2011-06-06, 05:23 | Link #641 | |||
はりゃほれうまうーっ!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Right, they have a budget, and they want to get people to buy their anime, but last I checked Air/Kanon/Clannad Animes were among the best selling Anime of their respective years. They didn't have to water down the plot and add in more action sequences, but they chose to. I think Maeda was interesting in making AB the way it was. I didn't like it though, and even if they made it 24 episodes long and had a 4 episode arc on Yuri, I don't even know that that would have saved it for me. As long as they had those plot twists, and those episodes dedicated entirely to action, that show would have been a tough sale for me as coming anything close to Air/Kanon/Clannad animes. |
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2011-06-06, 07:01 | Link #642 | |
panchi~
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 34
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Is this actually shonen or 'Fate/Stay Night is shonen' shonen?
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TWO EPISODES BOTH WERE PARODIES And the first was essentially a big character introduction.
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2011-06-06, 09:27 | Link #643 | |
はりゃほれうまうーっ!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I'm not much of a FSN fan, I tried it before so I know it's premise. I watched the OP on youtube just now and I don't think it screams out Shonen as much as the 2nd OP does. But what is Shonen is very subjective, ultimately it's just my opinion that the 2nd OP looks like Shonen, based on works in the past I've seen, so don't let it screw with ya too much. My main point is that if you were to imagine a VN based on the 2nd OP, most people would think of something drastically different than Key's main titles so far. Whether it's Shonen or not, even if we got something similar to the "Seinen" FSN in Rewrite I would still venture to bet a lot of Key fans would be upset. The 2nd OP has nothing in common with the style of story-telling that I enjoyed so much from Key's main works. This is just my opinion. What I like isn't even the same thing as what you like. I'm trying to defend what I like and make sure what I like doesn't get turned into something I don't like. Forget about authors and past companies and outside works, I've come to expect something certain from Key and that 2nd OP is very very far off from that expectation. I feel like I'm regurgitating things from a few posts back now, I'm only interested in talking about the 2nd OP in any responses.... |
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2011-06-06, 11:31 | Link #644 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Ceral, you're not alone, I saw plenty of people on 4chan's /jp/ worry that Key had lost their special touch just from the second OP.
I think you're right that the 2nd OP wants to appeal to the "we love awesome fights" crowd. Isn't that desirable for Key / Visual Art's? Because they knew that they would have a lot of fights in the second half of Rewrite, they asked White Fox to make them an OP that would boost their sales, and this is what they received. Isn't that what happened? White Fox could have instead tried to sell Rewrite as an epic dark fantasy like Berserk, and plenty of people would have been fooled. But in my personal opinion, the "WSJ fighter" sort of atmosphere should widen the sales more. I would rather ask, with the info that Rewrite's second half has action, how could they possibly not try to market it the way they did? But if you say that it doesn't seem "original" because of energy swords and dinosaur-like monster hordes, I can't really counter that. The thing about cliches is that people often mistakenly think that great things possess uncliched elements that set them apart. However, upon inspection, there are really so many things that are basically 100% composed of cliches, and it's thoughtful and clever execution that set those things apart. Key is the crowning example of that, they write school life comedy with a "harem" cast, moe characters, and sentimental drama. Before Moon/Kanon actually came out and were played, you couldn't have convinced anyone that Key is unique. Actually, I still can't convince some of my friends that Key is more than just "moeblobs", so screw them! In any case, is it possible Key/Romeo will fail and that energy swords will really just be energy swords? Yes. On a final note, I can understand comparing Rewrite to AB in order to articulate what you don't want Rewrite's action to be like (I'm 100% in agreement on that) but like other/s here have said, it's not being created in anywhere near the same way. |
2011-06-06, 13:17 | Link #645 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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But who cares? People like that are living with their heads in the ground. As previously iterated, Key has been changing up their formula for years now, and if you don't like it, you are free to leave. Rewrite will have shonen elements. And it will be done in a fashion unique to Key's method of presentation. You calling it "not-Key" is silly. And yes, that 2nd OP is definitely representative of the kind of style they are trying to capture, and we are excited because we look forward to see Key's interpretation on it. Whether you approve of it or not. But that doesn't make it any less Key. Actually, to think that you've come to somehow "Expect" something from Key that they haven't actually delivered for a while now is actually condescending an extent. It would have made more sense if you complained around the time of Tomoyo After or LB, but now after all this time it's actually reflects more of your selfishness than anything else. Quote:
Does that mean it will be bad? No! Does that mean it's not "Key!" No! Does it mean it'll not be like what they used to be? Probably, we'll see when the game is out. |
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2011-06-06, 13:28 | Link #646 |
はりゃほれうまうーっ!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Thanks Myopius, for addressing all my main points. I guess I need to check out 4chan more often.
