Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 43 Discussion/Poll

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

They had no intention of fighting anymore and were withdrawing, what he wanted to do was was a dick move any way you look at it.



Leave it to you and a few others to try to justify the unjustifiable. First it was genocide, apparently that was ok, and now it's trying to shoot people in the back who have no intention of fighting back.

Go rewatch MSG, the Zeong head was still firing back at Amuro, Zeheart and Fram weren't shooting back at all. Flit intended to shoot them in the back like a coward.

Nobody is justifying genocide. No where has Flit ever even killed people in cold blood. If Flit kills a person in cold blood then you'll have that argument but the show has already put him in that scenario and he couldn't pull the trigger. It'd be bad writing (like the show doesn't have enough already) for them to go back to it.

Again, this is not the first time we've seen people shoot at people that are running away. This is common in wartime and in several Gundam shows.

We don't need to list the dozen of times a gundam protagonist goes berserk and it takes someone on his side to say, "Dude, calm down, the fight's over" If your going to hold Flit to that standard I question where the hell you were with the other guys. In fact why didn't you complain when those Vagan soldiers were gunned down running away in many of the battles throughout the series. It's okay for them to do it but if Flit does it he's a madman?

I'm not trying to vilify Flit, the show has already done a good job of that.

Like what? Compared to Ezcelant and the others Flit has done nothing of the sort. You keep talking about him going off the deep end but where is it? Has Flit caused accidents to kill off people? No. Has he gunned down a defenseless (and I mean an actual non-combatant who surrenders?). No. In fact as his former subordinate deduced, it was all part of Flit's plan and it was a gamble he took. Even Seric realized it and took advantage of it. That's what a good commander does. He knows who to trust and to give his men the ability to make competent decisions on the field for the best result.

As it turned out with the Missile he told Arguos that the final decision was up to him who took advantage of the scenario. Flit was right, they couldn't afford to lose the battle. Did he get pissed off? No. Did he ordered the prisoners to get gunned down? No.

Using Rau as your example does not help your point, Rau was insane and wanted to destroy humanity, of course he wouldn't mind shooting defenseless soldiers. Why don't you use Kira and Athrun as examples instead? When Genesis fired, the Earth Alliance retreated and Zaft chased them down and started to shoot them as they were retreating. Kira and Athrun disabled all the ZAFT units and protected the EA saying that it wasn't fair to shoot those who had no intention of shooting back.

I was merely quoting him which is a true scenario in most war situations.

How many times do you see fleeing soldiers getting gunned down in movies, films, books, etc? You never complained when we see Vagan or other Federation soldiers take pot shots at actual disabled or fleeing units. I'm also pretty sure you never talked about it in the other Gundam series.

Why you bring up on all his crap about insane and GENESIS is beyond me

You guys can keep white knighting Flit all you want, the facts are there and they indicate FLit is not a bastion of morality and righteousness.

No we're just calling you out on your hypocrisy. You white wash Ezcelant even though it was clear the guy as a madman but when Flit yells out something all of a sudden you jump on it and make him out like Hitler. Nobody here is white knighting Flit. The guy's an old veteran who holds a grudge just like any other old veteran would in an almost endless war. That's what we see him as. You on the other hand seem to be trying to make him out like Hitler, Azeral, Zala when he's nowhere near that.

If Flit was truly as mad as you say he was then he would've told Kio to "shut it" and gone after Zeheart but it only took, "just stop fighting" for him to stand down after realizing the ceasefire. He also would've said, "no, use the missile regardless, damn it why haven't you used it yet?"

[ion475]

Well...

The good:
- Lunar Base battle is over, only for Ezelcant (sp?) going to send Lunar 2 onto Earth to cleanse all evil
- Albis and his whole plan, hard to not like him
- Frem killing the commander. He deserves it.
- Asemu not affected by any of the X-R BS and fights the only way he knows - Super Pairotto FTW

The meh:
- The battle b/t the 6 MSs. Okay, would have been good if not for a certain pilot just floating around doing nothing (more on that later)
- Girard finally gets kill. Waste 2 whole episodes on a character that is hard to sympathize with
- What's with Girard & Zeheart anyway? Other than the fact that Zeheart really don't want to lose any more comrades
- Girard X-R ability. Psychoframe overload is never good in any Gundam. It's not even as strong as Desil's power, though.

The bad:
- Flit...well, not necessarily a low blow. I mean, it's a war after all and as he learn the hard way, if you don't kill someone now, he/she will come back to haunt you later
- Girard's presence in general. Is she even necessary for any character development to happen?

