[Manga] Naruto Chapter 536 Discussion

[Fran~]

I wonder how will be the thread of the chapter when Madara finally is defeated... Madara's fate is to be defeated. This is the same when Kishi granted power-ups to Sasuke, after that, Kishi was forced to do the same (and beyond) with Naruto.

So, that's the real problem of Shounen action manga in general... mangakas are forced in the end to show the heroes more powerful than their enemies and most of the times the results aren't that great.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

More likely, Kishimoto saw poll numbers indicating that the fans simply did not care or the most recently released volume didn't sell as well, so he was forced to change his outline to try and draw the fans back in...

Yeah, that I'd be more willing to buy. Except Naruto has (on average) maintained its number 2 ranking, even throughout the war arc. The volume sales? I don't know. I haven't seen the figures, but I fail to see how one volume performing below average could scare Kishi so much. Especially since Naruto is already insanely popular and is about to end.

Most likely explanation: Kishi got bored with it and doesn't know how to write for the secondary characters.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Fran~

So, that's the real problem of Shounen action manga in general... mangakas are forced in the end to show the heroes more powerful than their enemies and most of the times the results aren't that great.

Eh, there's always ways around that if the mangaka wishes it continue. I mean, just look what happened with Bleach. Though definitely, many times the story is ended after the hero surpasses the main villain because the author always intended it that way.

[AnbuItachi]

whats #1 right now?

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by AnbuItachi

whats #1 right now?

In WSJ? Well, if fluctuates, of course, but One Piece tends to have a steady spot at number 1. Naruto was actually at number 1 a few weeks ago.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

In WSJ? Well, if fluctuates, of course, but One Piece tends to have a steady spot at number 1. Naruto was actually at number 1 a few weeks ago.

Doesn't Bakuman make the top spot pretty often as of late?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Eh, there's always ways around that if the mangaka wishes it continue. I mean, just look what happened with Bleach. Though definitely, many times the story is ended after the hero surpasses the main villain because the author always intended it that way.

Yeah but my point is HOW Kubo wrote the fight against Aizen... it was lame, because Kubo powered up Aizen week after week... and in the end you saw how he was defeated and his plans were stopped.

I'm afraid that Kishi will follow the same mistake, Madara is a cocky villain full of confidence... and we know that in some way, Naruto will defeat him. That's the point, THE WAY Naruto will do it. Sometimes it's absurd that the villains are super powered up fellas, because mangakas are forced to put the heroes at that level... and in most cases, the way they do that is lame.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Doesn't Bakuman make the top spot pretty often as of late?

Yes it does. Gintama and Toriko are also top contenders.

[KiNA]

As Kakuzu said.. We are just getting started

And lol at 10-10's panel ^^

[Ulquiorra]

That whole chapter felt like a movie where 70% of the story is taken out and you just see the ending. We wasted panels on the stupid barrier team's faces and Iruka, but couldn't see any of the fights?

Well at least the plot is moving. I think. I hope to hell Madara blows the crap out of everyone there. The only character that can live is Shikamaru. The rest can die. But we know everyone is safe even against Madara. This war is wrapped in bubble wrap.

Even if we went to the other fights like Gaara and Kakashi's, they are utterly meaningless now that Madara, Naruto, and Kirabi have moved. The side fights are now over. You are better off moving Gaara's half to the beach to help against Madara. Let everyone fight the Kages there.

Originally Posted by james0246

More likely, Kishimoto saw poll numbers indicating that the fans simply did not care or the most recently released volume didn't sell as well, so he was forced to change his outline to try and draw the fans back in...

The most recent volume release was #54. It had Konan vs. Madara, Gai vs. Kisame, and some Naruto training. Even if its sales were poor, what info could Kishi gauge from that for the war? Tomorrow will see the first volume release of the war(515-524).

As for poll numbers, Kishimoto is spending a lot of time writing about Choji. One of the least popular characters in the manga. He has never cracked the top 30 and is way behind the other Konoha 12 kids. No matter what, he will be viewed as the homely fat kid no one likes. Hinata at least cracked the top 10 in the last poll. If Kishimoto were trying to appease fans, he would have dropped Choji in a hole and just wrote about Shikamaru, Hinata, Sakura, and Sai. All characters in the top 12. Another crazy example. Kishimoto has actually given Darui more screentime in this war than Kakashi.

