[Manga] Naruto Chapter 535 Discussion

[sayde]

Originally Posted by octaviahawk

Wah! Everyone is so harsh to sakura chan but let me tell you it's not easy being a girl in a boy's comic book!

I actually think it's quite easy:
step1.) Look cute/hot
step2.) Upon getting introduced, get at least one BAMF moment
step3.)Don't do anything to screw it up before or after the fact (which is often times accomplished by not getting much screentime for the duration of the rest of the series.)

Originally Posted by james0246

Wanting Sasuke to die still requires Sasuke to appear .

Oh you.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Because they are now fighting guys who are just as strong if not stronger?

They are part of a huge ninja army that fights those zombies and zetsus. Kinkaku and Ginkaku were beaten by a lot of ninjas, and among those ninjas Shikamaru and his team were just a small part.

Originally Posted by DeDe

If Shikamaru, Neji, Lee, Shino, Tenten, Hinata, Kiba, Ino, Choji, Sai, and Sakura all went after pre-EMS Sasuke, he'd be in HUGE trouble.

The only chance they would have if Shikamaru made a plan knowing precisely what are Sasuke's godlike abilities and they would have to accept that some of them needs to be sacrificed for success. They don't know his abilities (see how Shika failed to save Asuma when he didn't know Hidan's and Kakuzu's abilities) and they are not ready to sacrifice anyone.
In fact Naruto knows exactly that they would die, that is why he said to them to forget about Sasuke.
An almost blind Sasuke forced Kakashi to use his MS just to survive, that's how strong he is, he eats elite jounins for breakfast now ( as Schwarzenegger would say )

Originally Posted by DeDe

Perhaps that is why Kishi never bothered to write it.

He didn't write this because he does not want anyone of them to die, and because he does not want Sasuke to become a killer of the rookies.

Originally Posted by DeDe

Why does the Alliance need to be taught a lesson?

I didn't say that the alliance need to be taught a lesson, but the individual named ninjas of the alliance. Sure Naruto has some flaws, but they also have their flaws. The only reason they are in this alliance is because they fear Madara's power, otherwise maybe right now they would be at war with each other.
But let's see some reasons:
- people like raikage are arrogant and overconfident, they just treat Naruto as some shitty subordinate
- they keep lying to Naruto, using even Iruka in their plans
- this manga is called Naruto and not Ninja Alliance
- it was told by the prophecy to Jiraiya that he will raise the kid that will change the world
- Madara failing against the alliance in such a fast and boring way would make of Madara an idiot who is not worthy of being the final villain
- what would be the meaning of Kisame's spying and sacrifice if Madara doesn't have the information on the alliance's strategy (remember that Kisame was hiding in samehada when KillerBee was at the alliance meeting where they discussed their plans)

Originally Posted by DeDe

What if Naruto just played into Madara's hands? What if he just caused the death of Kirabi? There are many potential negative actions to what Naruto just did. But like Hunter said, he'll never have to worry about them.

It was always like this, from the begining of the story. Remember when Shikamaru, the genius, decided to go with Ino and Choji to kill Hidan and Kakuzu? That was more ridiculous than any of Naruto's decisions because Naruto was always an "idiot" while Shikamaru was supposed to be a smart guy. In shonen manga these guys are driven by emotions, even someone like Shikamaru was beaten by his wish for revenge. But in the end everyhing turns out good, that's shonen manga for you
I remember a funny part in Dragon Ball Z: when Bulma freaked out that the Z fighters instead of destroying the androids/cell before they are activated have decided that they will fight. It was a funny scene that made it clear how idiotic these guys are, but at the same time we, the readers, just agreed with that since nobody wants to read a boring story, we want action and suspense and plot twists.

Originally Posted by mrShady

By claiming madara does not anticipate naruto the hothead to go out of hiding to rescue his friends? Madara does not understand how naruto can change people's hart, but he knows how naruto will react to certain situations. Madara has lived (as far as we know) far too long and done way to much sneaky stuff to have something like that happen to him.

