School Rumble manga (raw discussion only)

[biomy]

my biggest problem is that, i understand that yakumo is all a great sister and all, but tenma can handle her own social problems and doesn't need someone being a goddamn hero for her, and according to the implications of 209, she's gonna do some takedowns blahblahblah what a great sister

but as joey wheeler said

I SURE WISH YUGI WERE HERE HOW CAN I PROVE MY INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT HIS HELP

...in america

[chubbyphil]

Originally Posted by biomy

my biggest problem is that, i understand that yakumo is all a great sister and all, but tenma can handle her own social problems and doesn't need someone being a goddamn hero for her, and according to the implications of 209, she's gonna do some takedowns blahblahblah what a great sister

but as joey wheeler said

WHERE IS YUGI HOW CAN I PROVE MY INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT HIS HELP

...in america

Well, it's pretty much a known fact that in SR, Yakumo and Tenma's roles are usually reversed. Yakumo always acts like how an older sister would, and Tenma would act like the younger sister. Of course, the older sister has to step up when the little sister needs help. Even when she doesn't ask for it.

[-Ajax-]

Originally Posted by biomy

my biggest problem is that, i understand that yakumo is all a great sister and all, but tenma can handle her own social problems and doesn't need someone being a goddamn hero for her, and according to the implications of 209, she's gonna do some takedowns blahblahblah what a great sister

but as joey wheeler said

I SURE WISH YUGI WERE HERE HOW CAN I PROVE MY INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT HIS HELP

...in america

LOL i love that Joey Wheeler quote...oh god what a terrible VA... in america.

You're not the first person this issue, i remember on a separate forum a member mentioning how Eri should solve this most recent problem (with tenma) on her own and not have Akira or any other friends jump in and offer advice or "fix" anything as mediators. I have to agree, if the characters can solve these issues on their own its only going to make them grow as people, and become more apt to cope with future conflicts. As for what Kobayashi cares about... well we will find out.

[chubbyphil]

Originally Posted by -Ajax-

You're not the first person this issue, i remember on a separate forum a member mentioning how Eri should solve this most recent problem (with tenma) on her own and not have Akira or any other friends jump in and offer advice or "fix" anything as mediators. I have to agree, if the characters can solve these issues on their own its only going to make them grow as people, and become more apt to cope with future conflicts. As for what Kobayashi cares about... well we will find out.

But this is a manga, not real life. You have to involve other characters to make it more interesting. Don't get me wrong, this whole conflict between Eri and Tenma is interesting and fun to read. After awhile though, you need to have the other characters in the storyline as well. Otherwise, it can become boring.

I don't know about you, but I certainly miss the Hanai vs. Harima moments. They were hilarious. Don't forget, this is a love/comedy.

[bubkent]

Originally Posted by biomy

my biggest problem is that, i understand that yakumo is all a great sister and all, but tenma can handle her own social problems and doesn't need someone being a goddamn hero for her, and according to the implications of 209, she's gonna do some takedowns blahblahblah what a great sister

but as joey wheeler said

I SURE WISH YUGI WERE HERE HOW CAN I PROVE MY INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT HIS HELP

...in america

Well, it's always interesting to watch Eri and Yakumo duke it off. Besides, it's more interesting than just watching Tenma get bullied and have her do nothing about it.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by bubkent

Well, it's always interesting to watch Eri and Yakumo duke it off. Besides, it's more interesting than just watching Tenma get bullied and have her do nothing about it.

Anytime Eri and Yakumo meets, sparks fly and people pay attention.

[-Ajax-]

Originally Posted by chubbyphil

But this is a manga, not real life. You have to involve other characters to make it more interesting. Don't get me wrong, this whole conflict between Eri and Tenma is interesting and fun to read. After awhile though, you need to have the other characters in the storyline as well. Otherwise, it can become boring.

I don't know about you, but I certainly miss the Hanai vs. Harima moments. They were hilarious. Don't forget, this is a love/comedy.

I know what you mean, but i think if Kobayashi was planning to develop Eri further it might happen without the help of her friends for best results. I can imagine other scenarios where her friends would intervene but it would feel as if Eri couldn't do anything on her own, so what lies on the scales is comedy vs character development.

