Fate/stay night Episode 24 Discussion thread

[sharingan0619]

the ending to this series was really good....until saber and shirou separates! they should've been together!! i mean really....u can't separate them two...dats just not right, u know wat people, there should really be like a continuation of this series or sumthing that brings shirou and saber together again, it doesn;t have to be another grail war, just some other event that makes this happen, i can't bear to live knowing that they'll never be together again...what do u all think? with me?

[lftwgr]

I thought Saber's back story (that she wanted to go back and redo it all) didn't quite fit with the rushed epilogue we saw in ep 24.

From the earlier episodes, I had the impression that her 'duty' was to find another person who would take up her mantle as king. That would mean her return to the time period was a little late, no? She should've returned to just before her younger self was about to pull out Excalibur from the stone so that she could stop her coronation.

Or, she should entrust Bedivere with Excalibur and with it the stewardship of Camelot (yes I know it goes against the Arthurian myths, but Arthur(ia) returning from the future is already a major break from canon).

What do we get instead? Nothing. Just a prolonged version of what we already know will happen - Arthur dies, Excalibur returned to the Lady of the Lake, and Camelot lost to legend.

I'm not really unhappy about Shirou's and Saber's unfulfilled romance - having them separated by time adds a certain tragedy to the story. What I'm really peeved about was the lack of thought to Saber's end.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by lftwgr

I thought Saber's back story (that she wanted to go back and redo it all) didn't quite fit with the rushed epilogue we saw in ep 24.

From the earlier episodes, I had the impression that her 'duty' was to find another person who would take up her mantle as king. That would mean her return to the time period was a little late, no? She should've returned to just before her younger self was about to pull out Excalibur from the stone so that she could stop her coronation.

Or, she should entrust Bedivere with Excalibur and with it the stewardship of Camelot (yes I know it goes against the Arthurian myths, but Arthur(ia) returning from the future is already a major break from canon).

What do we get instead? Nothing. Just a prolonged version of what we already know will happen - Arthur dies, Excalibur returned to the Lady of the Lake, and Camelot lost to legend.

I'm not really unhappy about Shirou's and Saber's unfulfilled romance - having them separated by time adds a certain tragedy to the story. What I'm really peeved about was the lack of thought to Saber's end.

yeah, not much thought was going through saber's head, she was a blond wasn't she? anyways, Bendivere last words to saber might hold some hint of a continuation of FSN, Bendivere asked saber if she wanted to continue her dream, and saber was like ok im going to sleep now. this might be type-moon's way of saying, ok fans, watch the second season wen it comes out.

[Bahumat]

Originally Posted by lftwgr

I thought Saber's back story (that she wanted to go back and redo it all) didn't quite fit with the rushed epilogue we saw in ep 24.

From the earlier episodes, I had the impression that her 'duty' was to find another person who would take up her mantle as king. That would mean her return to the time period was a little late, no? She should've returned to just before her younger self was about to pull out Excalibur from the stone so that she could stop her coronation.

Or, she should entrust Bedivere with Excalibur and with it the stewardship of Camelot (yes I know it goes against the Arthurian myths, but Arthur(ia) returning from the future is already a major break from canon).

What do we get instead? Nothing. Just a prolonged version of what we already know will happen - Arthur dies, Excalibur returned to the Lady of the Lake, and Camelot lost to legend.

I'm not really unhappy about Shirou's and Saber's unfulfilled romance - having them separated by time adds a certain tragedy to the story. What I'm really peeved about was the lack of thought to Saber's end.

My interpretation was, that if saber had used the grail to go back to get a better king, she would have. However, upon the ending of a war, all servants return to where they came from (with the obvious exception of assassin). In saber's case, directly before her death. At least, that's my thoughts on it.

As an aside, she pulled Caliburn, not Excaliber, from the stone.

[lftwgr]

Originally Posted by Bahumat

My interpretation was, that if saber had used the grail to go back to get a better king, she would have. However, upon the ending of a war, all servants return to where they came from (with the obvious exception of assassin). In saber's case, directly before her death. At least, that's my thoughts on it.

As an aside, she pulled Caliburn, not Excaliber, from the stone.

My bad.

Anyways, in the entry for Excalibur in Wikipedia, it says that:

As Arthur lies dying, he tells a reluctant Sir Bedivere (Sir Griflet in some versions) to return the sword to the lake by throwing it into the water. Bedivere thinks the sword too precious to throw away, so twice only pretends to do so. Each time, Arthur asks him to describe what he saw. When Bedivere tells him the sword simply vanished underwater, Arthur scolds him harshly. Finally, Bedivere throws Excalibur into the lake. Before the sword strikes the water's surface, the hand reaches up to grasp it and pull it under. Arthur leaves on a death barge with the three queens to Avalon, where as his legend says, he will one day return to save Britain from a threat.

This does leave a delicious opportunity for a sequel, doesn't it?

Maybe Rin and Shirou could be at the Glastonbury Festival during their summer vacation from the mage academy when (in the midst of partying like its 1999) Shirou's magic spidey-sense kicks in and he stumbles upon a burial / stasis chamber built in a magically cloaked fortress under Glastonbury Tor. On the tomb, Shirou finds the inscription:

HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVANDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS — "Here lies Arthur, Former king, and future king."