That might be possible. But why would he expect that the alliance won't be able to restrict Naruto and put him in some kind of prison? Last time he visited Naruto Kakashi and Yamato made some kind of prison-like place to defend Naruto. Some time has already passed from the begining of the war and Madara couldn't see Naruto on the battlefield, and he couldn't see him at the place where the feudal lords are. So he might have decided that Naruto is still being kept in a prison even if he previously anticipated that Naruto will be on the battlefield. We can say that Madara might be fooled by Naruto because Naruto was so stupid that he fell for the lies of the alliance for a long time and Madara didn't expect that Naruto would be so stupid

Originally Posted by mrShady

His plans would not be foiled when naruto and sasuke fight and kill eachother. It would be setback but only just that. He might just do it for the lolz who knows. We haven't learned enough about the guy to say for sure.

We learned a lot about him. His rival was the 1st hokage and he was beaten by him, his pride probably couldn't take this, he bacame a man full of hate who hides in the shadows for many decades but his hate does not weaken. And he does not do things "for the lulz", he always does things for a reason, he has plans, that how he managed to be alive until now.

Originally Posted by mrShady

Then again it just might be possible that madara creates a juubi like creature with only the 1 to 8 tailed beast and naruto with his half powered kyuubi beats him. But that would be extremely underpowering the other tailed beasts.

Well if Madara can get the other half of they kyuubi that is not in Naruto then he has 8.5
And Naruto currently has only 1/4 of kyuubi, since he didn't tame it just stolen it's chakra.

Originally Posted by mrShady

He never before said: "I'm so strong now I can take on everyone and save everybody, you are all pathetic compared to my awesome powers.....". And that will be his (temporary) downfall.

He didn't say that, he just said that they are underestimating him again.

Originally Posted by mrShady

I found it to be too cocky not to be punished,

I liked how he broke out because they lied to him while he was trusting them. They made him look like an idiot. It was simply becoming ridiculous how they fooled him just a few chapters after the events where Kishimoto made him the "revolutionary who will change the world". I mean if Kishimoto decided to take this path then he should not make Naruto look like an idiot for too long time. I expected more action from a "revolutionary" then just following orders and being fooled. Do you expect from a "revolutionary" to just take orders and serve the system?
And now Kishimoto has corrected this, no more checking of animal penises, Naruto IS BACK

[Angelmonster]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

This is not true. They've both gained powers from external sources that augmented their abilities, be it Itachi's eyes, the Kyuubi's chakra, or specialized training. Sasuke has also always been considered advanced compared to most ninja in his league, partly because learning and mastering new powers/techniques is something that came pretty natural for him. Also, the sharingan and its potential have always been genetically part of Sasuke so I wouldn't consider it to be "unnatural"(except for the transplanting). However, even the transplanting isn't any more "unnatural" than sealing a bijuu in a ninja imo. One is a metaphysical implant, and the other a physical transplant, so both procedures placed something in them that wasn't there originally.

Sasuke learns techniques through the sharingan...I am more impressed with Narutos hard work then Sharingan no Jutsuing any technique. Sasuke hasn't created a technique, he learns them. Naruto learned an advanced technique and made it into something that amazes the more advanced ninjas of his age. I find it much more impressive, especially since everyone think he is such a shitty ninja and you can't trust him.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Angelmonster

Sasuke learns techniques through the sharingan...I am more impressed with Narutos hard work then Sharingan no Jutsuing any technique.

You know, to me it doesn't even seem like Sasuke is using the sharingan to its potential as far as instantly learning jutsus is concerned. I can't remember anything he used the Sharingan to learn besides Rock Lee's Taijutsu. As far as hard work, the manga has made it pretty clear that both work very hard. As for "Sharingan no jutsuing any technque", I'll assume you're taking it about it being his bread and butter technique? I'd say the Rasengan plays a pretty similar role for Naruto; although I'm not complaining --everyone has their own arsenal/flavor of jutsu...

