Code Geass R2 - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Major1138]

Originally Posted by ashlay

no. He chose to be a Knight of Rounds, not a lowly governor. He is interested in the entire world, not merely Area 11.

People should really stop saying that.

What does it matter? The point is still the same - assuming he is sincere in his desire to change things from the inside, the plan he seems to have taken is to play the game and win. So he takes a shot at becoming emperor or close enough to have a big influence instead of being a governor or whatever. It's basically the same idea.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Major1138

What does it matter? The point is still the same - assuming he is sincere in his desire to change things from the inside, the plan he seems to have taken is to play the game and win. So he takes a shot at becoming emperor or close enough to have a big influence instead of being a governor or whatever. It's basically the same idea.

The point is he doesn't care about Japan. Japan can burn to cinders. They can all be enslaved and die, and he won't lift a single finger.

Suzaku's current goal is quite simply a challenge to the entire world, and as a Knight of Rounds is the way to do it. To say he wants to become a governor or Emperor is like saying Lelouch wants to become a ruler, it's ridiculous: these are not means to other means. these are the means to the ends. Suzaku as a Knight of Rounds and Lelouch as the rebel Zero. So yes, they're playing to win, but there is no prize for them at the end of these paths.

[calvinguy]

Ugh I don't know how people can even support Suzaku... First of all he murders his father, then he betrays Japan by becoming a military dog of Britannia. Hes naive to believe that he can "change things from within." He just has a twisted way of thinking.

I remember back in season 1 when he almost suicided himself in order to drag zero down with him. That makes me question his resolve of even trying to achieve his goal. I mean come on, even if you want to go through such a ridiculous plan of trying to change the empire from within, you sure as hell should follow through with your own plan. If zero didn't order him to live, he would die along with zero and crush the remaining hope that japan has left. Not only does he screw japan over by killing zero, he also can't continue with his plan to "change things from within," since he would be dead. So it all comes down to is how poor suzaku's decision making skills are, he doesn't think things out carefully or logically, he just goes along on a whim.

Ok back on topic. Now that zero has announced his revival, its only a matter of time before he rescues the rest of the OtBK. I'm assuming some will still question him for abandoning them at the most important time, but they will probably decide to follow him anyways since hes all they have left. Will he reveal his identity to the rest of them?

[Morgun]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Suzaku's current goal is quite simply a challenge to the entire world, and as a Knight of Rounds is the way to do it.

That is Suzaku's current stated goal. Whether or not he actually cares about that is still a mystery, since it doesn't require him to do anything other than to try and please Brittania. Something he'd do anyway if the idealistic goal was a lie and he just wanted higher status. Most of our view of Suzaku's ideals was from a fake personality. We haven't seen enough of the real Suzaku to know what he really cares about, if anything at all.

[Anh_Minh]

I think Suzaku wants to prove he was right in killing his father, which means he wants to prove resistance is futile, because Britania's invincible.

It's doubly true now - before, if Zero won, he could have told himself "He only succeeded because I shortened Japan's initial resistance, thus leaving him a stronger Area 11 than otherwise". But if Zero succeeds in rising from the ashes of the first rebellion, that excuse will be gone. And he'll have sold his friend for nothing.

[patnam]

Suzaku try to change things from 'inside' Britannia while Lelouch try to change things from 'outside' Britannia...

[Kaioshin Sama]

Uhhh Something about a Code Geass R2 Episode 02 article being up

And there's also this other thing regarding an excerpt:

One final key factor had to come into play to truly set the stage for this season I've felt. That is to bring the general public into the equation. Now, the reaction of the public during Zero’s speech is something you just have to watch the episode for yourself to see as it’s quite powerful and honestly a long time coming for both the viewers and the Japanese who had started to lose hope. Now their saviour is back though and R2 has really begun. The music in the scene that is what I’d describe as triumphant also enhances it’s effect quite well. Honestly it was the highlight of the episode and the theatrical nature of it all reminds me why I fell in love with this series the first time around. If the first episode didn’t bring people back into the series, then this conclusion to it should seal the deal for those who are truly interested in enjoying Code Geass.

