Which Fansub group(s) give credit to creators?

[exedore]

We include key credits (read: what our translators make the effort to do on their own and what we find from Doi/ANN otherwise) on all our releases. Most of the time it's in-episode, but when we're tight for space we tack on a credit roll at the end. Not hard, doesn't add much to the space.

We're weirdos, though.

[Koroku]

I tried to typeset in credits for Digimon Savers once.

After 2 hours and only getting 1/2 way through, I gave up. It was simply too much work for something that really didn't matter.


Credits change episode to episode, and the frames change as well.


It's hard enough to get the frames right on just fansub credits. Going through and changing all the frames on all the credits to match up each episode is just... too much work. When you're trying to get an entire episode to look good... that minute and a half that half your watchers probably skip over... just isn't worth it.

[teh_suck]

We put most of the creator credits (everything from the OP, and the most important ones from the ED), but it's mostly a matter of personal preference.

[JediNight]

Originally Posted by Reanimator

Another thing, I don't care about translation quality because I'm not watching Anime to read subtitles. I'm watching Anime to understand plot and dialogue. I'm not that kind of people who think fansub is superior than commericial version.

This is a bit disingenuous to say the least. Digisubs have been around for ~7 years now, so we do have a number of fairly "veteran" translators spread around various groups. And its not uncommon for fansub translators to move on to being hired as translators for the licensing companies, or do freelance work for them.

If you want to understand the plot and dialogue, the fansub translation is generally more what you want anyways -- they are generally more liberal in the translation than the commercial releases, which tend to gloss over accuracy for slang English, etc.

[checkers]

surely a free translation (by the fansub companies) should be easier to comprehend than a literal translation? That is after all the difference between the two views, literal translations try to keep the literal meaning the same, free translations try to keep idiomatic meaning the same. In my experience, translations by companies are far freeer, and even moreso for the dubs.

[False Dawn]

Sometimes a little too free though - and they gloss over anything that may be of cultural interest to readers (here's me crossing my fingers for a licensing company to start using tl notes ).

[iseng]

Originally Posted by Reanimator

I'm a big fan of Animation creators. For a long time, I was turned off by digital fansubbers giving way too much credit to themselves. You know, every fansubber member names shows up on opening credit and not even a single trace of mentioning creators' names. Recently I saw a fansubbed Anime, and this fansub group faithfully translated opening credit all the way. I thought, "hey there is someone who actually acknowledge & appreciate production people". Anyway, which fansub groups put production staff names on either opening or closing?

Another thing, I don't care about translation quality because I'm not watching Anime to read subtitles. I'm watching Anime to understand plot and dialogue. I'm not that kind of people who think fansub is superior than commericial version.

One group has impressed me a lot on this particular issue. Lost in Translation

Here's some screenshots of their (only) project, Angel Heart:

Opening:



Ending:



They translate and put the name of each and everyone in the productions (of the anime).

There is only one mention of their group. Which is at the very at end (screenshot 6). Just once. No group members' names, just the group name.

It is their principle and I quote:

About Lost in Translation

Talking about staff is always a hassle -- I mean, who really cares who timed an episode or edited karaoke? -- but for the curious out there, here are the people who make up Lost in Translation.

Translator: Lost in Translation

Editor: Lost in Translation

Typesetter: Lost in Translation

Webmaster: Are you noticing a pattern here?

We're not in it for the fame or glory; in fansubbing there isn't any. We'd much prefer to let the animators, actors, producers, etc. speak for themselves. So no fancy karaoke or text effects, no amazing video editing tricks, no credits for every person who was involved in the sub at the expense of mentioning one name of the Japanese production staff; if you're looking for those things, you've come to the wrong place. We want to be invisible to the viewer, unseen by his or her eyes.

In other words, we want to be somewhere between ciphers of the fansub world and a simple ghost in the machine; we want to be Lost in Translation.

Unfortunately it seems the project has stalled. Very good quality release too.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by iseng

Unfortunately it seems the project has stalled. Very good quality release too.

