Extent of Aizen's Powers?

[kitten320]

There is no logic behind Aizen, end of story.

He can own anyone except Ichigo who is a main hero and needs to save the day. That's the only factor that stopps him from dominationg the world and a really dumb one too.

[Chiisai Kuma]

aizen is an anime villian. he dosent need logic, nor will he use it.

[ronin myael]

there's no extent to his powers. they are limitless. powers that can only be stopped by an equally limitless source, that of ichigo. he's the ultimate baddie whose actions can only be justified by his lust for power, nothing more. there's no deeper meaning to his aims, no dark tragic past to explain his nature. he's just pure evil, plain and simple. and evil, like in most stories about heroes and villains, always covets power and domination. that's aizen.

[shankss]

%0 Creativity
%80 Villain Survival chance for Story Purpose.
%20 "HAHA I.W.I.N." Button

One of the most useless and pathetic villains I've ever seen for a while.Maybe he was inspiring at the beginning when he revealed his true self (I dont remember if I got shocked by that actually) but his late-self was a total disappointment.He was standing there without any reason (except the ultimate 1942 world domination idealogy) just because...Ichigo was becoming extremely dull and boring...so he required a new power-up and mindless beast with infinite powers should've been sacrificed for him.

Too bad thou, former Aizen had a bit potential.He'd have proper reasons and impressive powers with a bit good writing.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by shankss

Maybe he was inspiring at the beginning when he revealed his true self (I dont remember if I got shocked by that actually) but his late-self was a total disappointment.He was standing there without any reason (except the ultimate 1942 world domination idealogy)

I don't know...Aizen's main goals have always been relatively consistent. He revealed to want to rule to world soon after he came out of the closet upon retreating to Hueco Mundo. He's also always shown interest in surpassing his limits as a shinigami from the moment he became the bad guy. Sure enough, those were the two things he tried to achieve until the very end.

Granted, plans for getting stronger and gaining world domination are hardly original goals for the big main bad guy. However, I think it could've worked better if Kubo wasn't so hellbent on trying to maintain Aizen's mysteriousness. (And yes, this is the trait he claims to be most appealing about him.) As a result Kubo made the mistake of creating a main villain in pursuit of the same typical unoriginal shonen goals--except he lacked the compelling background and/or the creative motivations viewers typically need in order to give a damn. Seriously, we've had Espada given more development in this regard. Tousen & Gin also got development time in the end. And even filler antagonists are given more time into exploring their history and motivations.

I know Kubo tried to make an attempt at fixing this somewhat at the very end of the arc (during Ichigo's talk w/ Urahara), but lets face it--it was a pretty, brief, vague, and unconvincing perspective. Besides, it definitely doesn't make up for all the missed opportunities to properly flesh out Aizen's character some more.

So while I personally love the guy, (albeit for all the wrong reasons) I could see why he would come off as especially uninteresting to many. And I have little faith Kubo will fix this later on in the series. Because the last time he was asked how he felt about the idea of exploring Aizen's past, he didn't seem too willing to consider it.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

there's no extent to his powers. they are limitless. powers that can only be stopped by an equally limitless source, that of ichigo.

There's a chance he's currently less powerful than he started out if his zanpakuto really did get destroyed.

Originally Posted by sayde

However, I think it could've worked better if Kubo wasn't so hellbent on trying to maintain Aizen's mysteriousness. (And yes, this is the trait he claims to be most appealing about him.) As a result Kubo made the mistake of creating a main villain in pursuit of the same typical unoriginal shonen goals--except he lacked the compelling background and/or the creative motivations viewers typically need in order to give a damn.

I think what Kubo did with Urahara is what he was going for with Aizen. Urahara is another major character whose early history we know almost nothing about, but people seem to find that intriguing about him. The problem is Aizen's not that subtle. He's a big, flashy villain. Unlike Urahara, his character doesn't seem to be hiding anything about himself (by the end of Deicide at least) so the lack of details about his past come off as something left out rather than something mysterious.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

There's a chance he's currently less powerful than he started out if his zanpakuto really did get destroyed.

Can you destroy a zanpakuto without killing the Shingami? I thought the sword was part of the soul?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by james0246

Can you destroy a zanpakuto without killing the Shingami? I thought the sword was part of the soul?