Then again Kobayashi can do whatever he wants lol, he could make a scenario with both elements.

I also miss those Hanai/Harima moments, they were hilarious

[biomy]

Originally Posted by wontaek

Anytime Eri and Yakumo meets, sparks fly and people pay attention.

i am not surprised, as most of the readers also read some other lame weeaboo manga

but the debates i'm witnessing here could be a spinoff chapter in the phoenix wright games

all that's necessary is OBJECTION

and i'm not about to be polite about my observations, and apparently he don't know me too well, but he'll find out, from the biomy nests cartel

ruff ruff

[-Ajax-]

Originally Posted by Freeter

So they're placed in yet another convenient situation where it's just the two of them alone. This is it. If Eri doesn't break the tunnel vision then we're definitely headed for another reset.

It couldn't possibly be that easy to break the tunnel vision yet... i think Harima still has to change his image of Eri, i don't think he would fall for anyone else too quickly. At the very least it could start the line of events that would lead to the tunnel vision breaking. I think we may be in for another reset though, but thats purely just a guess lol

Even though she was joking, could this be the prelude to the upcoming Flute x Glasses war?

hmm it would be interesting at least

Niiiiice. For some reason I think Asou is better off with Sara than he was with Mikoto.

Same, even though Sara is a nun...i think she may have a thing for him, but it looks like he isn't over Mikoto yet...

[risingstar3110]

HI everyone, back after so long ....

Stay away 20 miles from animesuki for those last few days because afraid of spoilers ^^

Great Chapter 209 and b47. The only thing that I expect more is: Jin put another20 pages in each . Now have to wait for another week for 210 T_____T

HMmm i hope chapter 210 will be different from all our guess. I really wish Tenma aplogised be4 Eri going on date with Harima. But well, if they all confront each other like this in next chapter, everything will be cleared and we have less manga to enjoy -____-

About the chapter b47, one thing that i am wondering. Is Imadori trying to help Ichijou become idol so she will stop follow him? :P

[canza]

o m g.....please start loving Eri, Harima........

It seems Tenma will go find Eri and then.............bam.........

[risingstar3110]

It is no fair, Eri never jump in and mess up Tenma's date with Karasuma >_<
*praying* I hope it not gonna happen... i hope it not gonna happen... i hope....

Hmm no one discuss about this chapter yet? 0_< Or what'll happen in next chapter seemed too obvious?
Wondering what yakumo plan to do? I don't think she will come to mess things up ( so un-Yakumo like), and since she always have a clear view in everything during the story ( except her own problem with Harima :P)

[OMGItsTehSARS]

I don't Tenma can mess it up...yet. She doesn't even kno where they are, that itself can take another set-up chapter sadly.

Leaving Yakumo alone in the house means ghost girl appearance? dur........

[riddle]

I don't Tenma can mess it up...yet. She doesn't even kno where they are, that itself can take another set-up chapter sadly.

Everything is possible in Sukuran. They might get bump into each other in some place and Tenma can make things worse with the affection from Harima to her. I really hope this won't happen....

Overall i really like this chapter especially the quote from Eri "I guess you're right" after eating the croquettes together....

@RisingStar: The Idol Karen is just in his dream. Imadori might think that Karen thought him as baggage after that dream and therefore he asked her to brought him like that... I bet Karen didn't understand it at all but she still doing that.

[-Ajax-]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

HMmm i hope chapter 210 will be different from all our guess. I really wish Tenma aplogised be4 Eri going on date with Harima. But well, if they all confront each other like this in next chapter, everything will be cleared and we have less manga to enjoy -____-

About the chapter b47, one thing that i am wondering. Is Imadori trying to help Ichijou become idol so she will stop follow him? :P

The thing is we can't really guess whats in store for 210, there are tons of possibilities, i mean who predicted that Eri and Harima would never even walk into that oyster bar at all?
All i can imagine is the 209 was the set up for 210, something that will probably involve Tenma somehow. Sure in real life it would be hard for a person to just walk out in the middle of a storm and just find the person they're looking for...but this is manga

You also have to remember that Tenma really has nothing to apologize for, Eri has to realize she is treating Tenma unfairly, i think this will play a part next chapter as well.