Well if they do have a second half full of action, I agree, that's something that they would have to market. Indeed I think they would get more sales by marketing it in such a manner, but if the game turns out to not satisfy the part of their fanbase that's in it for the comedy, romance, peaceful but emotional storyline and not for the action, I think it would hurt them in the long run. Some people might think that the 2nd OP is close to what should be expected from Key, but I think it's a complete 180, and if I'm not satisfied by what I read in the 2nd half, I'm gonna try to yell at Key in whatever Gaijin way I possibly can. You make a fine counterpoint in a very civil way. Thank you. Indeed every title that's been mentioned has had a lot of cliches. They also do things that I haven't seen before, while still executing the scenes that contain "cliches" in an enjoyable manner. But because of the genres I like at the current time, I would find it hard to appreciate a work with all the action I see in the 2nd OP. Whether it's dark or adult enough to capture most peoples imagination is an argument for another day, and one that I'm gonna keep myself out of. My complaint is that I just don't expect the focus to be on action in a main VN by Key, the climax has always been about the characters and the sentimental drama. How this climax has been achieved in the past has only involved a small amount of action, nowhere near the amount the 2nd OP suggests. I'm not saying something can't be good without some action in it, titles these days seem to have a little bit of everything in them, but there's always a dominant genre to label something by. Air had some action but by no means would you label it as action. The 2nd OP is pretty much writing on the wall that there's gonna be some changes to what genre this VN could be considered as. I'd be relieved if there was so little action that this label wouldn't stick to the title, maybe it's really good anyway, until then we're just wasting time until we can play the game eh. |
2011-06-06, 13:44 | Link #647 | ||
はりゃほれうまうーっ!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Huh? Are you sure about that? Do you work for Key? What were they trying to represent in their first OP then? That doesn't have any action in it. How about the demo, have you even played the demo? They've kept a lot of what they've had in their main titles. They obviously still have a good game on their hands that uses most of the formulas that they have been using. The 2nd OP is very different though, to say that anything with the Key label has suggested they were going to make something based on that 2nd OP is just plain ignorant. I am selfish, but that's neither here or there. I didn't complain about Angel Beats, at the time it aired, (Believe it or not) because I treated it as Maedas pet project. They've created some expectations with rewrite, it is one of their flagship bishoujo games, not just a spinoff; They've had an OP and a Demo that had some supernatural themes, stronger than usual, but it was still like their other bishoujo games at their core. You act like LB was so much different than any of their other works, I'm happy if they change the theme of the story, they've done that with every game anyway, is that what you're trying to say? Now if they go away from advancing the story through 95% character dialogue to telling their story through fighting beasts and vampires and I have no idea what else nor do I want to know until I actually play the game for half the game, that's cause to start yelling at Key. The 2nd OP is just like a bad omen. Last edited by Ceral; 2011-06-06 at 14:22. Reason: Added more to keep from posting too much |
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2011-06-06, 14:06 | Link #648 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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It's still a nakige but it's certainly not the same type of game that Kanon and Clannad were. Furthermore, why are you whining about action? It having action doesn't make it 'shounen' (which is a meaningless buzzword anyway), and there's no indication that just because there will be more action scenes, it won't be a nakige. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive... have you seen the SIZE of that script? Quote:
Basically, what we're trying to say is that you're complaining about a game that isn't even out yet for reasons that don't make sense to anyone. Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-06-06 at 14:12. Reason: please do start calling out people. |
