Character Discussion - Kallen

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

here begins my long ass speculation about the end of the corrent situation with kallen and suzaku
warning : long post is long

Hmm, nicely written. Personally I'd say that it depends on what they want to do with the story and so on. If they're going to go the Eureka 7/Gundam Seed-route (meaning that at some point, we'll have at least a faction of the enemies of the protagonist joining his faction/side), sorta, then Kallen'll most likely somehow avoid being refrained (or the situation'll be made so that she isn't, sorta). If they're going more along the Gundam Wing or even Zeta Gundam route however (meaning that there is no common joinage of forces and the people in the series on the various sides remains enemies), then she'll most likely be refrained...

[Aquaman OS]

I just realized something. Everyone is assuming Kallen getting refrained will be a horrible and traumatic experience that will have her demanding Suzaku's death.

Now that would make sense I agree. However people said the same about

Suzaku forsaking Japan and turning into a bloodthirsty beast who wants to kill anyone in his way to make Britannia rule the world because he hates the world because it took Euphie from him. Wrong, all that happened is that he became slightly more serious and stopped caring about the moral high ground, but still is working to better Japan and still doesn't seem to enjoy killing anymore than he did in season 1.

Nunnally always knew about Zero, supported him completely and hated Britannia just as much if not more than Lelouch did and was always secretly rooting him on from the sidelines. Also wrong. Nunnally had no clue about Zero until ep 6 of this season and didn't support him and despite all its done to her doesn't really hate Britannia at all.

Cornelia blames Zero for Euphie's death and her number one goal is killing Lelouch in revenge. Once again, wrong. Cornelia targeted Geass and unlike the majority of the cast actually seems to understand Lelouch and doesn't blame him for Euphie.

Just pointing that out. The characters don't always take the logical route one would expect them too. Kallen might just brush of the refrain and have her relationship with Suzaku remain the same.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I just realized something. Everyone is assuming Kallen getting refrained will be a horrible and traumatic experience that will have her demanding Suzaku's death.

Now that would make sense I agree. However people said the same about

Suzaku forsaking Japan and turning into a bloodthirsty beast who wants to kill anyone in his way to make Britannia rule the world because he hates the world because it took Euphie from him. Wrong, all that happened is that he became slightly more serious and stopped caring about the moral high ground, but still is working to better Japan and still doesn't seem to enjoy killing anymore than he did in season 1.

Nunnally always knew about Zero, supported him completely and hated Britannia just as much if not more than Lelouch did and was always secretly rooting him on from the sidelines. Also wrong. Nunnally had no clue about Zero until ep 6 of this season and didn't support him and despite all its done to her doesn't really hate Britannia at all.

Cornelia blames Zero for Euphie's death and her number one goal is killing Lelouch in revenge. Once again, wrong. Cornelia targeted Geass and unlike the majority of the cast actually seems to understand Lelouch and doesn't blame him for Euphie.

Just pointing that out. The characters don't always take the logical route one would expect them too. Kallen might just brush of the refrain and have her relationship with Suzaku remain the same.

One flaw in your argument. Each of the above mentioned characters (barring Nunally about whom I don't agree with about being wronged everywhich way by the Empire), have gone on vendettas and will stop at nothing to hold the one who ruined their lives responsible.

For Cornelia that anger was directed at the Geass and the Cult. Likely because she uncovered the truth.

For Suzaku that anger was directed at Lelouch because he only knew part of the truth.

For Jeremiah the same applies as Suzaku.

For Kallen it will be the same, Refrain is what she hates most, she will despise the person who put it in front of her.

So she may brush it off, but she will not remain on similar terms with Suzaku.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by amjzz

It seems lelouch just forgot about kallen...as far as he knows she was captured by suzaku...he doesnt know that she is with nunnally.

I wonder when is he going to rescue her, after all she is the best pilot of the black knights...and one of the few people in the order that knows that he is zero...

In episode 11, when Lelouch mentions returning to Japan, he does so in the same statement about the "problem with Kallen," indicating that the two are related. However, he did not anticipate while Sayako was pretending to be him to load him down with such a demanding schedule. Despite this, however, in the extended preview for episode 13, it mentions something to the effect of "preparations for rescuing Kallen." I think this may be referring to the anti-SakuraDite system that he was installing in the train system of Tokyo; the fact that it helped him subdue Jerimiah seems to have been simply a fortunate coincidence. Now, while I admit that setting up the train system to apparently knock out power to all of Tokyo is a little extreme to save one person, it would make sense if rescuing Kallen was only one objective in a larger plan (like getting back the Guren for one thing).