That is all.

[calvinguy]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I think Suzaku wants to prove he was right in killing his father, which means he wants to prove resistance is futile, because Britania's invincible.

It's doubly true now - before, if Zero won, he could have told himself "He only succeeded because I shortened Japan's initial resistance, thus leaving him a stronger Area 11 than otherwise". But if Zero succeeds in rising from the ashes of the first rebellion, that excuse will be gone. And he'll have sold his friend for nothing.

That just makes him a coward really, giving up before even trying to fight back. He doesn't have an ounce of pride in him.

[Narutaro]

Originally Posted by Morgun

That is Suzaku's current stated goal. Whether or not he actually cares about that is still a mystery, since it doesn't require him to do anything other than to try and please Brittania. Something he'd do anyway if the idealistic goal was a lie and he just wanted higher status. Most of our view of Suzaku's ideals was from a fake personality. We haven't seen enough of the real Suzaku to know what he really cares about, if anything at all.

I agree, in season 1, although Suzaku preach about changing from within, we later found that his goal is to simply die in battle. he may truly want to change Britania from within, but that's secondary compared to his will to die, as seen with his idiotic suicide attempt together with Zero

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I think Suzaku wants to prove he was right in killing his father, which means he wants to prove resistance is futile, because Britania's invincible.

It's doubly true now - before, if Zero won, he could have told himself "He only succeeded because I shortened Japan's initial resistance, thus leaving him a stronger Area 11 than otherwise". But if Zero succeeds in rising from the ashes of the first rebellion, that excuse will be gone. And he'll have sold his friend for nothing.

I said the same thing before. a little bit different word, but to the same effect. I said that if Suzaku to support the rebellion, that mean his father died for nothing. in his denial for the fact that he killed his father, he convinced himself that he's doing the right thing by supporting Brittania. he make up reasons like he did it to keep the death to minimum. because it's true that Lulu's rebellion will cause more people to die fighting for freedom than if eleven just simply submit to Brittania.

so yeah, almost all of season 1, I can't take Suzaku's claim about his goal seriously, and at the end he's consumed with rage for revenge. imo Suzaku's current goal in R2 is yet to be seen.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by dom33

about the post you made after the quoted post, patriotic japanese? you mean urabe? I barely knew anything about him! sure he had potential but like kewell, inoue, yoshida, and darlton he died before I could care if he died.(weird statement I know)

Pros

2. the fact it won me 50 bucks.

4. there are other episodes that disprove lelouch= light clone, for example episodes 13, 16 and 18. I'm just glad this episode also disproves it.

5. I like them, this episode featured them.


Cons

1. for example we could have been shown kallen's thoughts during the cave hell they should've developed kallen's fear that zero was using(or controlling) her more than the cave scene and the confrontation in this episode. also what were suzaku's thougths?

2. all right I admit I spread my problems too much I'll avoid it in the future.but after fighting the vincent for like 5 seconds he decides to sacrafice himself for no real reason.(other than the plot.) jee the guy's a rebel they're suppose to be brave!

3. I checked wikipedia there's nothing about chinese eunuchs getting castrated.(or looking that freaky.)

4. to me it feels like the writers act like we're suppose to feel sorry for her, how can we have sympathy for her or even like her when's she's crazier than THE JOKER!(my thoughts on her scene.)

5. that's what this episode showed me. in most anime series in order to establish a character as strong or powerfull they say another character is strong then have the first character beat the second character usually with ease, I call it "the poor Yamcha effect." it gets old fast.

6. okay you got me there, again I'll shorten the cons in the future.

7. lelouch stealing a sutherland, owning brittanian forces with his brain, a lancelot-type piloted by someone formely close to him ruining his plans, governer-general dying, and character thought to be dead.(last one is admititly most different.)