Originally Posted by canza

o m g.....please start loving Eri, Harima........

It seems Tenma will go find Eri and then.............bam.........

I wish Harima would love Eri too, but the events that lead to that happening are the best part

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

It is no fair, Eri never jump in and mess up Tenma's date with Karasuma >_<
*praying* I hope it not gonna happen... i hope it not gonna happen... i hope....

Hmm no one discuss about this chapter yet? 0_< Or what'll happen in next chapter seemed too obvious?
Wondering what yakumo plan to do? I don't think she will come to mess things up ( so un-Yakumo like), and since she always have a clear view in everything during the story ( except her own problem with Harima :P)

Tenma isn't willingly trying to mess anything up for Eri, maybe when Tenma runs into Eri and Harima walking along she might even back off... it would be really sad to see that though...poor Tenma

Yakumo? Well its hard to read her eyes in that picture...


I don't know what to say really, they don't look aggressive but more worried...and a little determined.

Idol Karen... that was funny, probably my favorite part of b47, i want more Imadori lol hes always good for a laugh, and it looks like he might be growing as a character lately thanks to Ichijou.

[Marsala]

Originally Posted by -Ajax-

(Lol are you NeoSapien on StopTazmo? )

Yep. Also, agreed on all counts with your post above.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

This is can't be called a shipping debate, unless your only real reason for condemning Eri is because you want to justify another, alternate pairing. But you're more sensible than that, right?

Of course. I'm arguing mainly for how I perceive the characters, beyond any shipping concerns. However, this can still be called a shipping debate because it focuses on shipping issues.

Also, this is getting too long, so perhaps we should agree to disagree after this exchange.

It actually shows that Eri is motivated by her desire not to lose Harima, because she enjoys being with him. The two things are not mutually exclusive - you can worry about losing the people you love. We've shown fairly strong proof that indicates that Eri loves Harima for who he is, instead of simply for the reason of "winning". If you are unable to address that issue directly, I don't see how you have a case.

Irrelevant. Eri loves Harima, regardless of whether she is feeling secure or insecure in her relationship with him. In the absence of a rival, Eri works to build a relationship with Harima to get closer to him. In the presence of a rival, Eri works to protect her relationship with Harima. In both cases, she is genuinely interested in the relationship. If you want to support the claim that Eri has "changed her approach", then the burden of proof is on you to show that Eri has no romantic interest in Harima and that her sole reason for pursuing him to outdo Tenma. If you are unable do that, then your argument is not valid.

That's a false dilemma. Eri can be genuinely interested in Harima and still change her approach because her pride has been hurt by finding out the truth about Harima's feelings.

Eri never really has a confrontation with Tae, who has the good sense and insight to understand Eri's situation. Tenma and Yakumo, however, have always been shielded by their lack of awareness - they're allowed to trample all over Eri's feelings, simply because they are oblivious to her plight. It's not pride that causes these conflicts in the first place - they're the result of a lack of sensitivity. Eri's pride makes the situation more difficult, and by overcoming her pride, she resolves the situation - but the root problem, found in Tenma and Yakumo's insensitivity, is never addressed, so neither of Eri's rivals actually grow, in that regard.

Eri did have a confrontation with Tae, but Tae was understanding and easy-going enough to defuse the situation. And Yakumo has never been insensitive; she realized what was going on when she saw the bandages on Eri's fingers. It is true that either Eri's pride or Tenma's cluelessness will have to give very soon.

I disagree strongly here. I'd say that Yakumo doesn't know either of them nearly as well as she thinks she does - which is part of the problem that seems to be developing here.

In 206, we see Yakumo shaken briefly, when the girls decide to put up the Eri and Harima dolls together. She reassures herself by saying that Harima will be the same always... forever. Now, perhaps you agree with her, given the fact that Harima seems nearly unwavering in terms of his tunnel vision - in which case that scene would simply demonstrate how well she knows him. But in my mind, that statement rings of a challenge: Yakumo may desire to have her vision of Harima to be constant and unchanging - but it isn't. From what I've seen, Harima has the potential within him to grow as a character - and he's showing it more than ever as of late, in his relationship with Eri. Ch. 209 is an excellent example of how he's softening up to her.