Sasuke hasn't created a technique, he learns them. Naruto learned an advanced technique and made it into something that amazes the more advanced ninjas of his age.

Well, Rasengan is to FRS Shuriken the way Chidori is to Kirin (or the various other chidori variants). Throwing the FRS is an unconventional use of an advanced technique, Sasuke did that when he used Amaterasu in a pretty clever way at the summit. Its strange that you condemn learning a technique instead of creating; but then go on about a technique which Naruto didn't create, but learned and modified(just as Sasuke's been doing)... As far as impressing advanced ninjas of their age, they've both been doing that all throughout the manga, but.... (see next point)

I find it much more impressive, especially since everyone think he is such a shitty ninja and you can't trust him.

Amazing or impressing people has nothing to do with how natural abilities come to them, neither does their trustworthiness.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Suika-Esper

Anyway, yeah I just read this chapter and it's completely pointless. My pre-chapter opinion remains. I'm thinking maybe he was forced into writing Naruto back into action because of sales dropping or some reason. I hope it wasn't sales dropping because that would prove the filler writers for the anime to be right- that Naruto must be involved or else no one will watch a single episode with Team Gai or someone else in action without Naruto. It just doesn't make sense to take the story in this direction for one, and it's not a natural flow of the action. It felt like something was altered.

Kishi wouldn't know about any sales dropping until the volume is release. And Naruto has never been known to increase volume sales like Sasuke.

Kishi just spent a bunch of chapters focusing on Choji, one of the least popular characters in the manga. Before that he wrote about Darui and Mifune. Two newer non-bishounen characters without any real fanbases. No one in Japan cared about Choji's development judging by 2ch. Once Team 10 showed up, the Japanese were reading those chapters to see what Shikamaru(#9 overall in popularity) was going to do and they were angry he didn't do much. So I doubt Kishi writes to appease fans or increase sales. Believe me. Choji is the last character you would write about if you wanted to increase sales.

It probably more to do with Naruto being the main character. Eventually you do have to get back to him. Even if he is not really needed now. In a perfect world, Kishi would have gotten all the side character's fights out of the way. But this war is going to go on for maybe a year. So he had to bring back Naruto.

Let's just hope Madara provides a major plot twist.

[solidguy]

hmm maybe naruto being injected in is a good idea. Its something we didnt expect afterall. I leaves an uncertainty hanging over the future. Imo its kishis way of distracting us from the fact that this war sucks armillido balls

[Haak]

Originally Posted by solidguy

hmm maybe naruto being injected in is a good idea. Its something we didnt expect afterall. I leaves an uncertainty hanging over the future. Imo its kishis way of distracting us from the fact that this war sucks armillido balls

You really didn't think this would happen? Because I saw it coming a mile away.

[Angelmonster]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

You know, to me it doesn't even seem like Sasuke is using the sharingan to its potential as far as instantly learning jutsus is concerned. I can't remember anything he used the Sharingan to learn besides Rock Lee's Taijutsu. As far as hard work, the manga has made it pretty clear that both work very hard. As for "Sharingan no jutsuing any technque", I'll assume you're taking it about it being his bread and butter technique? I'd say the Rasengan plays a pretty similar role for Naruto; although I'm not complaining --everyone has their own arsenal/flavor of jutsu...

We haven't seen Sasuke learn anything since he activated his Sharungan, if Kakashi can learn anything with one eye an Uchiha with two obviouslt learns the same way.


[quote]Well, Rasengan is to FRS Shuriken the way Chidori is to Kirin (or the various other chidori variants). Throwing the FRS is an unconventional use of an advanced technique, Sasuke did that when he used Amaterasu in a pretty clever way at the summit. Its strange that you condemn learning a technique instead of creating; but then go on about a technique which Naruto didn't create, but learned and modified(just as Sasuke's been doing)... As far as impressing advanced ninjas of their age, they've both been doing that all throughout the manga, but.... (see next point[\quote]
Naruto created the shurriken, something admitted in the manga the hokage tried and failed. I am not condeming learning anything, where did I say that? I find it more impressive Naruto was able to throw a technique everyone thought was imposible. He has showed time and time again everyone expects the worst of him and he has beaten their expectations into the ground. Sasuke hasn't impressed me, Itachi has done jeverything he has save the chidori which Kakashi has done, as for his lightning the Raikage did it better.