8. I'll admit I don't know the story of cain and abel but I do know the trope of it. now in this trope the writer needs to make the characters foils to each other for the sake of conflict,character development, plot and themes of the story.examples include megatron and optimus prime(transformers), char and amuro(gundam), err cain and abel(trinity blood), clark kent and lex luthor(smallville/superman), in all of those cases your able to root for both for various reasons, but in the case of lelouch and suzaku, it's next to impossible to root for suzaku, I mean at nearly anime blog I go to the blogger hates suzaku.(and I'm not sure but I think your among them.)

9. okay I'll try not to repeat the above, this episode decreased suzaku's likeable level severly.

10. this episode gaves us the first look into their characters.

11. she has 2 right hands!

12. okay you got me there.

13. I feel brittania is meant to represent america for strong reasons that've been stated.

14. yes personal taste and for the 3rd time I'll shorten the cons in the future.

15. it's happened 6 times in a row now.

about rollo joining lelouch, I high doubt toudo or the rest of the holy blades would welcome him with open arms, if they know he kill urabe anyway.

as for what happened to gaiwin,C.C. and jerimiah after we saw them in the ocean we'll just have to wait.

rolo's geass seems to be teleportation.

Alright just a few clear ups and I think we're good.

3. You didn't check hard enough as it's in the first line of the part about China. "In ancient China castration was both a traditional punishment (until the Sui Dynasty) and a means of gaining employment in the Imperial service."

4. She didn't have any speaking lines, but by god if she didn't look somewhat unstable there, I will agree. I don't think they were going for pathos though.

5. He's had some smart and formidable enemies. Cornelia, Mao, The Emperor, Schneizel, V.V have all given him lot's of trouble. Of course characters like Carares and Clovis were throw away opponents who were fools, but the strong ones have outweighed the fools.

7. There were key differences.

8. And you would be wrong actually, I don't outright hate Suzaku. The story of Cain and Abel by the way concerns the first murder and how Cain's punishment for killing Abel was to wander the land in eternal loneliness, cast out from god's presence. It's a mainstay of tragic drama.

11. Yeah I see it now. I'm still not sure if it's just the CLAMP character designs or not that make it look like she has too right hands, but I won't deny that it's weird.

15. Just be glad you haven't seen Gundam X where it's pretty much every episode. The thing is that with series like this with one big continuing storyline there is rarely a clean cut between episodes. You saw it in Gundam 00, you were there so you ought to know it's pretty common in mecha series. There is always something left up in the air at the end of each episode right up until the end.

[Koshimizu]

Originally Posted by dom33

I checked wikipedia there's nothing about chinese eunuchs getting castrated.(or looking that freaky.)

Well, that Wiki sucks. There are dozens of Chinese people in this forum and you're relying on a stupid wiki page written by nobody and say anything that's not written on the wiki doesn't exist?

Each and every one of the Chinese eunuchs got castrated. That's why they were called eunuchs in the first place.
They are castrated because they spend their lives in the palace, alongside the Emperor's thousands of wives and maidservants. Precautions needed to be made so there won't be "princes" that weren't really a child of the Emperor. A normal man would not be allowed to set foot in the interior palace.

In Qing Dynasty (not sure about previous dynasties), there was a room called 寶貝房 that perserved all the Eunuchs' "balls". When an eunuch retired and would returned to his homeland, he'd be allowed to take back what belonged to him, and have it buried with him in his grave. Therefore in the next life he could still be a complete man.

Eunuchs do look like that. Gao Hai's design is a very, very typical eunuch. Eunuchs do wear make-up. And they do act feminine. At least that's what they emphasize in movies and historic shows. The creepy voice is also typical of eunuch. Watch a movie/show based on Qing Dynasty palace and you'll hear lots of them.

Show Gao Hai's character design to a Chinese. Half of them would exclaim "gosh is this an eunuch?" The other half wouldn't say it out loud but keep this question at heart because it's quite impolite to question if a man has his balls. And after you tell them the answer they'd say "oh I knew it!"