I do agree with Yakumo that Harima isn't the kind of person to let his heart waver, just as I agree with Tenma in 209 that Eri is a good person. So if Harima does waver, it's probably a mistake that will be corrected by the end of the story just as Eri's failure to live up to Tenma's expectations will be corrected.

Set aside the Oudou fanfics for a second. You're right to assume that the male and female leads will end up together. But who is that male lead, and who is that female lead? Now, if you claim that the main protagonist is first main character to be introduced, then that would be Tenma - and her story is about getting together with Karasuma (who is the first main male character to be introduced). If you want to claim that the main protagonist is the character around whom the events and conflicts in the story are centred, or the character who recieves the greatest amount of character development, then that would be Eri - and her story is about getting together with Harima. You'll have an extremely hard time proving that Harima recieves more focus as a character than either of these two female leads.

Harima is the male lead. That is indisputable. Karasuma may have appeared first, but he was clearly never the male lead even in volume 1.

Tenma is the female lead. She was definitely the female lead in the beginning, and KJ still considered her the female lead as recently as chapter 200.

Eri is - this is a little controversial - the rival. And like most rival characters, she steals the show. She, not Karasuma, is the biggest threat to Oudou. Karasuma is mainly a plot device to make Tenma seem out of reach for Harima, but Eri has received an enormous amount of genuine character development to make her into a credible rival of Tenma for Harima's affections. And maybe she will win. IMO that's why Eri has been so prominent recently - to build up to the climax.

Of course, your also completely ignoring the fact that Tenma wants to be with Karasuma. Eri would be doing Tenma a disservice if she tried to pair Tenma and Harima up, given that Tenma wants to be with Karasuma. It's surprising that Yakumo seems to have glossed over this point, somewhere in formulating her master plan on "How Harima should be".

I was referring to a totally hypothetical scenario at the end of the manga that assumes Tenma will move on beforehand. I don't put a lot of stock in Tenma's relationship with Karasuma because he's just a glorified plot device; Karasuma mainly exists to be mysteriously close to and distant from Tenma while outdoing Harima in every way and making his pursuit of Tenma seem futile. It would be deus ex machina for the love polygon to be resolved by Karasuma declaring himself; Tenma should choose between Karasuma and Harima and Harima should choose between Tenma and Eri without Karasuma's direct input.

Also, Yakumo has been presented as a very intelligent, perceptive, sympathetic and well-meaning character. If she thinks that Tenma and Harima would be a good couple. she's probably right.

Do we really know what Harima's current manga is about? Why is this new manga big trouble?

Well, judging by Tenma's reading of the lines in 207, I'm guessing that it's another variation on Harima's own Tenma/Harima fanfiction. This could be a problem if Harima and Eri began dating and Eri found out that Harima was still writing about Tenma. But it's only a potential problem.

I don't recall Eri using the words "friends-only" or anything that implied that idea. More script writing from you, I suppose?

"That's weird. Why does he get along with her better than me?" None of Eri's thoughts said anything about Harima being more attracted to Tenma than to her. Eri didn't worry about that possibility until 205, and even then she rejected it because Eri thought that there was much more to her than Tenma.

Actually we do have enough information to state what Yakumo's feelings for Harima are - that's what Ch.206 is all about. She tells Sara with a perfectly calm face that her feelings for Harima aren't "like that". Harima is just an idol or symbol that she is trying to preserve as it is - symbolized in part by the fact that she's working with dolls.

That's absurd. There have been tons of moments that imply Yakumo has deeper feelings for Harima. 206 only shows that Yakumo isn't willing to pursue them - if they do exist, which isn't entirely certain. I completely disagree with the image of Yakumo as an evil puppetmaster trying to retard Harima's development for her own satisfaction.

Oh, and what do you do on a true date? I always believed that the only requirement is that it involves a meeting of two people, be it casual or formal. I never knew that it was so restrictive.

If the definition is that broad, it loses its significance.