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2011-06-06, 14:11 | Link #649 | |||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Likewise, you never stated the authors were doing mainstream, but you were afraid that Key would do that kind of stuff using fantasy elements, despite these two authors are hardly anything close to that (especially Romeo). Now, you stated yourself the OP is shonen. Granted, then what is the deal -for now-? That is again judging the book from its cover. I wouldn't really argue that much if it was the only OP, but we got the first OP being the main one, as well as a trial being quite "normal" so to speak. That much doesn't assure it won't turn into a shonen galore. However, the second OP doesn't confirm anything either, except the fact that "action packed content is present", without its predominent ratio or context. Quote:
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This is again the whole issue I was addressing in this discussion: you are jumping on some conclusion that is relatively hasty. Granted, if it is actually the case, then that's it. However, if it isn't the case, then it was basically barking at the wrong tree. Honestly, just "wait & see", because for now, it is just moot. Quote:
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Of course, they do not have heavy actions at all, but the execution and themes were arguably different from their main flagship titles. Little Busters, despite being a flagship series, is by a huge margin different from the other series, although its core is what Maeda usually writes. Really, the cast and the events in LB are definitely much broader and having a "blast" than the other 3. That's the whole thing to say: there isn't really a solid "Key" formula to put it blunty, and ignoring any VN which aren't Kanon/Air/Clannad is basically focusing only one a part of the company writers, not the full scope of it.
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2011-06-06, 14:30 | Link #650 |
はりゃほれうまうーっ!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I agree with what you guys have to say. Guys, I'm not complaining about the game, just the 2nd OP. I'm trying to justify that I don't like the 2nd OP by saying it's very different from what I would expect from Key. I am saying that it is very different, but don't take that too literally, Maybe this will get my point across : Horsing around with your friends, a story about family, battling mysterious villains on the moon, which one of these three things should be singled out?
Last edited by Ceral; 2011-06-06 at 14:43. |
2011-06-06, 17:00 | Link #651 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Here's the 4chan thread with a multitude of reactions to the 2nd OP: easymodo link
Ceral: Yeah, just 18 days left. Kagari fan art I haven't seen posted elsewhere in this thread: konachan link |
2011-06-07, 13:39 | Link #654 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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The point is: none of that is Key, until you see what Key has done with the concept. That is what makes them unique. Not the ideas, but how they implement those ideas. If Key thinks they can make a "shounen" type story with their style of storytelling, I'm willing to let them try. After playing it, and it turns out to really be the generic action type of story, then I'll be right behind you in denouncing Rewrite and Key as hacks who sold out to the mainstream. |
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2011-06-18, 13:58 | Link #655 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Please don't flame me, I'm just curious.
Is the translation project still going on? or are you guys waiting for the full game to be released? |
2011-06-18, 20:50 | Link #658 |
Team Spice and Wolf UK
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England
Age: 36
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Wonder if we'll get an anime out of this?
I enjoyed Clannad and loved Kanon, so I'd certainly be up for it, even if the second animated trailer does seem a bit more 'shonen-esque', but then I like fantasy; so if they make another decent series; then I'd definately be willing to give it a shot based on the strength of some of its characteristics even if they're not all to my taste.
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2011-06-18, 21:45 | Link #660 |
Team Spice and Wolf UK
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England
Age: 36
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Good news; Key are one of the few companies I've seen who produce what seem to be decent standalone animes from visual novels, which stand well in thier own regards, a lot of VN translations feel like a lot was lost in translation/adaptation.
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bishoujo, hinoue itaru, key, maeda jun, romeo tanaka, ryukishi07, visual novel |
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