Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - Manga discussion

[normp571]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Not as small as you think. We know that 250.000 people died after the loss of wall Maria and that those amounted to 1/5 of the total population. Which means the current population inside the walled country is 1 million.

Even supposing that the age distribution is similar to ours (very unlikely since their medical knowledge seems to be stuck into medieval times) the number of people in the range to be accepted for military training should be around 20 thousand, way more than we see in the 104th training squad even if we consider a half or even 3/4 that simply didn't enlist.
And this number should actually be more than what you would predict in a normal population because of those thousands of refugees that were sacrificed they obviously spared the young ones.

Jamaica, a country with only a slightly larger population than pre-fall walls has a little less than 3000 members in their active military forces. You must remember 1000s of people for in the Recon corps. Only about 700 people have ever been in the military police if ten went every year to the military police. Miles seems to be about thirty something years old so let's assume your military career lasts from about 15-17 to about 40 in the MP/SG/RC then there should be about 250 people in the MP at any given time. Considering this is the 114th training squads and the recon corps seemed to be established later after the wall was that would mean there are probably about two squads per year that are trained.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by normp571

Jamaica, a country with only a slightly larger population than pre-fall walls has a little less than 3000 members in their active military forces. You must remember 1000s of people for in the Recon corps. Only about 700 people have ever been in the military police if ten went every year to the military police. Miles seems to be about thirty something years old so let's assume your military career lasts from about 15-17 to about 40 in the MP/SG/RC then there should be about 250 people in the MP at any given time. Considering this is the 114th training squads and the recon corps seemed to be established later after the wall was that would mean there are probably about two squads per year that are trained.

Comparisons with Jamaica or other military in various countries are irrelevant. There are countries with practically no military at all but those are not at war do not expect war or rely on other powers for military defense.
The case of the walled country of SnK is different as it was specified that since the fall of wall Maria there was a strong social pressure for young people to enlist in the military and train, so we can expect that almost everyone of age or a very good portion of them enlist in this case.


Regarding the numbers of the recon corps and the military police, where did you get those?

At any rate your calculations must be adjusted because you are giving for granted that everyone among the top 10 trainees always decided to join the Military Police. That is not mandatory.

Consider the 104th squad for example, only one on ten actually did so. Now I don't expect that proportion for every other previous squads but I don't expect a 100% of them joining the MP either. I'm sure that the aces of the reckon corps such as Levi, Hanji and Mike were among the best in their respective training squads.

[marrugo8989]

I'm the only one who thinks or you believe also that mikasa wounds are so severe as to die?

excuse my English, I'm Venezuelan google translator xD

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by normp571

I have a question though. Why did they have to abandon all of Wall Maria and 250K people if only the Shinganshina District was breached. That sounds a little suspicious.

Colossal broke the door between the exterior and Shiganshina. Armored broke the door between Shiganshina and the inside of Wall Maria. I suppose they could have kept the other gate cities for a while, but they'd have been cut off with no food.

Aren't the numbers of soldiers:
- 3000 MP
- 6000 garrisons
- 200 recons?

[normp571]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Colossal broke the door between the exterior and Shiganshina. Armored broke the door between Shiganshina and the inside of Wall Maria. I suppose they could have kept the other gate cities for a while, but they'd have been cut off with no food.

Aren't the numbers of soldiers:
- 3000 MP
- 6000 garrisons
- 200 recons?

I don't think that is possible considering that the walls have been up for about 100 years and only the top ten graduates can join the MP. Thhe max number of them can be about 1991. That's assuming that every person in the top ten besides the 114th joined the MPs. Also, not everyone that has ever joined the MPs is still alive. Let's asse the average MP career is 25 years that would make is about 241 members of the military police. The garrison probably has about 2490 members and the recon corps probably has about 200-300 members. That is a revision to my original numbers.

[normp571]

Originally Posted by The Small One

To a certain degree of course.
But if my own survival would be put into question, I would think of myself first. Here we have Reiner beeing more worried about Berthold's survival than his own.

It's similar with Ymir. Until then she always tried to take the easiest path, which guarantees her a survival. But here she jumps into a mass of Titans only to save Berthold.

There must be some importance to him.

Well, it would either be go with BR, or go back to the walls and face execution. They wanted to kill Eren and he helped to fix the walls! Imagine what they would do to treacherous Ymir.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by normp571

I don't think that is possible considering that the walls have been up for about 100 years and only the top ten graduates can join the MP.

People can be "promoted" out of the garrison or recon into the MP, too. (Though I suppose people who volunteer for the recon in the first place have no interest in joining the MP)

(And I have no idea how you get your numbers...)

[normp571]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

People can be "promoted" out of the garrison or recon into the MP, too. (Though I suppose people who volunteer for the recon in the first place have no interest in joining the MP)

(And I have no idea how you get your numbers...)

I don't think people can get promoted from one branch to another. That's like someone getting "promoted" to the army to the navy. Oh, and to get the numbers I used math and basic reasoning.

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Colossal broke the door between the exterior and Shiganshina. Armored broke the door between Shiganshina and the inside of Wall Maria. I suppose they could have kept the other gate cities for a while, but they'd have been cut off with no food.

Aren't the numbers of soldiers:
- 3000 MP
- 6000 garrisons
- 200 recons?

2000 MP members with direct command over 3000 Garrison Soldiers.
200 Officers of the MP are in each district.
Sina interior has 400 members stationed.