It's kinda unclear. Tousen carried the zanpakuto of his dead friend so it seems a zanpakuto (at least its physical sword form) can exist without the original owner. If the reverse is true then a shinigami can live even when his/her zanpakuto has been completely destroyed. But it could be as long as the shinigami lives, the zanpakuto can be restored.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think what Kubo did with Urahara is what he was going for with Aizen. Urahara is another major character whose early history we know almost nothing about, but people seem to find that intriguing about him. The problem is Aizen's not that subtle. He's a big, flashy villain. Unlike Urahara, his character doesn't seem to be hiding anything about himself (by the end of Deicide at least) so the lack of details about his past come off as something left out rather than something mysterious.

That may indeed be the case. (I've really got nothing to say against it to be honest.) But either way, regardless of how things came off in the end, I'd only continue to suggest that Aizen was not a character who benefited from an intentional lack of development as Kubo would like to believe.

Originally Posted by james0246

Can you destroy a zanpakuto without killing the Shingami? I thought the sword was part of the soul?

From what I understand, zanpakuto's are nothing more than a shinigami's spiritual power manifested into a physical form. So to destroy a zanpakuto permanently, one need only eliminate or seal away the source of a shingami's powers. (Their death is not necessarily the only way to accomplish that. For instance, piercing a shinigami's spiritual pressure points (the Saketsu & Hakusui) should do the deed. Or you can wish shinigami powers away via the hougyoku. Or you can use a zanpakuto's "final" technique.)

Anyways, once that's done, you can proceed to break the weapon and it won't be able to come back.

In Aizen's case, the destruction we saw his zanpakuto undergo was pretty much symbolic of the destruction of his shinigami powers. He lost both at the same time since his zanpakuto merged with him. Under normal circumstances though, I'd assume his zanpakuto wouldn't have withered away after losing his spiritual energy. The only major question I'm left wondering is what's to stop him from willing the hougyoku into giving him back the powers he's lost after he gets tired of sitting in that chair? I suppose Kubo's one answer, but is there anything else that could plausibly get in his way?

[ronin myael]

i agree that aizen should have been more developed not just as a villain but as a character in general. he has no background, no real reasons for being the way he is. at least with villains like madara or oro we got a bit of their past and what turned them "evil" so to speak. if kubo had bothered to make us understand him more then maybe he would have been more interesting or he would even have gained some sympathy from the fans. aizen started out as an intriguing character whose true nature and intentions were equally intriguing. but as the series progressed the less we understood him. by the time the KT arc started it was almost clear that he was nothing more than just a typical evil villain with an unquenchable desire for power and domination, and that's what disappointed me the most. i was kind of hoping that some part of himself would be revealed in the the turn the pendulum arc but it only raised more questions despite the fact that the roots of the vizards and hollowfication were explained. grimmjow and ulquiorra had more depth. to me, aizen is a failure as a villain and it's a shame because he had potential to become a good one.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by sayde

The only major question I'm left wondering is what's to stop him from willing the hougyoku into giving him back the powers he's lost after he gets tired of sitting in that chair? I suppose Kubo's one answer, but is there anything else that could plausibly get in his way?

The way Urahara explains it, the hougyoku rejected Aizen and no longer acknowledges him as its master. It's keeping him immortal, but it's not serving his will anymore. I'm thinking when Aizen escapes, he won't have the powers he did in Deicide

Originally Posted by ronin myael

i agree that aizen should have been more developed not just as a villain but as a character in general. he has no background, no real reasons for being the way he is. at least with villains like madara or oro we got a bit of their past and what turned them "evil" so to speak. if kubo had bothered to make us understand him more then maybe he would have been more interesting or he would even have gained some sympathy from the fans.

Mostly, I'd say your right. Aizen does come off as a "I will rule the world muwahahaha!" villain, but the end of Deicide kinda hinted it's not as simple as that. Aizen's words towards the end imply that he believes the Soul Society's king is undeserving of the position (he can't understand why someone of Urahara's intellect would be loyal). It also makes it seem like he may have genuinely believed that he'd a better ruler and thought it necessary to seize power. It didn't really reveal much, but it'd be interesting if Kubo ever revisits that subject. Maybe Aizen's exact motivations would be more fleshed out.