I say Code Geass done a great job in researching because it's the first time I see (and hear) such a perfect standard Chinese eunuch in a Japanese anime.

[selinawen]

haha, I'm quite late in watching this episode but anyway...
I feel that Suzaku is being a bastard by betraying his friend just for wanting to raise his positions...(SORRY SUZAKU FANS!!!) But I'm still neutral towards Suzaku, I don't like or dislike him, just neutral...
The Emperor having Geass isn't a shocked to me but...Rollo!!! What the heck! And is he good or bad?! If he's bad then I would probably be quite sad as he's Lelouch's brother...although I had no idea if he's Lelouch's true brother.
And Kallen finally realised that she's in that bunny suit...LOL!
Nina looks scary when she saw Zero, love seeing her pissed off although it's scary.
Just love everyone's looks when they saw Zero 'come back to life' again. They must be...o 0 Hope Lelouch succeeds, but I'll be glad if Suzaku becomes good again, I don't wish to end up disliking him...
And one more thing, the Emperor is a bastard...

[gabbytay]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

Show Gao Hai's character design to a Chinese. Half of them would exclaim "gosh is this an eunuch?" The other half wouldn't say it out loud but keep this question at heart because it's quite impolite to question if a man has his balls. And after you tell them the answer they'd say "oh I knew it!"

I asy Code Geass done a great job in researching because it's the first time I see (and hear) such a perfect standard Chinese eunuch in a Japanese anime.

Man they've got no balls .... to fight Britannia directly

[dom33]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Alright just a few clear ups and I think we're good.

3. You didn't check hard enough as it's in the first line of the part about China. "In ancient China castration was both a traditional punishment (until the Sui Dynasty) and a means of gaining employment in the Imperial service."

4. She didn't have any speaking lines, but by god if she didn't look somewhat unstable there, I will agree. I don't think they were going for pathos though.

5. He's had some smart and formidable enemies. Cornelia, Mao, The Emperor, Schneizel, V.V have all given him lot's of trouble. Of course characters like Carares and Clovis were throw away opponents who were fools, but the strong ones have outweighed the fools.

7. There were key differences.

8. And you would be wrong actually, I don't outright hate Suzaku. The story of Cain and Abel by the way concerns the first murder and how Cain's punishment for killing Abel was to wander the land in eternal loneliness, cast out from god's presence. It's a mainstay of tragic drama.

11. Yeah I see it now. I'm still not sure if it's just the CLAMP character designs or not that make it look like she has too right hands, but I won't deny that it's weird.

15. Just be glad you haven't seen Gundam X where it's pretty much every episode. The thing is that with series like this with one big continuing storyline there is rarely a clean cut between episodes. You saw it in Gundam 00, you were there so you ought to know it's pretty common in mecha series. There is always something left up in the air at the end of each episode right up until the end.

3.okay I missed that my bad.

4. well I suppose so, after all if they wanted us to like her they wouldn't have her threaten to kill most of her freinds and a city.

5. Cornelia: she got less threatining as the series progressed.
Mao: he was the most threatining villian in the series but he died.
Schneizel: lelouch hasn't had any real battles with him.
charles: the first thing he actually did in the series was mindwipe lelouch.
V.V.: a du ex machina.

7. not to me.

8. I understand, I suppose I should read the story some time.

15. I did see gundam x but I don't remember the cliffhangers being this annoying, but it look like I'll accept the cliffhangers.( besides next episode has a shocking cliffhanger.)

[SuperKnuckles]

VERY excited to see how LeLouch is going to deflate Rolo's seemingly unstoppable power with his intellect.

All the same, I don't want to see Rolo murdered right away or anything. I think the show needs a replacement for a mellow schoolkid after Suzaku. Also, from the looks of the ED, there might be a chance Rolo is a real sibling after all?

[Cronis]

Lets see... 60 pages... (calculates) ~12 hours; nope.

So far, awesome. More crazed laughter from Lelouche and more royal smackdown on the empire.

