill all of that great storytelling just to connect this character to Obito seems like an epic way to shit on the best bit of storytelling the author has created thus far. And all of that would also shit on a character that died so that his friends may live.

(Note, I am not saying that the person calling himself Madara couldn’t be someone else pretending (for whatever reason) to be Madara (the current theories: Obito, Danzou, Minato, Tobirama, Shisui, etc), I just think Obito would be a horrific choice for such a reveal (I still have never received an adequate answer for why Madara was going to reveal himself to Sasuke if he simply looked like Obito, but whatever).)

That being said, I am going to bow out of this conversation for now, seeing as I have taken up 4 or 5 of the last 8 pages discussing this issue. Please respond, and have a nice day .

---

Since I've enjoyed creating weird theories as of late, here's a new one : the person known as Tobi/Madara is an imposter, and Kabuto did summon the original Madara. But, the person pretending to be Madara is actually...a body (not Obito) inhabited by the mind of the Jyuubi . That's right, the Jyuubi is trying to reclaim it's body by recreating it using all the combined Bijuu, and the Rinnegan was supposed to help in the combination process.

[JustRob]

Yeah I'm actually starting to think Madara is an imposter now. Indeed, subtle hints have been dropped that suggest that he's not truly Madara. On top of that, Madara has never revealed his EMS yet, which he should still have. Also, why does he only have one hole in his mask?

Could it be that the guy with the mask is not the real Madara, but an accomplice? No, how is that even possible. Besides, Madara did show he's somewhat immune to most attacks.

It has to be a person Madara doesn't want anyone to see. A secret nobody can find out about or he'd be in trouble. Either that, or it's someone so immensely strong that it assures Madara victory in the war. It has to be one of these two, otherwise there's no way he'd change his mind so quickly.

[JustRob]

[Sinaura]

Well well well, Tobi is Obito? It would explain the whole wearing the mask to hide the crushed face sort of thing. Has the predictions of years passed come true? Oh my Naruto has gotten interesting once again!

[Midnight Commander]

I don't see why naruto thinks he can't defeat Sasuke without the nine tails, I was so hoping for him to fight without relying on the damn thing. I thought it was so awesome that he became so strong without it and reached sage status. Now we're back to this relying on the kyuubi again... This will ruin his rematch with Sasuke in my eyes, because I was so looking forward him to fight as pure Naruto, the way he stood against Pein before and after the chibaku tensei.

As for Kabuto, I agree with the earlier poster, that snake continuously hovering behind him does look incredibly suspicious. Since Oro can "become" anyone of his many snakes that he is comprised of, I wouldn't say its impossible for that snake to be Orochimaru and for Kabuto to be a decoy to keep safe from Madara's attacks. But then again, physical attacks don't affect this guy much, but who knows what he might know about Madara's powers that we don't... lol.

Still, I don't see how disguising himself as Kabuto benefits him really... His eyes though, I really don't trust them lol it feels as if Oro is just right there -- just like that when he disguised himself to watch the mini-tournament, when he showed Sandaime the girl he absorbed and that guy he absorbed just before Sasuke came to his hideout. They all looked different, except for those evil snake eyes. Then again, Kabuto did speak to himself and say "Im getting used to Orochimaru's powers". ....Who knows, in the end maybe Oro was playing him the whole time and will resurface, or perhaps just needed time to gather his conciousness.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Zek

I'm not even sure how Killerbee is supposed to help Naruto with this. He doesn't block out the 8-tails' influence through lack of hate, they're just really good buddies.

Have they always been though?
Bee may have perfected the will needed to pull out the 8 tails chakra without pulling out the mind. I also don't think Bee has ever shown any kind of real hatred, he keeps himself under control. It could be that his combined control of hate and will power may have given the 8 tails no actual say in their relationship... the 8 tails may have only became good buddies because Bee didn't give him any choice and the 8 tails just bares with it... the rest of the partnership results from the fact that the 8 tails is screwed if Bee dies


The two tails could have also been learning to do the same but did not perfect it too the point that Bee did and was not able to pull out as much chakra as he could without also pulling out the mind

Originally Posted by JustRob

Would "THAT" a form of "THIS"?

[Nite-Wing]

Madara has one eye because the Jyubi has one eye, It makes sense but also makes you think Kishi is just making this up as he goes along and hasn't really planned out the story.

The number of plot holes lately speaks largely to this fact. Now we have Kabuto who instead of bring Oro back and making him tell him how to be immortal or learn jutsu he is trying to get closer to sasuke by joining the organization that is pretty much destined to lose by aligning itself with a guy like Kabuto.
The logic that a lot of the characters display just makes me sad

[JustRob]

I expect Kabuto to betray Madara, since Kabuto did say he would kill Sasuke.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

He can. Orochimaru tried to do it - the Third stopped him as he was summoning the third coffin during their epic battle.

If you check ch.118, Oro didn't succeed in summoning the third coffin, I'll take it as an indication that he actually can't, which is why the technique failed for that particular one.

That being said, I am going to bow out of this conversation for now, seeing as I have taken up 4 or 5 of the last 8 pages discussing this issue. Please respond, and have a nice day

Take a break, we'll manage somehow

Madara has one eye because the Jyubi has one eye, It makes sense but also makes you think Kishi is just making this up as he goes along and hasn't really planned out the story.

The number of plot holes lately speaks largely to this fact. Now we have Kabuto who instead of bring Oro back and making him tell him how to be immortal or learn jutsu he is trying to get closer to sasuke by joining the organization that is pretty much destined to lose by aligning itself with a guy like Kabuto.

Where was it said that the Jyubi only has one eye? How are the akatsuki losing anything by recruiting Kabuto, the man just summoned back half the organization and possesses the powers of their exiled member...As for his goals, they've always been shady, so this is to be expected of him.

[Haak]

OMG WHAT is in that God damn coffin!?!?!?!

[d' airscapez]

Originally Posted by JustRob

I expect Kabuto to betray Madara, since Kabuto did say he would kill Sasuke.

*salute* goodwork captain obvious.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Kabuto is going to summon count dracula
And Tobi is scared

[yakumo-chan]

Kakashi even said so....



"But considering his plan, I doubt it could be anyone else"

another great clue huh?

[KK1412]

Originally Posted by Akachou

Where's your so-called top 5 now?

lol oops forgot to list them

My top 5

1. Danzo
2. Yondaime
3. 3rd Hokage
4. Jiraiya
and the 5th one....which I think is the right one...is...

Spoiler for The one who is inside the box:

LUFFY!!!!

[Nintendo]

Originally Posted by KK1412

lol oops forgot to list them

My top 5

1. Danzo
2. Yondaime
3. 3rd Hokage
4. Jiraiya
and the 5th one....which I think is the right one...is...

Spoiler for The one who is inside the box:

LUFFY!!!!

its the real body of aizen as the aizen we know in bleach is a fake.

[yakumo-chan]

I have a feeling that:

1.Killer Bee always knew that Kisame is hiding in the Samehada..... Poor Kisame....

2.Tobi is a Good Boy...... I think Tobi is doing all of this for the Good Cause.....

3.Kabuto will dominate Tobi

[filthydani]

the body has something related to madara since kabuto said he hadnt told anyone, so its not jiraya, obito, danzo etc

i guess its either madaras real body, his brother, or... the first shinobi REAL six path of pain