Unless part of her image is to play the role of a lovestruck girl? Doesn't Mikoto laugh at the image of Eri being actually lovestruck as absurd, just before she encounters Harima confessing to Eri, early in the manga?

Eri seemed pretty sincere. I doubt that she would be so emotional just to present a false image.

Oh? How is it implied? Care to show me?

In order for your statement to be valid, you would have to demonstrate that Eri used to frequently go on dates. You attempted to do so in your earlier reply, but I disproved that in my last post.

Again, you didn't address the issue at stake - if Eri is going on a date, then why is she asking her friends to come along? Isn't it more likely that she was just getting a ride somewhere?

He resembles Harima in the fact that he is male and has black hair, although I hardly see how the issue is relevant.

I find it strange that you seem to be unable to grasp what socializing means. Harima socializes with girls, too. As does Asou.

It's funny how you apply your prejudice to Imadori and Harry, though. After the Cultural Festival Play, Imadori turns down offers to dance when he hears Karen sing. Likewise, Harry seems to have a fairly strong friendship with Tougou, and he shows genuine concern for Lala as well. I think it's unfair to simply call them superficial, just because the stereotypes associated with being popular.

By the way, I've noticed that you've sidestepped certain issues in your reply. Aren't you going to address Tenma's conduct during the pool episode? Or do the exact same accusations that you level against Eri hold true for Tenma, as well?

Okay, so I can't prove that Eri used to go on a lot of dates, though the (paraphrased) sidetext, "Sawachika Eri, experienced in love... or used to be" in 195-198 implies that Eri has a lot of experience in something vaguely related to love. My overall point was that Eri originally had a shallow, superficial attitude to interacting with the opposite sex. She was a lot like a female version of Imadori, who until recently tried to ignore poor Karen and went out on lots of dates with girls who meant nothing to him. Imadori is slowly growing out of that, but that sort of behavior was definitely a negative. Tenma does flirt with guys on occasion, but never to the same extent as Imadori used to go out with girls and Eri may have gone out with guys.

She doesn't think that Harima is pursuing Tenma. She thinks that Tenma is pursuing Harima. That's the same situation with Yakumo - if Yakumo is pursuing Harima, then Harima is fair game. If Harima is pursuing Yakumo, then Eri demonstrated that she wants no part in it.

I can't believe that Eri still hasn't realized that Harima is pursuing Tenma. Yakumo all but spelled it out for her. Tenma pursuing Harima would not explain why Harima went to the shrimp party.

In 152, Harima thought that she was blushing because she was afraid that he would take advantage of her. He didn't think that she was coming on to him - he's confused as to why she is being so nice to him, when he expects the opposite.

See -Ajax-'s reply above.

Refer to Ch. 209.

Not applicable.

If I remember correctly, Harima asked Karasuma if he was dating Tenma, and he gave a fairly ambiguous answer. That being said, you know for a fact that Harima and Tenma are not dating. Tenma and Karasuma are keeping each other's company, having private conversations, sharing their dreams and worries, and exchanging gifts - which at least implies a very close personal relationship between the two. While we don't know the situation exactly, we do know that it isn't a bond that anyone else has a right to destroy.

He sacrificed a single attempt to confess, but it wasn't his only window of opportunity to confess - he has had plenty of opportunities before and after. In that regard, no sacrifice is made. In addition, he recieves his payback immediately - Tenma finds out right away and thanks him. Contrast this to many of Eri's efforts, such as when she pays off Harima's debts or trys to sew for him - which go unnoticed. Also, I'd feel more impressed by his act if he didn't try to destroy Karasuma's manga, thinking that it was a confession attempt to Tenma, in the very next chapter.

If Eri backed off just to preserve her dignity, then why does she tell Yakumo that she had better follow through with the kiss?

Karasuma shook his head. That's a definite no. Harima is, alas, a flawed character, and he responds to what he perceives as other guys moving in on Tenma with counterattacks. However, he does respect Tenma's own feelings and acts unselfishly towards her. Eri hasn't done anything that unselfish yet; even her words to Yakumo only left Yakumo in the awkward situation of having to kiss Harima.