And here, exactly, is the point I'd like to make. There is a point where going to such painstaking accurate detail in subbing goes from "Labor of Love" to just plain "Labor". Unless everyone on the team has the same philosophy and work ethic, doing things like translating all the credits in a show quickly becomes boring, tedius, and can sap your (the fansubbers) enjoyment in doing what they do.
I'm not sure why this particular group has stalled, but in the end I'm sure it came down to SOMEONE deciding that whatever they were doing "wasn't worth the time" they were committing to it. Everyone is different in this respect, but I think that it's important to remember that fansubs are made for free, and MORE important than that, fansubs are made for the fun of spreading anime. If it stops being fun for someone in the group, you've already run into big trouble.

This, more than anything else, explains the rarity of seeing fully translated credits in fansubs.

[xat]

On the other hand, not all shows offer the text-estate that would allow for that amount of typesetting...

[Blue_Mage]

That may be true, but it's also not really relevant. In the end, it's an excuse, not a reason. I think Quarkboy really has hit the nail on the head as to why most groups don't do full translation of the credits. It's one of those things that can make or break your enjoyment of fansubbing. There comes a time when you just have to ask yourself, "Is there really any point to our doing this?" For most groups, the answer will be negative.

[xat]

Surely it wouldn't be the main factor for not doing credits, but regarding it as simply an excuse, at least from a typesetting perspective, is a bit much. There *are* sources where finding space to fit translations is either messy or impractical. That question of practicality can weigh in on the question of whether or not it's worth dealing with in the first place.

[Blue_Mage]

But in the end, it's a situation that applies to a fairly limited range of shows and isn't without its workarounds. Who says the translation of the credits have to appear at the same time as the original Japanese? There are alternatives.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mage

But in the end, it's a situation that applies to a fairly limited range of shows and isn't without its workarounds. Who says the translation of the credits have to appear at the same time as the original Japanese? There are alternatives.

I mean, why not create your own credit roll and append it to the end of the show?

Professional dubs do that all the time. I just watched "the boondocks" dubbed into japanese, and that's exactly what they did (instead of translating the english credits).

It's not actually that hard to do... It might even be easier than matching the frames for the typesetting approach. Hmm, I might consider that for the final episode of hataraki man, i.e. putting an additional credit roll at the end in english.

Of course, then, the trade off with that idea is that you have a larger filesize (or lower quality) because of the extra video/audio.

[xat]

Sure. Depending on how a group intends to present its translation, there are alternatives (R1s do the separate staff roll all the time) -- on that note, for groups intent on showing translation in sync with credits (a.k.a. the case I've mostly seen), it may come down to the suggestion of either doing it and resulting in a possibly messy compromise, or simply not doing it. Either way the underlying question remains, even for dealing with presentation (whether by typesetting in sync or by X alternative): is it really worth doing?

I found the available space worth noting for this particular case since the example is from an HD source (itself uncommon relative to other releases) with a lot of text estate, so dealing with the task of typesetting isn't such a matter (granted, the translation remains a constant matter for any project).

If it were up to me, I'd either take the R1 approach or wait until R2s come with NCOP/NCED features and use those.

[exedore]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Sometimes a little too free though - and they gloss over anything that may be of cultural interest to readers (here's me crossing my fingers for a licensing company to start using tl notes ).

AnimEigo have always included translator notes with their releases, going back to the days of VHS in the form of a hardcopy printout (until recently when they shifted it to PDF/menu screens).

ADV, Media Blasters, CPM, Pioneer/Geneon, Right Stuf, and FUNimation have all included some form of notes depending on the release and its demands (though ADV strip them from the thinpacks since they're considered "extras").

The industry has listened in this regard, and you can usually find notes as an on-disc extra or in the booklets that come with the DVDs. If there aren't any included, chances are there's nothing glaring that needs to be noted. Not every show is an Urusei Yatsura, Spiral, etc.

[False Dawn]

All I can say is: hurrah! Well done them. I have to admit that a lot of the R2's I have are pretty old (we're a bit in the backwaters with regards to the anime market in this country) so I hadn't noticed this trend.

But yeah, that's good (if perhaps a little old to most) news