[Kallen4life]

Aizen can still be salvaged, seeing as how he was/is connected with the whole spirit king thing & Urahara .. and, well, he's alive


that half-assed thing about him being a lonely little boy too powerful for his own good (i.e. cliche & Stark rip-off) .. we can ignore that, pretend it never happened



my 2 problems are :
1) Espada .. why did he even make them (other then WW) + the fact that they were wasted so utterly and we never saw a hint that a VL (not even an arrancar VL) is supposed to be > captain
2) he used to own and be so cool with his broken illusion-shikai .. then hougyoku removes it (or he wishes it away) and that's supposed to make him stronger .. he basically degenerates into a stupid brute (and frankly, I didn't see that much a difference in raw power .. he already was very strong and fast pre-transformations .. the only obvious thing is the healing), lets everything hit him and falls prey to a kido he couldn't even see being cast .. and worse, he instantly expects to be godlike and unrivaled and can't seem to grasp the simple fact that Ichigo is able to damage him, keeps shouting out crap and making surprised faces when he keeps failing



if the fight with him was smarter (bankai ? the good guys working around his shikai ?), I could've forgiven a lot

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

The way Urahara explains it, the hougyoku rejected Aizen and no longer acknowledges him as its master. It's keeping him immortal, but it's not serving his will anymore. I'm thinking when Aizen escapes, he won't have the powers he did in Deicide.

Yeah. That's definitely what Urahara says, but it directly and purposely contradicts what Ichigo suggests later on. Of course, if these were real people we were referring to, I'd say it's safe to take Urahara's words over Ichigo's. But since it's Kubo who controls what comes out of Ichigo's mouth, I'm forced to give the guy some benefit to a doubt. To me, it's almost as if Kubo himself isn't too sure of which reason he'd like to stick with--which is why he presented the second explanation in the way that he did. Ultimately, Kubo left himself an easy way to bring Aizen back into the picture assuming he can't come up with a more creative way first.

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

my 2 problems are :
1) Espada .. why did he even make them (other then WW)

In Aizen's defense, he practically asked himself that same question. lol (PS: I suppose there was no need to feel obligated to mention and exclude WW. Afterall, he was never an Espada in the first place)

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

2) he used to own and be so cool with his broken illusion-shikai .. then hougyoku removes it (or he wishes it away)

Had he wished it away or if we could somehow prove the hougyoku removed it against his will, I'd be more accepting of that. But the grim reality of the situation is that he just didn't think to use it. So yes, he went from one of the most prepared, smartest, and cunning characters in the series to "a stupid brute". Put simply, the entire Deicide arc fell to crap for me the moment Isshin arrived and started pwning Aizen w/ fingerflicks for no apparent reason. In truth, I actually agree with so much of what you stated that it hurts which is why I'll end this post here.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by sayde

Yeah. That's definitely what Urahara says, but it directly and purposely contradicts what Ichigo suggests later on. Of course, if these were real people we were referring to, I'd say it's safe to take Urahara's words over Ichigo's.

Both explanations lead to the same result. Urahara's explanation is that the hougyoku abandoned Aizen when he showed weakness while Ichigo's suggest it was actually granting Aizen's subconscious wish to become normal. Actually, it seems to me Ichigo's explanation gives Aizen less of a chance to regain his hougyoku powers, since it means that the hougyoku finally understood all his stated goals are superficial and his true desire is to be normal (though Aizen himself doesn't seem to realize this). If that's the case, giving Aizen his powers back would actually be disobeying his will.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Actually, it seems to me Ichigo's explanation gives Aizen less of a chance to regain his hougyoku powers, since it means that the hougyoku finally understood all his stated goals are superficial and his true desire is to be normal (though Aizen himself doesn't seem to realize this). If that's the case, giving Aizen his powers back would actually be disobeying his will.

I'm not sure why you'd feel that way. Because it's not as if an individuals desires are set in stone and can't ever change over the course of time. Even an individuals "true desires" can be subject to change and hardly need to last forever--especially once that desire has been fulfilled.

So if the hougyoku really does still see Aizen as it's master, there should be nothing to stop Aizen from eventually coming up with a new desire for the hougyoku to try to act upon.