The ugly:
- Kio. Where should I start? Being a pacifist does NOT mean you floating around BSing your own "Let's not fight and become friends because that's what we are suppose to be" ideal. Hack, he didn't even attempt to, let say, destroy the two remote weapons, tear apart some arms and legs. Instead all he does is fly around, thinking he can dodge everything, and somehow not even attacking the opponent brings peace.

If Flit was truly as mad as you say he was then he would've told Kio to "shut it" and gone after Zeheart but it only took, "just stop fighting" for him to stand down after realizing the ceasefire. He also would've said, "no, use the missile regardless, damn it why haven't you used it yet?"

Totally agree. He could have start shooting at the retreating troops from the Lunar Base despite the ceasefire, fire at Kio for trying to stop him, point the gun at Alcarus (sp?) and force him to use the Plasma Missiles...Flit didn't really age well, but he's still sane...

[Raysoul]

Episode really reminds me of Unicorn. Reina is like Loni.

I was like WHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAT? when I saw the Vagan moon going to Earth.

Seric is really a cool dude.

Kio, stop being a crybaby and be a badass pilot already! I still know you will.

And lastly, Fram, please don't die. Please. .__.

[webkid94]

What happened with Girard was pretty much in-line with the Gundam series. I just finished the original Mobile Suit Gundam, and it also pulled the "let's introduce character and kill them off next episode" stunt just like AGE. Really, it irks me but for what it's worth I liked Girard. If only the Gundam franchise would start to change a bit and rid us of these two episode only characters (like Shanalua, Girard and Lu) when they have FIFTY episodes to make better characters.

I DO NOT like Kio out of the three protagonists, he's just so naive and annoying and the thing is he KNOWS that and still does this stupid "let's understand each other!" speech. None of the three are any good, but I find myself more with Flit's ideals and less with Kio's, but then again I just don't like pacifists. Jesus Yamato was alright with his pacifism because he was kicking ass while preaching, Kio on the other hand is taking his preaching way too far.

I'm surprised papa Flit didn't go bonkers when he saw the Fawnfarsia: Dude, it's almost the same MS that your girlfriend died in. Would have been fun to see that though I would expect Fram to die if that were to happen. Seric is the new Grodek of this arc, damn someone with brains on this show is a rarity!

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by webkid94

I'm surprised papa Flit didn't go bonkers when he saw the Fawnfarsia: Dude, it's almost the same MS that your girlfriend died in. Would have been fun to see that though I would expect Fram to die if that were to happen. Seric is the new Grodek of this arc, damn someone with brains on this show is a rarity!

Flit didn't go crazy over Decil coming back. He became more of an irritant. Then Decil killed Woolf which made Asemu go Super Pilot.

Flit wants to win this war finally instead of it going on loosing more lives to it.

Asemu's effort of forcing a stalemate is too insignificant, Kio pleas of Understanding is on deaf ears.

[Bombo]

So intersting next week .

[Rising Dragon]

"Flit wants to win this war finally instead of it going on loosing more lives to it."

The way he wants to win this war is going to result in the deaths of millions of people. How is that ending it instead of losing more lives to it?

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

The way he wants to win this war is going to result in the deaths of millions of people. How is that ending it instead of losing more lives to it?

I've long since given up trying to figure out how such massive violations of logic can occur on a regular basis, but if you ask Flit, he'd probably say something to the effect of there being no lives lost if they start spamming the WMDs like the Vagan (the "un-persons" if you expand on a certain person's botched 1984 reference in a debate on this topic) didn't have the guts to.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Great episode. Nice to see Flit in action with the AGE-1. Girard's little break down was also pretty cool. X-Rounders are something else.

[SoranGTR]

Originally Posted by webkid94

I'm surprised papa Flit didn't go bonkers when he saw the Fawnfarsia: Dude, it's almost the same MS that your girlfriend died in. Would have been fun to see that though I would expect Fram to die if that were to happen. Seric is the new Grodek of this arc, damn someone with brains on this show is a rarity!

it has been more than 50 years since he saw Yurin die in the Farsia. Time enough for it to become nothing more than a distant memory to him.

And Seric has proven to be one of the most likeable supporting characters thus far, not as flashy as Woolf, but gets the job done regardless

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

I've long since given up trying to figure out how such massive violations of logic can occur on a regular basis, but if you ask Flit, he'd probably say something to the effect of there being no lives lost if they start spamming the WMDs like the Vagan (the "un-persons" if you expand on a certain person's botched 1984 reference in a debate on this topic) didn't have the guts to.

Some people make it a career to question every single detail in which nothing ever gets done. You bring up one point and then he'll say, "but what happens...."

However, when asked if they have a better option they never do because they can't come up with one.