So no, Kishimoto is not doing this based on poll numbers or sales. The editor angle makes slightly more sense. He did tell us one time that Shueisha forced him to write about Sasuke's stupid gang and drop some stuff from the Zombie Twin Arc.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Most likely explanation: Kishi got bored with it and doesn't know how to write for the secondary characters.

That too.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

The most recent volume release was #54. It had Konan vs. Madara, Gai vs. Kisame, and some Naruto training. Even if its sales were poor, what info could Kishi gauge from that for the war? Tomorrow will see the first volume release of the war(515-524).

Whoa. So the most recent volume release doesn't even have any war chapters? (I can't keep track of this stuff). Then yeah, there's no way that reasoning makes any sense.

So no, Kishimoto is not doing this based on poll numbers or sales. The editor angle makes slightly more sense. He did tell us one time that Shueisha forced him to write about Sasuke's stupid gang and drop some stuff from the Zombie Twin Arc.

Come to think of it, maybe Kishi really does just do what his editor tells him to, merely because he just doesn't care anymore. So yeah, not so much that they're "forcing" him to do it, but that he's indifferent to it.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Yeah but my point is HOW Kubo wrote the fight against Aizen... it was lame, because Kubo powered up Aizen week after week... and in the end you saw how he was defeated and his plans were stopped.

I'm afraid that Kishi will follow the same mistake, Madara is a cocky villain full of confidence... and we know that in some way, Naruto will defeat him. That's the point, THE WAY Naruto will do it. Sometimes it's absurd that the villains are super powered up fellas, because mangakas are forced to put the heroes at that level... and in most cases, the way they do that is lame.

i agree. but i'm more worried that naruto will defeat madara using friendship no jutsu. i'd rather see them fight dragon ball style than see naruto lecturing madara about life and the latter would realize that he is right all along, just like what happened with nagato. drama is okay, it's essential in every story but too much of it would turn any series into a soap opera and that i don't want to see. this is shonen manga not shojo.

Even if we went to the other fights like Gaara and Kakashi's, they are utterly meaningless now that Madara, Naruto, and Kirabi have moved. The side fights are now over. You are better off moving Gaara's half to the beach to help against Madara. Let everyone fight the Kages there.

bummer! i sure hope we'll be able to see some real casualties this time, otherwise this wouldn't be a war at all.

Kishi got bored with it and doesn't know how to write for the secondary characters.

don't think he got bored, rather he just didn't know what else to do or perhaps he's trying to play it safe. if he dragged this war for too long he might lose the interest of the readers, maybe he's worried about that. now let's see what he'll do with this sudden leap.

[lucasd]

There is a strategy involved, Tobi used black zetsu to capture lords in order to lure 8 and 9 tails, but they did it for him, so now he only binds kage power forces protecting them.

Though the winning of alliance against such powerful forces (clones + zombies) is somewhat absurd

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Realistically, it makes sense that Tenten wouldn't be able to use the fan, but Kishi couldn't even be bothered to show it. Tenten could've at least taken out an enemey or a mass of Zetsu clones before going down. But no, Kishi couldn't even spare her that one little bit of glory.

Yeah because that would just be so amazing watching TenTen take out a load of faceless mooks before spazing out. No it would, but it's not exactly something I'd be too bothered about. It's not like he hasn't already given other secondary characters the spotlight the entire time.

Anyway, that barrier stuff was ridiculous. The fact is that his stupidity caused the army to move forces to stop him when those forces could've been so much more useful in the main battle (and could've potentially saved hundreds of lives). And the barrier team never even considered the possibility that Bee would help. Even if it's unlikely they should've atleast made sure. "This barrier can stop a Jinchuriki. Not two just one!"

And now madara has joined the fray and is looking to do some murder. But unfortunately there are too many secondary characters there with faces (why the fuck is no one dying?!?!) so Naruto is going to quickly join which means the deciding fight will happen when the war has only just begun. And that's just irritating.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

don't think he got bored, rather he just didn't know what else to do

Because he doesn't know how to write for the secondary characters.

or perhaps he's trying to play it safe.