Amazing or impressing people has nothing to do with how natural abilities come to them, neither does their trustworthiness.

I agree, saving the entire village from Pein should have given him a bit of trutworthiness regarding his village. I would understand it if the other villages presured them into keeping Naruto safe(though if Madara can walk through walls he can walk through them on an island too)but konoha should give him props, he has earned them.

[viro234]

does anyone else find it troubling the the only one that was ever honest was Motoi or some other 'enemy nin'

[DeDe]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

They are part of a huge ninja army that fights those zombies and zetsus. Kinkaku and Ginkaku were beaten by a lot of ninjas, and among those ninjas Shikamaru and his team were just a small part.

Of course it was a team effort. But everyone there was getting killed by Kinkaku until Team 10 showed up. I wouldn't call their involvement a small part. Since without them, Kinkaku was not getting sealed.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The only chance they would have if Shikamaru made a plan knowing precisely what are Sasuke's godlike abilities and they would have to accept that some of them needs to be sacrificed for success. They don't know his abilities (see how Shika failed to save Asuma when he didn't know Hidan's and Kakuzu's abilities) and they are not ready to sacrifice anyone.
In fact Naruto knows exactly that they would die, that is why he said to them to forget about Sasuke.
An almost blind Sasuke forced Kakashi to use his MS just to survive, that's how strong he is, he eats elite jounins for breakfast now ( as Schwarzenegger would say )

Before this war I would have assumed the same thing. But this war was about showcasing ninja other than Sasuke. As I said before. Naruto's friends aren't normal ninja. They are special. Just like Luffy's Strawhats. They are far more powerful than we previously thought.

Naruto thinking they would have zero chance to kill Sauske perhaps could be another mark against him for not thinking much of his friends. As was pointed out before, Naruto never says, hey guys, you are strong too, let's fight together and we'll never lose! Now it's, get out of my way losers. Only I can end the war and do everything. I'll take everyone's burden. I'm Manga Jesus.

Remember, Sakura of all people snuck up on Sasuke when he was having vision problems and would have stabbed him if she didn't crack(she didn't know he was immune to poison). You're telling me a team of 11 led by a Shikamaru plan wouldn't get the same chance? Has Neji fallen that far?

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I didn't say that the alliance need to be taught a lesson, but the individual named ninjas of the alliance. Sure Naruto has some flaws, but they also have their flaws. The only reason they are in this alliance is because they fear Madara's power, otherwise maybe right now they would be at war with each other.
But let's see some reasons:
- people like raikage are arrogant and overconfident, they just treat Naruto as some shitty subordinate
- they keep lying to Naruto, using even Iruka in their plans
- this manga is called Naruto and not Ninja Alliance
- it was told by the prophecy to Jiraiya that he will raise the kid that will change the world
- Madara failing against the alliance in such a fast and boring way would make of Madara an idiot who is not worthy of being the final villain
- what would be the meaning of Kisame's spying and sacrifice if Madara doesn't have the information on the alliance's strategy (remember that Kisame was hiding in samehada when KillerBee was at the alliance meeting where they discussed their plans)

So far everything the Alliance has done has been working. So I am not seeing where the Alliance is in the wrong. It's Naruto who is upsetting the apple cart by changing the plans. It's his idea that he has to go save his friends who are doing pretty well on their own. Now the Alliance has to adjust to him. They have to move ninja around to protect him. I understand he doesn't want to sit on the sidelines while his friends fight, but it still looked rash and somewhat childish.