In any case though killing Ezcelant isn't going to end the war since he's passing the reins onto someone else. This complicates things and when your dealing with a fanatic population there's not much you can do to reason them. Even in the Pacific war the Japanese didn't stand down until their Emperor told them to in the face of 2 nuclear strikes.

Who knows? Maybe the EXA will be the key to ending the war by curing the Vagans.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Some people make it a career to question every single detail in which nothing ever gets done. You bring up one point and then he'll say, "but what happens...."

However, when asked if they have a better option they never do because they can't come up with one.

Sure they can. They just don't want to; there's a big difference between the two.

Who knows? Maybe the EXA will be the key to ending the war by curing the Vagans.

The Vagans are just one side of the problem here. Both sides are in desperate need of detox, vaccines, and therapy. The Vagan may have started this mess, but the Federation is just as bad as they are now in terms of not stopping until the other side is dead regardless of the consequences.

[Yusei Fudo]

Originally Posted by Liquidzero

oh emily you won in the end, but did you really win?

I swear Emily was just like a "back-up" to Flit. I mean why else would Flit go remembering Yurin in Season 2 and he still be crazy over exterminating Vagan?

I swear if Flit somehow saw Yurin come back to life or something, he would have abandoned his family and gone cheating =w=

[Rising Dragon]

Better question: why are you people so convinced that he's not in love with Emily? The show's made it clear that he's got a LOT of issues with the Vagans and that it's not just because of Yurin.

He had the flashback of her when fighting Desil because it's personal in regards to Desil. But Desil is dead and Flit's anger is against ALL of the Vagans, not just Desil.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Better question: why are you people so convinced that he's not in love with Emily? The show's made it clear that he's got a LOT of issues with the Vagans and that it's not just because of Yurin.

He had the flashback of her when fighting Desil because it's personal in regards to Desil. But Desil is dead and Flit's anger is against ALL of the Vagans, not just Desil.

People keep forgetting that he watched his mother die in a Vagan attack when he was just a kid. Yurin just added to the already negative experience he had with Vagans. There's also Don Boyage, Grodek, Woolf...

[Kuroi Hadou]

Turing the discussion around, nothing about the second and third generations would have changed if Flit had hooked up with Yurin instead of Emily except Asemu's hair color. At least by dying Yurin served a plot purpose apart from being a pair of ovaries.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

People keep forgetting that he watched his mother die in a Vagan attack when he was just a kid. Yurin just added to the already negative experience he had with Vagans. There's also Don Boyage, Grodek, Woolf...

Exactly. I know that Emily and Romary got shafted pretty badly as far as development in the actual show goes, but if you take into account supplementary material like the game and the Wedding Eve drama track, Flit honestly loves Emily and his family. And it's been a long friggin' time since Yurin's death, he's had plenty of time to get over that particular aspect, especially with Yurin's murderer dead.

[Revolutionist]

I disagree, I think if he hadn't lost Yurin he wouldn't have gone genocidal.

Do you guys think Asemu would have turned out the way he did had Zeheart used Romary as a tool and gotten her killed? I mean, we are shaped by our environment and past experiences quite a lot. Negative experiences will certainly affect how you view certain things and people.

[LightningZERO]

Meh episode. For the episode title Triple Gundam, the Gundams barely did anything and the fight was so slow.

Someone please kill Kio. You can uphold your no kill policy but at least please disable your opponent first before doing the preaching.

Girard is a waste of two episodes and only serve to make Zeheart looks good. Oh and so it's Vagan spies again? Good job~

Seric is awesome. Holmes of the battlefield!

Flit is awesome. I love how he put the fear of God in Fram

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I disagree, I think if he hadn't lost Yurin he wouldn't have gone genocidal.

How do you figure? Flit was already wanting to destroy the Unknown Enemy since the start of the series because of his mother's death and the destruction of the colony they lived on. It drove every action he'd taken from then until the Gundam was built, and after all the way up until Yurin's death. If anything, Flit still would have turned out the way he did, but Yurin getting stuffed into the fridge just sped things up a bit.

Do you guys think Asemu would have turned out the way he did had Zeheart used Romary as a tool and gotten her killed? I mean, we are shaped by our environment and past experiences quite a lot. Negative experiences will certainly affect how you view certain things and people.

There's a fundamental flaw in your comparison here; Asemu's history up until he met Romary was far different from Flit's up until he met Yurin. Asemu wouldn't have turned out exactly like he is now if Zeheart was more like his brother than anyone is comfortable with, but I doubt he would have gone off the deep-end like Flit did simply because Flit was already dangling off the edge at the very start. And even then, Asemu had been classmates and "friends" with Zeheart for more than a few chance meetings before the ruse was up. Desil was someone Flit met for a few minutes and then skipped off for a while only to come back for a few more minutes, rinse repeat.