(CR) Sousou no Frieren (Frieren: Beyond Journey's End)

[Twi]

Didn't Land also point out that she's the type not to use magic by mechanics but by emotion when she revealed she could use the binding spell on him in that alleyway.

[Shadow5YA]

He did.

Ubel also admitted that she can't cut through basic defense magic.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by ryllharu

Ubel simply understands magic on a more fundamental level than most of the cast. It's all about visualization first,

Completely wrong. At least try to use the same terminology as the source material.
It is about image, not visualization. It is not about what you see, but the image you can construct in your head.
Thus is no different than any other mages who also said the same word: "image". Hell, Ubel herself said so.
Stop twisting the words the show used to falsely proof your point. Image, has always been the only word used and been addressed as the fundamental of magic.
Ubel can do the thing she does because she follow a different set of logic and thus can project images in her head that other people can't. She follows a super primitive logic and disregard all theory and calculations. This entire process has nothing to do with visualization.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Ubel is simply the kind of genius who does impossible stuff simply because she doesn't know it's impossible, she doesn't have any deeper understanding of magic compared to anyone else. In terms of visualisation, Ubel simply sees the world differently than most people.

I don't think this is the right way to out it. It has nothing to do if she knows something is possible or not.
She the type that goes "why should I let *insert words here* bother me when it has nothing to do with scissors cutting"?
It isn't she can't see the magic instilled in Sense's hair or any other magic theory related stuff, just "that's not the point" to her.
So in her own words, it's how things "feel" to her. If she doesn't feel it matters, it completely doesn't matter when she cast her magic.
If anything her magic works more like the Seven Sages of Destruction, in which the magic functions on its own closed off internal logic and ignores everything else that's not involved with that internal rule.

[EroKing]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/FJ8-7LXa-8A

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She succeeded against Sense because Sense was unlucky her main spell falls right into Ubel's strike zone. Hair is meant to be cut. But Ubel couldn't defeat Wirbel, and she probably would not beat Denken either. And I think Fern would totally destroy her.

You're forgetting Übel likely has an entire bag of tricks she hasn't shown. We know she can copy magic if she can empathize with a person. She's obviously done it before, so she could know spells effective against them. Against Wirbel she prioritized learning his magic over defeating him. Yes, he could have killed her, but she's crazy enough to think it would be worth the risk.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kanon

You're forgetting Übel likely has an entire bag of tricks she hasn't shown. We know she can copy magic if she can empathize with a person. She's obviously done it before, so she could know spells effective against them. Against Wirbel she prioritized learning his magic over defeating him. Yes, he could have killed her, but she's crazy enough to think it would be worth the risk.

Ubel said herself that she wouldn't be a match for Wirbel or Denken. She may be a lot of things, but she's not a liar. In fact, she's been pretty honest about what she wants.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Kanon

You're forgetting Übel likely has an entire bag of tricks she hasn't shown. We know she can copy magic if she can empathize with a person. She's obviously done it before, so she could know spells effective against them. Against Wirbel she prioritized learning his magic over defeating him. Yes, he could have killed her, but she's crazy enough to think it would be worth the risk.

Having a lot of spells doesn't necessarily make you stronger. There's a reason Frieren forced Fern to only use Zoltraak in a fight. And Frieren herself doesn't use many spell in battle. The anime added a lot of stuff in the fight against the Frieren clone but Frieren actually only used three offensive spells: Zoltraak, Judradjim and Vollzanbel.

Besides, I don't think Ubel has any other useful offensive spells anyway. She started using Solganiel as soon as she learned it. If she had other useful shit, she would have used it.

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Besides, I don't think Ubel has any other useful offensive spells anyway. She started using Solganiel as soon as she learned it. If she had other useful shit, she would have used it.

A baseless assumption.

She sought to acquire and immediately started using sorganeil the moment she had it because her trademark spell isn't that long range compared to zoltraak or other elemental things the other mages use. It is perfectly compatible with her favorite spell.

We can make the assumption she has acquired other magic, because she knows perfectly well how her empathize-and-copy method works. She hasn't been on the mage exam circuit that long either. She got third class only two years ago. If her cutting spell works, why use something else?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ryllharu

If her cutting spell works, why use something else?

To improve her chances. Her cutting spell doesn't always work. It can't cut the basic barrier after all, which is what most mages use.

Originally Posted by ryllharu

We can make the assumption she has acquired other magic, because she knows perfectly well how her empathize-and-copy method works.

It doesn't feel like it's that easy. Wirbel was willing to share all his life experience with her, which is why she could copy his stuff. But I don't think most people would be willing to do that. She has been stalking Land for a while now and still can't copy his magic.

Overall, I think people are grossly overestimating Ubel. Her cutting spell is only truly effective in niche situations, and while her ability to copy spells sounds great on paper, in reality it's not that easy to use.

[Shadow5YA]

Ubel isn't the kind of person to pick up spells for pragmatic reasons like that.

I'd say Occam's Razor applies here and say that she picked up Sorganeil because she was interested, just like how she's interested in Land now.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Ubel isn't the kind of person to pick up spells for pragmatic reasons like that.