Suzaku seems to have some more character depth than last season; whereas last season he was in full denial of most everything and playing the perfect goody-two-shoes, this round he seems much farther from any kind of stereotype, and while stereotypes aren't necessarily bad, they DO get old.
I suspect he'll be doing much more than trashing mooks and generally getting on Lelouche's nerves now.

I'd say everything looks good so far, but still has me dreading what's to come; it has always been my opinion that romance should more or less be left to the fanfiction circles, and that the anime should focus more on other aspects of character relations and action... but, this being a CLAMP/Sunrise thing (and having checked the first few episodes of Sunrise's latest works, such as Gundam 00 and Gundam SEED) I have little hope of it's status as my unbeatable favorite lasting very long.

That off my chest, I look forward to the (likely) attempted assassinations, cold words, troublesome misunderstandings and tragic deaths bound to happen around the Karen/Lelouche/Rollo/Suzaku/(C.C./Nina/Orange-kun...) mash-up.

And also; I knew it! Nina (and Orange-kun) lives! Semi-main characters like them don't die in an off-stage, end-of-season time-skip...
Here's to hoping Nina dies painfully, and Orange-kun does not.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

VERY excited to see how LeLouch is going to deflate Rolo's seemingly unstoppable power with his intellect.

Or how Lelouch's intellect is going to be defeated by some goddamn superpower...

I hope Rollo gets geassed into loyalty to Lelouch. That's what he should have done to Suzaku...

[Tendou88]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Or how Lelouch's intellect is going to be defeated by some goddamn superpower...

I hope Rollo gets geassed into loyalty to Lelouch. That's what he should have done to Suzaku...

Suzaku was the last person he wanted to use it on.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

Well, that Wiki sucks. There are dozens of Chinese people in this forum and you're relying on a stupid wiki page written by nobody and say anything that's not written on the wiki doesn't exist?

Each and every one of the Chinese eunuchs got castrated. That's why they were called eunuchs in the first place.
They are castrated because they spend their lives in the palace, alongside the Emperor's thousands of wives and maidservants. Precautions needed to be made so there won't be "princes" that weren't really a child of the Emperor. A normal man would not be allowed to set foot in the interior palace.

In Qing Dynasty (not sure about previous dynasties), there was a room called 寶貝房 that perserved all the Eunuchs' "balls". When an eunuch retired and would returned to his homeland, he'd be allowed to take back what belonged to him, and have it buried with him in his grave. Therefore in the next life he could still be a complete man.

Eunuchs do look like that. Gao Hai's design is a very, very typical eunuch. Eunuchs do wear make-up. And they do act feminine. At least that's what they emphasize in movies and historic shows. The creepy voice is also typical of eunuch. Watch a movie/show based on Qing Dynasty palace and you'll hear lots of them.

Show Gao Hai's character design to a Chinese. Half of them would exclaim "gosh is this an eunuch?" The other half wouldn't say it out loud but keep this question at heart because it's quite impolite to question if a man has his balls. And after you tell them the answer they'd say "oh I knew it!"

I asy Code Geass done a great job in researching because it's the first time I see (and hear) such a perfect standard Chinese eunuch in a Japanese anime.

I think Gao Hai's just naturally like that, for one he and those like him hold all the power so I wonder who in their right minds would let themselves get castrated when they don't technically have to, while also not having to live with the Emperor as that person is a figurehead and the fact that the Emperor is also a little girl makes me rather doubt they'll cheat on the wives. >_> Though I do agree they based his character on the current interpretation of enunch rather well myself, I just hope none of the other eunuch are quite as... unique as Gao is. The Dragon Council thing from Episode 22 would suggest that right?

[testament101]

Even though I'm really liking this season so far...just from what's been going on...I'm going to dub this series GEASS WARS EP.2: RETURN OF THE KNIGHTS!!!! But seriously I hope that like every major character doesn't get some retarded strong ass power...those w/o geass are probably going to have like super mechs or something. Oh and I agree with the guy wishing for the painful death of Nina I just want her to see that it's Lulouch before she goes...too funny