Kishi missed his chance to make Naruto a revolutionary and leader when he dropped the Danzou and potential Konoha Civil War subplot. Danzou running Konoha would have given Naruto the chance to become another Yahiko. He could have taken the Konoha 12 and left Konoha to challenge Danzou. This would of led to a more mature Naruto. Someone who was ready to be Hokage and leader of men. But instead Kishi went back to the tired plot of having Naruto babysat by older characters, more training, and being cut off from his friends...again. Too many times Kishi has dropped the ball with Naruto's Shippuden character development. He has disconnected him too much.

[LadyKikyo91]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

You know, to me it doesn't even seem like Sasuke is using the sharingan to its potential as far as instantly learning jutsus is concerned. I can't remember anything he used the Sharingan to learn besides Rock Lee's Taijutsu. As far as hard work, the manga has made it pretty clear that both work very hard. As for "Sharingan no jutsuing any technque", I'll assume you're taking it about it being his bread and butter technique? I'd say the Rasengan plays a pretty similar role for Naruto; although I'm not complaining --everyone has their own arsenal/flavor of jutsu...



Well, Rasengan is to FRS Shuriken the way Chidori is to Kirin (or the various other chidori variants). Throwing the FRS is an unconventional use of an advanced technique, Sasuke did that when he used Amaterasu in a pretty clever way at the summit. Its strange that you condemn learning a technique instead of creating; but then go on about a technique which Naruto didn't create, but learned and modified(just as Sasuke's been doing)... As far as impressing advanced ninjas of their age, they've both been doing that all throughout the manga, but.... (see next point)



Amazing or impressing people has nothing to do with how natural abilities come to them, neither does their trustworthiness.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by viro234

does anyone else find it troubling the the only one that was ever honest was Motoi or some other 'enemy nin'

What do you mean by honest? And, honest to who?

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Kishi missed his chance to make Naruto a revolutionary and leader when he dropped the Danzou and potential Konoha Civil War subplot. Danzou running Konoha would have given Naruto the chance to become another Yahiko. He could have taken the Konoha 12 and left Konoha to challenge Danzou.

Yeah that would've been so epic. Like under Danzou's rule, Naruto would have defected and taken the strongest of the 12 with him as a sort of counter-part group to Akatsuki; at which point they would've all had very dangerous powers as they'd all be elite. They'd still have a gap between themselves and Naruto, but it wouldn't be as ridiculous as it is now. Some definite members I'd love to see would be Neji, Shika, Temari, Sakura, Kankuro, Gaara (yeah I know that would cause complications), and two more. Neji could have grown ridiculously strong because he was so talented before, and now he has formal training from his uncle; definitely room for great development there, such as a decent byakugan power that makes it at least somewhat on par with the other dojutsu users.

But now we have this ridiculous plot where Naruto is just miles ahead of everyone, and without him theres no realistic hope of defeating the big bad. Not as interesting as it could be imo. Oh, and the costumes lol... Naruto's akatsuki group would get some cool outfits for a change lol.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Of course it was a team effort. But everyone there was getting killed by Kinkaku until Team 10 showed up. I wouldn't call their involvement a small part. Since without them, Kinkaku was not getting sealed.

The alliance made a perfect plan and had the magical item for sealing. In that plan their power and abilites were not really show too much, they had a small but vital part. Shikamaru's father made a plan where each of them had to make only one move, their special move, nothing else, to make the plan work. I think that their battle against Asuma did show their abilities and willpower much better, in partictular Ino and Choji, and i was happy about that because back when they did fight Kakuzu i think Kishimoto simply ignored both Ino and Choji, they looked pathetic against Kakuzu, now Kishimoto found a way to make them justice and show that they too had grown.

Originally Posted by DeDe

Before this war I would have assumed the same thing. But this war was about showcasing ninja other than Sasuke. As I said before. Naruto's friends aren't normal ninja. They are special. Just like Luffy's Strawhats. They are far more powerful than we previously thought.