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by Bahumat

My interpretation was, that if saber had used the grail to go back to get a better king, she would have. However, upon the ending of a war, all servants return to where they came from (with the obvious exception of assassin). In saber's case, directly before her death. At least, that's my thoughts on it.

As an aside, she pulled Caliburn, not Excaliber, from the stone.

i c, yur interpretation is correct, so do u also want to see a sequel to this series? maybe sum people were satisfied with the ending, but fans like me thirsts for more of saber.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by lftwgr

My bad.

Anyways, in the entry for Excalibur in Wikipedia, it says that:



This does leave a delicious opportunity for a sequel, doesn't it?

Maybe Rin and Shirou could be at the Glastonbury Festival during their summer vacation from the mage academy when (in the midst of partying like its 1999) Shirou's magic spidey-sense kicks in and he stumbles upon a burial / stasis chamber built in a magically cloaked fortress under Glastonbury Tor. On the tomb, Shirou finds the inscription:

OMG OMG, THANK YOU, U HAVE GIVEN ME NEW HOPE AGAIN!!! THIS DOES LEAVE ROOM FOR A SEQUEL DOENS'T IT?!

[mlai]

I thought Saber's back story (that she wanted to go back and redo it all) didn't quite fit with the rushed epilogue we saw in ep 24.
From the earlier episodes, I had the impression that her 'duty' was to find another person who would take up her mantle as king. That would mean her return to the time period was a little late, no?

Your understanding of the ending, and of King Arthur's death, is a bit lacking. Hence your confusion regarding the anime's appropriate ending.
First, Saber had decided not to pursue her wish to redo history, after understanding and agreeing with Shirou's rant in the Church crypt. Shirou's viewpoint was that of deontology:

One of the most important implications of deontology is that a person's behavior can be wrong even if it results in the best possible outcome. And an act can be righteous even if it results in a negative outcome. In contrast to consequentialism, a philosophy famous for its claim that the ends justify the means, deontology insists that how people accomplish their goals is usually (or always) more important than what people accomplish.

Saber came to agree with this, as it did not conflict with her idealized form of chivalry. As such, the wish to redo history became unnecessary, and even undesired.

What do we get instead? Nothing. Just a prolonged version of what we already know will happen - Arthur dies, Excalibur returned to the Lady of the Lake, and Camelot lost to legend.

No, what was changed was King Arthur's state of his soul when he died.
In the original Arthurian legend, in some contemporary versions of the story, Arthur expresses regret at the end of his life. How could he not? The kingdom he had built in ruins, many of his knights dead. In the historical version, it also meant barbarians overrunning Britain and the end of his people. So he died unhappy.
Compare that with Saber's death. She died content. This is more than having had romantic love. Thru Shirou's guidance, she found self-actualization in her life, something King Arthur had sought for but never found.
What FSN did for King Arthur is the most beautiful gift anyone could ever give him. I love Nasu for it. It is highly symbolic that this was achieved during the quest for the Holy Grail.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by mlai

Your understanding of the ending, and of King Arthur's death, is a bit lacking. Hence your confusion regarding the anime's appropriate ending.
First, Saber had decided not to pursue her wish to redo history, after understanding and agreeing with Shirou's rant in the Church crypt. Shirou's viewpoint was that of deontology:

One of the most important implications of deontology is that a person's behavior can be wrong even if it results in the best possible outcome. And an act can be righteous even if it results in a negative outcome. In contrast to consequentialism, a philosophy famous for its claim that the ends justify the means, deontology insists that how people accomplish their goals is usually (or always) more important than what people accomplish.

Saber came to agree with this, as it did not conflict with her idealized form of chivalry. As such, the wish to redo history became unnecessary, and even undesired.


No, what was changed was King Arthur's state of his soul when he died.
In the original Arthurian legend, in some contemporary versions of the story, Arthur expresses regret at the end of his life. How could he not? The kingdom he had built in ruins, many of his knights dead. In the historical version, it also meant barbarians overrunning Britain and the end of his people. So he died unhappy.
Compare that with Saber's death. She died content. This is more than having had romantic love. Thru Shirou's guidance, she found self-actualization in her life, something King Arthur had sought for but never found.
What FSN did for King Arthur is the most beautiful gift anyone could ever give him. I love Nasu for it. It is highly symbolic that this was achieved during the quest for the Holy Grail.

i could not have came up with anything better than yur explanation mlai, great job. so according to the legend, arthur is suppose to come back and save the world, do you think that might be a sequel idea for FSN the anime?

[mlai]

There will be no sequel to FSN unless Type_Moon produces one, and as of now they have no plans to do so. They're content to milk the cow with non-canon side-games such as Fate Tiger Colosseum.

However, considering how popular this eroge franchise has become in mainstream Jpn -if we can judge by the number of franchise goods being sold- I remain hopeful we'll get a Fate Zero anime.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by mlai

There will be no sequel to FSN unless Type_Moon produces one, and as of now they have no plans to do so. They're content to milk the cow with non-canon side-games such as Fate Tiger Colosseum.