Bringing a long war, in which all the characters are supposed to have one last shine of glory, to an abrupt hault is not waht I would call "playing it safe."

if he dragged this war for too long he might lose the interest of the readers, maybe he's worried about that.

Because he doesn't know how to write for the secondary characters.

now let's see what he'll do with this sudden leap.

Hey, whatever brings this series to an end sooner.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Haak

Yeah because that would just be so amazing watching TenTen take out a load of faceless mooks before spazing out. No it would, but it's not exactly something I'd be too bothered about. It's not like he hasn't already given other secondary characters the spotlight the entire time.

It's not so much that Tenten didn't get to do something awesome (cause lord knows she certainly hasn't done anything else throughout this series). It's more that Kishi was dangling it in front of our faces for the last three chapters.

"Ooh! Ooh! You want it? You want it? You want it? NOPE! Can't have it!"

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Haak

Anyway, that barrier stuff was ridiculous. The fact is that his stupidity caused the army to move forces to stop him when those forces could've been so much more useful in the main battle (and could've potentially saved hundreds of lives). And the barrier team never even considered the possibility that Bee would help. Even if it's unlikely they should've atleast made sure. "This barrier can stop a Jinchuriki. Not two just one!"

Well, I think the barrier was really primarily there to keep madara and his team from finding Naruto and Bee and keeping THEM out; keeping Naruto and Bee inside was a secondary. When it comes down to it, Zetsu was completely unable to locate where Naruto and Bee were until after they got outside of the barrier.

ONe thing i wonder though is why they did not place the Lords behind the same barrier to protect them so that the mizukage could go more on the offensive. Considering how little the lords matter in this war, assigning a kage to protect them when they could have just been placed inside the same barrier as Naruto and Bee seems like a waste. Though granted it is possible that raikage was using them as something of a distraction or something...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Fran~

I'm afraid that Kishi will follow the same mistake, Madara is a cocky villain full of confidence... and we know that in some way, Naruto will defeat him. That's the point, THE WAY Naruto will do it. Sometimes it's absurd that the villains are super powered up fellas, because mangakas are forced to put the heroes at that level.

Definitely, I have concerns about how Kishi will handle Naruto vs. Madara as well.

But I guess it has to do with preference really. Some people enjoy seeing two gigantic powers fight. I know I don't have a problem with it. If Naruto beats Madara with a Rasengan so powerful it knocks him into the sun I'd be cool with it as long as their fight was epic.

It's the build-up and the confrontation itself that matters most for me. That's what I disliked about how Bleach handled Aizen's defeat. The fact that the fight was short, mostly one-sided and ended abruptly. How powerful the opponents were didn't really bother me.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

ONe thing i wonder though is why they did not place the Lords behind the same barrier to protect them so that the mizukage could go more on the offensive. Considering how little the lords matter in this war, assigning a kage to protect them when they could have just been placed inside the same barrier as Naruto and Bee seems like a waste.

I'm guessing that the barrier team assigned to watch Naruto and Bee are the only ones in the alliance capable of creating a barrier like that. If that's the case, setting up the same barrier for the daimyo at their locations wasn't possible.

And placing daimyo in the same location as Naruto and Bee wouldn't work either if they were trying to convince Naruto nothing out of the ordinary was happening. Even Naruto would immediately realize something was up if all the daimyo were being gathered into one place for protection.

[Kallen4life]

it bugs me that Zetsu called him Tobi, not Madara ...

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by DeDe

It's pretty clear Kishi had fights like Neji/Hinata vs. Hizashi planned and more side character involvement, but was forced to drop them to get to Madara so the plot moves.

You know, this stuff was actually set up before this chapter, when Chouji took Ino and Shikamaru on a ride with his initiated end battle plan; Seeing everything shut down like that in one fell swoop should have been easily seen, especially when some of the supposed prominent opponents like Kakazu and Dan were shown in the panels building up to Choiji's, well, building up...

Although the cynic in me just wants to see the plot move on beyond the "Battle of the Week" scenario that dragged it on (Albeit with the bonus of character development), and thinks that all of this was the perfect excuse to move it forward, at least it's with good enough in-universe justification...Who would have thought someone like Chouji would lend such a dominant hand in the mass-murder of mooks?

Looks like they're stacking white Zetsus six feet high, using them as sand bags...