I'd say Occam's Razor applies here and say that she picked up Sorganeil because she was interested, just like how she's interested in Land now.

I'm with you there. She seems the type far more interested in what she likes and wants than what is necessary. Whatever other spells she has are likely ones she picked up because they interested her and not to cover for any weaknesses in her favorites.

When it comes to Land I am curious what is going on in her head. How much of it is her being interested in the clone spell? Certainly his clones suit her more than the duplicates that the monster created. Since his clones can speak which is important for her chatty combat style . Not sure how much I'm reading into her personal interest in Land himself.

[Thor's Hammer]

I don't think Ubel can even empathize with Land. From what we learned in the episode that revealed a bit of Land's character, part of the reason for his clone technique is that he doesn't like it when others are hurt because of him, which shows that his clone technique is more for minimizing damage to himself AND others, reducing the need to have people killed. I cannot see Ubel ever empathizing with this unless she stops being a cold-blooded killer. However much she is interested in Land's technique, I doubt it is anything she will acquire anytime soon.

[~Yami~]

I wonder if they will have fighting exam for the third round. If not, then we might assume Ubel is the strongest mage.
Maybe Frieren, Fern, or Denke can reveal some of Ubel weakness if they are fighting.

[Liddo-kun]

Burg: I have not been injured after becoming a first class mage.
Übel: allow me to introduce myself.

lol

seriously though.. I'm amazed at how calm Sense can sit in a room together with a person who can easily kill her. And she even disqualified this person. Good thing Übel did not get angry being disqualified.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Ubel said herself that she wouldn't be a match for Wirbel or Denken. She may be a lot of things, but she's not a liar. In fact, she's been pretty honest about what she wants.

Just because she's been honest with Land about what she wants doesn't mean she never lies. She did a pretty good job manipulating him into saving her against her clone.

There's a third test, it makes sense she'd want to keep some secrets or lie about her true abilities since there's a chance they may get pitted against each other next time.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Having a lot of spells doesn't necessarily make you stronger. There's a reason Frieren forced Fern to only use Zoltraak in a fight. And Frieren herself doesn't use many spell in battle. The anime added a lot of stuff in the fight against the Frieren clone but Frieren actually only used three offensive spells: Zoltraak, Judradjim and Vollzanbel.

Besides, I don't think Ubel has any other useful offensive spells anyway. She started using Solganiel as soon as she learned it. If she had other useful shit, she would have used it.

Having more spells gives you more options. They described magic battles as a game of rock paper scissors in this episode. Having all three would be highly beneficial.

I'm not saying Übel could beat them all for sure. I'm saying we just don't know and we can't take her words at face value. It could be she's only as strong as she's been presented, or she could be stronger. Again, we don't know.

I mean, the main character of this show is constantly suppressing her real power level so her enemies underestimate her. Why can't others do something similar?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Just because she's been honest with Land about what she wants doesn't mean she never lies. She did a pretty good job manipulating him into saving her against her clone.

There's a third test, it makes sense she'd want to keep some secrets or lie about her true abilities since there's a chance they may get pitted against each other next time.

We saw her fight with Wirbel, if she had more stuff up her sleeve, she'd have used it.

Having more spells gives you more options. They described magic battles as a game of rock paper scissors in this episode. Having all three would be highly beneficial.

Proficiency is a thing. Ubel being able to copy spells doesn't mean she'll be able to use them all competently in all situations.

Besides, having more options is not always a good thing. In the heat of the moment, it can freeze your decision making.

I mean, the main character of this show is constantly suppressing her real power level so her enemies underestimate her. Why can't others do something similar?

The same main character whose deceiving ways are said to be so off the beaten path that no one figured out what she's been doing for a 1000 years.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I wonder if they will have fighting exam for the third round. If not, then we might assume Ubel is the strongest mage.

Why would we assume something so obviously wrong? Her cutting spell only has niche utilization and a range of only 5 meters. And it can't even cut the basic defensive barrier that most mages use to defense themselves. Solganiel is more dangerous but she's not the only one who uses it. Wirbel does it too, and this spell also has its own share of limitations, like the fact you need to keep the enemy's entire body in sight to make it work.

I said half the mages who passed the second exam are stronger than Ubel.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Having more spells gives you more options. They described magic battles as a game of rock paper scissors in this episode. Having all three would be highly beneficial.

You don't necessarily want more options. Most mages focus on one or two spells, not because they can't learn more. Everyone can learn more spells, not just Ubel. They focus on one or two because this allows them to be more focused and efficient.

Ubel's ability to pick up spells by empathizing with others is a nice shortcut, but it's nothing groundbreaking. Even if you don't have this ability, you can still learn spells just fine. It will take a little more time but who cares.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Endscape

We saw her fight with Wirbel, if she had more stuff up her sleeve, she'd have used it.

she did not need to show more stuff up her sleeve, because she can already kill Wirbel during their encounter. She just decided not to. Land noticed she had the opportunity to kill.

[Kazu-kun]

Let's not forget Wirbel also had plenty of chances to kill her and decided not to. In fact, Wirbel got the drop on her first.