However, considering how popular this eroge franchise has become in mainstream Jpn -if we can judge by the number of franchise goods being sold- I remain hopeful we'll get a Fate Zero anime.

yes, type-moon is milking a cow of money, and they need to find a limit before they milk the cow so much that FSN is considered dumb, and a fate zero anime?? well...i don't know....the anime won't advance any plot line with shirou and saber being together, so i kinda aren't really excited of it becoming anime...even though i will certainly watch it if it comes out. afterall, fate zero just shows the previous grail war, BTW, can you give me some info on why i see saber in a tuxedo suit, and some info on the other servants as well? im kinda interested now that uve raised the subject. thanks

[mlai]

1. Saber x Shirou is done. Finished.

2. I dislike your attempts to make ppl waste time talking when you're obviously not interested in listening. Why are you asking about Fate Zero info when there is a FZ info thread right on the freakin' page? And you *know* of its existence because you've posted in it.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by mlai

1. Saber x Shirou is done. Finished.

2. I dislike your attempts to make ppl waste time talking when you're obviously not interested in listening. Why are you asking about Fate Zero info when there is a FZ info thread right on the freakin' page? And you *know* of its existence because you've posted in it.

gosh mlai, i don't mean to annoy, its just that u sound like u really know a lot about this stuff, and ive only seen FZ on its official japanese website which was written in japanese, i don't ever wanna waste anybody's time and i always listen to what ppl say. and to answer yur first point, saber and shirou may be done for now, but i just want to keep the possibility that it may re-surface again, MIGHT ok...i need hope, i don't want to hear FSN will never have a continuation because that will break my heart...once again, if i have annoyed u with my stupidity because im young, my apologies.

[mlai]

Do a search on Google for "fate stay night forum." Very near the top, you will find a website dedicated to FSN, which has a thriving forum despite the series having ended. It has more info on Fate Zero, among various other things, if the info on this board isn't enough for you.

FSN's main plot, the Fate storyline, is a story with many levels for appreciation. To understand the deepest parts of it, one needs to have knowledge in the tragedy of Roman Britain history, the tragedy of Arthurian mythos, and various philosophical viewpoints which the anime bases Shirou and Saber on. Or one can read the "episode discussion" threads on this forum where the most erudite readers discussed in depth on these subjects. Start from the eps. 20 discussion thread, that's where the deepest discussions began.

You would gain a deeper appreciation of Shirou and Saber's relationship and outcome if you know all those things.

If you long for more Shirou x Saber, your best bet would be with fanfics. That website I mentioned has at least one good one currently being written, in the forum. Written by Nerroth.

[sharingan0619]

Originally Posted by mlai

Do a search on Google for "fate stay night forum." Very near the top, you will find a website dedicated to FSN, which has a thriving forum despite the series having ended. It has more info on Fate Zero, among various other things, if the info on this board isn't enough for you.

FSN's main plot, the Fate storyline, is a story with many levels for appreciation. To understand the deepest parts of it, one needs to have knowledge in the tragedy of Roman Britain history, the tragedy of Arthurian mythos, and various philosophical viewpoints which the anime bases Shirou and Saber on. Or one can read the "episode discussion" threads on this forum where the most erudite readers discussed in depth on these subjects. Start from the eps. 20 discussion thread, that's where the deepest discussions began.

You would gain a deeper appreciation of Shirou and Saber's relationship and outcome if you know all those things.

If you long for more Shirou x Saber, your best bet would be with fanfics. That website I mentioned has at least one good one currently being written, in the forum. Written by Nerroth.

ok thanks, i'll go google it now, and fanfics? yeah...i'll go see that too, but i'd rather have shirou x saber made by type-moon or some sort of official company, ive had bad experiences with fanfics being horribly bad before. o and i just searched it up, if yur talking about anime suki, im already discussing things over there, i think im ok with all the forums im discussing in now for the moment.

[crimmy88]

Ah man I just saw the ending and it was probably the 2nd best ep after Archer's badass ep. I wished it ended with Saber and Shirou together though =(

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by crimmy88

Ah man I just saw the ending and it was probably the 2nd best ep after Archer's badass ep. I wished it ended with Saber and Shirou together though =(

Buy the PSP game.

[taiboinew]

i hope the productor will make a HAPPY ENDING episode as a special gift for us .It will be greatly Welcome ! Fate ending made dizzy so much !!!!!!!!!!!!
( My english is not good - please forgive me! )

[iamandragon]

Get the PSP game--an extra good ending is there.

[taiboinew]

OOhhhhh ! REALLY . CAN YOU PLEASE SPOIL ME THIS ENDING . I LOVE IT TOO MUCH ! THANK YOU !!!!!
I am going to make my Perfect ending for me . I think it would help me pass . Do you want to know about it ? I need some advice and I will happy to show you about it !


I HOPE I DIDN'T LIE MYSELF !

Could you please tell me : will Saber alive after long dream ???