In the end this is just shonen manga, the main character always grows much stronger than the others. And since Sasuke and Naruto must be approximately on the same power level we can assume they are much stronger than the others by now. I'm not up to date with One Piece, but i remember that in all the fights Luffy was the one who did fight the ultimate boss, for example he did fight Enel the thunder god, the sand pirate too, etc. (i didn't watch the later episodes yet). But i think in One Piece Luffy is not that much more powerful than Goku and Naruto are in their mangas, so One Piece is a bit different. The same is true for Goku. As time passes the main character raises more and more above other guys, even if they were often stronger than him when they met. So simply by shonen manga laws the others can't be as strong as Naruto and Sasuke. But that does not mean that the others are "normal ninja", they are very strong, and becoming even stronger in this war. But that's simply not enough, while they are given one powerup, at the same time Sasuke and Naruto are given two or more powerups. They become very strong but they just can't keep up with the main characters.

Originally Posted by DeDe

Naruto thinking they would have zero chance to kill Sauske perhaps could be another mark against him for not thinking much of his friends. As was pointed out before, Naruto never says, hey guys, you are strong too, let's fight together and we'll never lose! Now it's, get out of my way losers. Only I can end the war and do everything. I'll take everyone's burden. I'm Manga Jesus.

I think Naruto fear that they would die, and also that if they are killed he would not be able to forgive Sasuke any more and would have to kill him. If Sasuke kills any of the ex-rookies that will be the point of no return, and i think Kishimoto does not want that to happen since his plan is to make Naruto succeed in returning Sasuke to the good side and to clean Uchiha name.

Originally Posted by DeDe

Remember, Sakura of all people snuck up on Sasuke when he was having vision problems and would have stabbed him if she didn't crack(she didn't know he was immune to poison). You're telling me a team of 11 led by a Shikamaru plan wouldn't get the same chance? Has Neji fallen that far?

That Sakura scene was because of plot reasons, it doesn't tell anything about Sasuke's power. Just remember how a completely exhausted and almost blind Sasuke was able to almost kill a fully powered Kakashi. Kakashi was forced to use his MS jutsu to survive. The first problem with Shikamaru's plan would be that he would never include in his plan any sacrifice made someone, he would want a plan that is safe for them. The second problem would be that he does not know the extent of Sasuke's powers. Sasuke has some powers that none of the 11 can beat or defend against:
- high speed taijutsu using the sharingan vision combined with lighting powered sword and other lighting jutsu
- kirin, the power of nature used as a jutsu
- sharingan based genjutsu
- amaterasu and enton
- susano

Originally Posted by DeDe

So far everything the Alliance has done has been working. So I am not seeing where the Alliance is in the wrong.

They did good against Kabuto, but Madara didn't make anything yet. Do you expect that Madara will just fool around and let Kabuto play his games with dead his zombies? When Madara enters the war that will change things.

Originally Posted by DeDe

It's his idea that he has to go save his friends who are doing pretty well on their own.

He doesn't know what's exactly happening, he could see some blurred pictures of ninjas struggling in a war. Anyone would be worried if he saw some images of his friends fighting against some large army.

Originally Posted by DeDe

Now the Alliance has to adjust to him. They have to move ninja around to protect him. I understand he doesn't want to sit on the sidelines while his friends fight, but it still looked rash and somewhat childish.

One who can be fooled by lies and can be told to inspect armadillo penises on a remote island, and one who does not ask questions even after seing Kisame's spying and fighting is really a childish guy. But he is not more childish than Goku was in his manga

Originally Posted by DeDe

Kishi missed his chance to make Naruto a revolutionary and leader when he dropped the Danzou and potential Konoha Civil War subplot. Danzou running Konoha would have given Naruto the chance to become another Yahiko. He could have taken the Konoha 12 and left Konoha to challenge Danzou. This would of led to a more mature Naruto. Someone who was ready to be Hokage and leader of men. But instead Kishi went back to the tired plot of having Naruto babysat by older characters, more training, and being cut off from his friends...again. Too many times Kishi has dropped the ball with Naruto's Shippuden character development. He has disconnected him too much.