However, Shirley being killed certainly put those plans on hold, but I don't think that's the only reason he put his plans for rescuing Kallen on hold. It seems that his preparations in Tokyo are not yet complete, while with Jeremiah, he suddenly knew the exact location of the Geass Cult, which could move at any time, so any military commander would have to make a move on the option that may have only a small window of opportunity versus the option that is not yet ready.

Just my two cents on the debate.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Aquaman OS:
Maybe so, though it would all depend on exactly how much she'd hold it against Suzaku for refraining her. But you're right that the characters - or maybe rather the story - don't always follow logic, so... Still, it wouldn't be strange for Kallen to hate Suzaku for it either.

[Aquaman OS]

Like I said it's logical that she would, but the characters in this series are very unpredictable.

[mash11]

I think she will be "saved" by someone, I am just hoping it is not who I am thinking it will be.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Like I said it's logical that she would, but the characters in this series are very unpredictable.

But the characters have been logical in whom they've come to blame and hate for everything. I do not see any unpredictabilities in what has befallen the aforementioned characters. Cornelia, Suzaku, and for a time Jeremiah, were out for revenge on the people who took what was precious to them.

Originally Posted by mash11

I think she will be "saved" by someone, I am just hoping it is not who I am thinking it will be.

Who?

[mash11]

I think the only person capable of convincing her to abandon the black knights as well as have enough pull to upgrade her gurren is shneizel.

[morbosfist]

Schneizel may be charismatic, but he's not that charismatic.

[mash11]

I do not think we have seen the extents of his capabilities yet. I mean he actually got nina to work for him, that has to count for something

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by mash11

I think the only person capable of convincing her to abandon the black knights as well as have enough pull to upgrade her gurren is shneizel.

Schneizel's back in Dallas. Doubt he'd be there in Area 11 to do anything. And I don't think anyone can convince Kallen to switch sides with anything short of the Emperor's geass (which is useless now because of the Canceller).

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by mash11

I think the only person capable of convincing her to abandon the black knights as well as have enough pull to upgrade her gurren is shneizel.

The Guren'll most likely be upgraded because Lloyd, our favourite Knightmare Otaku, has been playing around with it... (he has access to Schneizel's cash after all AFAIR, so he's free to pull of that if he wants, no questions asked from Schneizel) . Anyway, I can't see Schneizel coming. The most likely one to interfere is Nunnally if anyone...

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by mash11

I do not think we have seen the extents of his capabilities yet. I mean he actually got nina to work for him, that has to count for something

Nina's insane and obsessed with Euphy. The full extent of that conversation probably went like so: "Euphy would have wanted you to." Kallen is an entirely different matter.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by mash11

I do not think we have seen the extents of his capabilities yet. I mean he actually got nina to work for him, that has to count for something

How is convincing Nina to work for him something that amazing, really? She was sort of on Britannia's side from the start after all and working with him is her best long-term shoot at Zero after all - plus of course, with Nina, you only need to invoke Euphie's name...

[mash11]

I was merely joking about that, but I think he actually can pull it off, think about it, she hate refrain so much she might feel some gratitude towards him for rescuing her, that is but the first step. I think that will be the begining of the rifting of the BK.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by mash11

I was merely joking about that, but I think he actually can pull it off, think about it, she hate refrain so much she might feel some gratitude towards him for rescuing her, that is but the first step. I think that will be the begining of the rifting of the BK.

Still quite difficult to see it coming. I suppose she could be grateful to Schneizel if that were to happen, but... At the same time, we've got to remember that she doesn't have any positive feelings against Britannia and it's going to take a lot to change that, indeed...

[morbosfist]

Jumping from grateful to switching sides is like trying to clear the Grand Canyon in a Segway. The only way it's happening is if Lelouch does something to forsake her trust in him. It would take quite the action for that to take place.

[Aporia]

I brought this up in a different thread before I saw this one, which is a better place for it.

Is there any time that we know of where Kallen is happy for more than a few moments?

Also, has there been any talk in this thread about what Kallen's piloting of Guren (pre R2-upgrade) tells us about her character? I didn't notice this for a long time but it seems like her Knightmare is the only one which is built specifically to kill pilots. I think Jemimah is the only one who manages to eject before their cockpit gets fused to the frame. I'd appreciate a link or a general idea of where to go, since this thread is so huge.

Thanks!

[morbosfist]

Though Kallen has killed her fair share, I'd say about half of the pilots she's fought have managed to eject successfully (Guilford, the Glaston Knights, maybe a few others). As for her mech, I'd say it's built more to be a one-hit wonder than a killing machine. Once an enemy is caught, they're done for.