Recon Corps is unknown cause seeing their members die in numbers and have few recruits.

5000+ Soldiers.

only the top ten graduates can join the MP.

That is if you only think of the moral ways, there are other ways to get in, hence Hitch as implied by Marlo and that her name even is a referral to "Bitch" further backed up by how corrupt the Police is in general.

[normp571]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

2000 MP members with direct command over 3000 Garrison Soldiers.
200 Officers of the MP are in each district.
Sina interior has 400 members stationed.


Recon Corps is unknown cause seeing their members die in numbers and have few recruits.


That is if you only think of the moral ways, there are other ways to get in, hence Hitch as implied by Marlo and that her name even is a referral to "Bitch" further backed up by how corrupt the Police is in general.

I'm pretty sure that meant that she slept with them to get into the top ten.

[Kiltias]

.....that's why I mentioned only Top 10 can join if you think of the moral ways.

With Hitch you have nice proof that there are also unmoral ways to join.So no, not just Top 10.


If anything, Hitch begs the questions about when or how the others joined the MP.
Cause evidently, she and Marlo are strangers so they can hardly have been together as trainees.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

2000 MP members with direct command over 3000 Garrison Soldiers.
200 Officers of the MP are in each district.
Sina interior has 400 members stationed.


Recon Corps is unknown cause seeing their members die in numbers and have few recruits.

5000+ Soldiers.

Where do these numbers come from?

Originally Posted by Kiltias

If anything, Hitch begs the questions about when or how the others joined the MP.
Cause evidently, she and Marlo are strangers so they can hardly have been together as trainees.

That's an interesting point. It's clear that none of them ever was in the 104th training squad and that's for two reasons: 1) they weren't put under observation like the rest, 2) they said that Annie is the only one among them who fought in the Trost district and that had an actual battlefield experience.

This can be explained in two ways 1) they graduated earlier or 2) they graduated from different training squads.
However Marlo specifically said that none of them has been there for more than a month, and that pretty much excludes the first option.
I think it's likely that there are at least two training grounds stationed on opposite sides of the walls and probably 4, one for each of the bordering cities.

[brandon279]

i think that there are 4 training centers, each training center takes 3 years to finish the training of one group, so if it was just one training center we wont be talking about 104 squad even it the training center older than the wall

if there was one training center, then in 100 year there would be 33 squad (not enough)

it there was 4 centers, if centers started after wall time by 20 years, if training takes 3 years, then
(80year) (4squads/3years)=106.6 squad

then yes..... 4 training centers
=============
who said that Berthold titan form cant stand on its own?

then how wall titans stood in the outer tunnels and formed the wall (above and in same time under the ground)


i will go with him not able to transform now

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Where do these numbers come from?

Disclosable information from Episode 23.

"The Military Police number around 2000, but if you add the Garrison under their command their actual force is approximately 5000."

"Each walled City has about 200 MP stationed there.
Primary duties are to oversee trainee brigades, monitor the Garrison and direct fire fighting operations"
Rose and Maria have 8 Cities in total, 4 at each wall.

So if there are 8 cities left after Maria fell and each have 200 we have 1600 guarding the cities, so 400 left and IMO it's plausible to think they are right within Sina.Hence, a normal city has 200 man, so 400 = double security than a normal city cause that's where the King supposedly resides.

Anyway I guess if the MP have command over the Garrison then Nile being the Chief of the Military Police has command over Pixis?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by normp571

I don't think people can get promoted from one branch to another. That's like someone getting "promoted" to the army to the navy.

Except they all get the same training. More importantly, I think it was mentioned in the anime eyecatches.

Oh, and to get the numbers I used math and basic reasoning.

Yes, but what assumptions have you made and why?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Anyway I guess if the MP have command over the Garrison then Nile being the Chief of the Military Police has command over Pixis?

Hard to tell if the garrison is completely subordinated to the military police or if they simply defer to them for certain matters. I guess it's probably the latter since Pixis made independent decisions. It might be a relationship similar to the police and the FBI in the U.S. the first can act independently but if the second shows up they can take command.

At any rate Nile certainly holds more power and influence than Pixis.

[normp571]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Hard to tell if the garrison is completely subordinated to the military police or if they simply defer to them for certain matters. I guess it's probably the latter since Pixis made independent decisions. It might be a relationship similar to the police and the FBI in the U.S. the first can act independently but if the second shows up they can take command.

At any rate Nile certainly holds more power and influence than Pixis.

Apparently..."He is the highest ranking administrator of the southern region, which includes Trost District. In matters of defense, he is given full authority."

Nile is the chief of the Military Police.

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by normp571

Apparently..."He is the highest ranking administrator of the southern region, which includes Trost District. In matters of defense, he is given full authority."

Nile is the chief of the Military Police.

And the Police has command over the Garrison....
And Nile is the Chief of the Police....

[GreyZone]

If I understood it right, the MP got a part of the garrison under their control, not all of them.

[Jan-Poo]

Even then Nile is the head of the whole Military Police while Pixis is in command of an area, he's not the head of the whole Garrison. Nile and even Erwin hold more power, which is why they were present at Eren's trial while Pixis wasn't.

The Garrison itself is probably the least important corp of the three. The recon corps has hardened veterans who fought several titans and survived and every member is well motivated (else they wouldn't have volunteered), the Military Police is composed by elite soldiers who distinguished themselves during training. The garrison is made of those who were neither skilled enough to join the Military Police nor brave enough to join the recon corps.