I really wanted that to happen, when Naruto said that he won't kill Nagato. But that was just our wishful thinking that has nothing to do with the manga. I didn't like that the "revolutionary who will change the world" is just listening to orders and letting himself be beaten by some shitty ninjas. But i guess Kishimoto realized that it would be bad for the plot to make Naruto mature so fast, so he did slow down things. But this is also why i like this chapter, Naruto is rebelling against the orders, as a revolutionary has to do, a revolutionary does not blindly listen to orders, on the contrary, he has his own morality standards and own way of thinking about the world, and he lives by those ideals, and that leads him to rebel against the orders. But of course at the same time Naruto can, as you said, be also "childish". Kishimoto just does not want Naruto to grow up too fast, that is my impression, he wants it to happen gradually.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

That Sakura scene was because of plot reasons, it doesn't tell anything about Sasuke's power. Just remember how a completely exhausted and almost blind Sasuke was able to almost kill a fully powered Kakashi.

As usual you're switching between an out-of-story, and in-story perspective only when it is convenient for your argument. If you want to step back and bring the plot into it, then Kakashi becoming that fatigued from a brief scuffle with Sasuke can be considered plot contrivance as well. So, "that Kakashi scene was because of plot reasons, it doesn't tell anything about Kakashi's power."

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

As usual you're switching between an out-of-story, and in-story perspective only when it is convenient for your argument. If you want to step back and bring the plot into it, then Kakashi becoming that fatigued from a brief scuffle with Sasuke can be considered plot contrivance as well. So, "that Kakashi scene was because of plot reasons, it doesn't tell anything about Kakashi's power."

Well if you want to believe that Sakura can just walk/sneak up to Sasuke and stab him with a kunai then believe that
For such a conversation to happen both Sasuke's and Naruto's powers had to be shut down by kishimoto, and he did just that. Naruto decided to not use sage mode on his own, while Sasuke has been completely exhausted in a fight against Danzou, it served the purpose of allowing Kishimoto to insert some emotional conversations between team 7 members.
Sure i expected that Madara would save Sasuke from Kakashi, but Kishimoto decided that he will overpower Sasuke even more. Also Naruto could have killed him if he were in sage mode and went for the killing blow instead of saving Sakura.
But all this doesn't matter since we are talking about a fully powered Sasuke vs the konoha rookies.
In fact Kishimoto so much overpowered Sasuke that when Danzou got him with a binding jutsu (some seal) that is very similar to Shikamaru's shadow bind he just got out of it by using the power of his "hatred". That was kinda lame, but i guess if Shikamaru would get him with his shadow he would do the same thing, just use his "hatred"

[Im_A_MoP]

i wonder who naruto is gonna pwn first ?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Im_A_MoP

i wonder who naruto is gonna pwn first ?

Itachi or Nagato...or whatever the hidden figure was in Kabuto's box (okay, that's an extreme longshot). Or, all of the other Jinchuuriki (though, I kind of hope Kirabi takes care of that group). Whatever the case, Naruto won't be encountering Joe Schmo Zombie, but the absolute crème of the crop. Sadly, I expect Naruto will simply end the fight with a few words instead of massive collateral damage...

[AnbuItachi]

itd be dumb for naruto to beat nagato again. and I dont think naruto has the power to take on Itachi yet, especially since hes a master sharingan user which is known to be able to control the 9 tails. besides, itachi has susanoo which naruto can't break through. the stronger he is, the stronger the mirror reflects!

[Alchemist007]

Spoiler for Naruto vs Nagato:

Naruto: "I'm going to have to stop you again."

Nagato (zombie): "So, you're going to bring peace by fighting huh?"

Naruto: "That's my way of the ninja dattebayo!"

Nagato: "I'm going to beat your ass silly, boy."