I somehow suspect that if karmic punishment is involved here, it has more to do with arrogance than it does with superficiality. That being said, I'm not sure which is more remarkable - the fact that after both watching the anime and reading the manga, you still insist that Eri is flirting with Karasuma, or the fact that you consider the act of a girl greeting a guy constitutes flirting.

I still haven't seen the anime; I found out about the episode from another source.

I suppose that we once again return to the Yakumo challenge of Ch.206, here - is Harima capable of developing as a character, or is he static and unchanging? I have faith in him.

Of course, if you don't care much for faith, then Ch.209 will have to suffice as proof by contradiction.

Though I do think Harima will develop as a character, I don't believe his feelings for Tenma will change - certainly not in the short timespan left in the manga. 209 had nice interaction between Eri and Harima, but no advancement of their relationship beyond the platonic on Harima's side. And Tenma is coming next chapter to hopefully shake things up.

[taichikun14]

once again, a GREAT chapter. it was interesting seeing Tenma say something a little more mature than usual... admitting that she's stupid... it made me feel even more sorry for her.

my only question is, why was Umezu's problem? so what if madoka got a ride from someone? it was only so she could see umezu...

for next week's chapter, just for fun i predict that eri will possibly have a *moment* with harima, but then tenma will come by and either figure out the whole eri-harima thing...but that would take a lot of putting-all-the-pieces-together type of thinking that i don't think tenma could do, so then maybe tenma will just apologize to eri right then and there... leaving eri either feeling bad about it or mad about it, depending on harima's reaction to the whole situation. i'd imagine harima would be upset if tenma was sad. but that's just my guess. sounds a little bit too predictable for it to actually happen in SR though, so i guess we'll see!

whatever happens, it's gotta be something BIG, judging from how serious everything got the last time it snowed in SR (ch. 158-159).

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by Marsala

Karasuma shook his head. That's a definite no. Harima is, alas, a flawed character, and he responds to what he perceives as other guys moving in on Tenma with counterattacks. However, he does respect Tenma's own feelings and acts unselfishly towards her. Eri hasn't done anything that unselfish yet; even her words to Yakumo only left Yakumo in the awkward situation of having to kiss Harima.

But that was right after Karasuma gave Harima the advice of saying the opposite of what you mean; he might have been following his own advice, hence the ambiguity.

[-Ajax-]

Also, Yakumo has been presented as a very intelligent, perceptive, sympathetic and well-meaning character. If she thinks that Tenma and Harima would be a good couple. she's probably right.

One of my biggest worries is this, Yakumo's support for Oudou.

Eri is - this is a little controversial - the rival. And like most rival characters, she steals the show. She, not Karasuma, is the biggest threat to Oudou. Karasuma is mainly a plot device to make Tenma seem out of reach for Harima, but Eri has received an enormous amount of genuine character development to make her into a credible rival of Tenma for Harima's affections. And maybe she will win. IMO that's why Eri has been so prominent recently - to build up to the climax.

Id like to think of her as a possible cinderella story, all the character development that she has received would be validated in a much better way than just to become a plot device to drive Tenma and Harima together somehow. Until i see more of Karasuma i don't know what to say in that camp, he has been nowhere to be found in a long long while.

I somehow suspect that if karmic punishment is involved here, it has more to do with arrogance than it does with superficiality. That being said, I'm not sure which is more remarkable - the fact that after both watching the anime and reading the manga, you still insist that Eri is flirting with Karasuma, or the fact that you consider the act of a girl greeting a guy constitutes flirting.
I still haven't seen the anime; I found out about the episode from another source.

Well in an interview with KJ i read, he said that he doesn't really interfere with the anime production, so i don't know if KJ had anything to do with that scene.

Kane Dragon: But that was right after Karasuma gave Harima the advice of saying the opposite of what you mean; he might have been following his own advice, hence the ambiguity.

...that was one hell of a confusing situation, i didn't know what to make of it lol


Its going to be a long arduous wait for Ch210 i tell you this right now hahaha

[OMGItsTehSARS]

Originally Posted by -Ajax-

One of my biggest worries is this, Yakumo's support for Oudou.

How come? I'm interested.

I find it funny how these tensions between characters right now started because of Yakumo's setting up Tenma and Harima.