(CR) Gosick

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by GDB

From my understanding, the final novel (or final two novels, not sure how it works, I think there will be an extended epilogue novel that won't be in the anime but won't be vital to the story at hand) isn't out yet. It will release before the episodes that cover it, similar to what ToraDora did.

Gotcha, and that's set to take place sometime in the future right? Novels 8 and 9 or something like that? (like 3+ years down the road?) So that means the last two novels should be released sometime soon within the next few days given that episodes 23 and 24 should be covering these two novels...which makes me wonder how two episodes can cover two full-blown novels??

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

OMG Avril...

It looks like she's supposed to be Tinkerbell, except it's the 1953 Disney Tinkerbell, the one whose body was based on Marilyn Monroe.

The thing is, there actually was a movie version of Peter Pan made in 1924, but in that one, Tinkerbell looked like this:

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

It is because she's white. Thus, the king is a racist. XD

Or she's from UK, which is allied to Sabure, so she has the option to remain. I can't help thinking that expulsion of foreigners was a cover by Roget to get Kujo out the way.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

It looks like she's supposed to be Tinkerbell, except it's the 1953 Disney Tinkerbell, the one whose body was based on Marilyn Monroe.

The thing is, there actually was a movie version of Peter Pan made in 1924, but in that one, Tinkerbell looked like this:

Actually, Avril is dressed like a fairy flapper. She's wearing a 1920s style flapper dress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapper


By the way, new episode is out.

Spoiler for ENDING.. whoa:

They pulled the bait and switch. In this alternate timeline WW2 is/was supposed to happen 10 years early. But I believe Cordelia threw a wrench in those plans. Victorique is in danger, twin brother blames Victorique for his brothers misery and apparent suicidal love for Cordelia. Pretty tragic storyline for her mother and her lover. Dude's girl is kidnapped and raped. She has a rape child that she loves unconditionally, Dude sticks with his woman to help her out. Brother decides to help out of love for his twin brother. Chain reaction of misery. Victorica is danger. I know who is going to save her... Roget, her former teacher, or big bro. I say its her brother. Grevil finally hugs his diminutive sister and sends her on his way. He probably planned her escape from the start. I wonder if he'll get wounded, too.

Grevil is likely to escape with his sister with a chick in tow. It's not like he's really into being a noble or anything.

[Ghostfriendly]

Spoiler for ep 23:

O_O That episode could have been expanded into a movie, and yet it was satisfying as a 20 min ep; but dreadfully sad. Kujo and Vic had better do their damndest to find each other after the war ends.

This ep explains why the rabbit-masks revere the Monstre Chamant; they're a cult that de Vlois has persuaded into it. With the fate of the whole country riding on her guidance once they're committed to the war, Victorique really would've had no choice but to follow de Blois' lead, if Cordelia hadn't jumped in. Brian with guns akimbo was rather cool, the climax was very sudden but came through in a big way. It could certainly have been longer.

I really don't know what changes to history would allow Germany to start WWII within six years of losing WWI; dramatically the changed date has kept things uncertain through these last episodes though. Possibly Hitler's Munich putsch in 1923 was successful, and he needed an immediate war to boost popular support. In that case the war in Europe could be much briefer than it was, though a conflict between Japan and Russia might well go on much longer.

Kujo looks rather pitiful on the Russian front with his Barefoot gen cut. I'm reminded again of Full Metal Panic drawing out the seperation of its main couple by war over many novels, which really was desperately painful. I've had enough pain from Victorique to be going on with, so please find her again Kujo! Grevil or Jupiter are more likely the ones to rescue her from Evil!Brian though.

[Fnights]

Predictable turn of events. I know they will go for the full drama ending where all die but Victorica and the useless and annoy Kujo. Indeed. Sad that an amazing pair like the "thief" Cordelia and the "illusionist" Brian have to disappear for their sake, they don't deserve it. At least Cordelia has had his revenge. Too early to make a 100% conclusion till the final episode but the last part seems pretty clear where the anime will go.

[ars89]

Victorique as a nun was so cute. Kujo was useless as ever, but like how he held on to the ring. Wow Cordelia sacrificed herself, at least she took Albert with her. So Brian sacrificed himself for Cordelia. But the twin has lost it, hopefully Victorique can escape.

[DezoPenguin]

Am I seriously the only one who thought this past episode completely derailed the entire series? I mean...

Spoiler for Complaining About Shows I Did Actually Watch And Therefore Including Spoilers:

Albert wins the struggle with Roget that was the main thrust of the entire second half of the series, and he does it in basically two seconds by getting the key piece of evidence back from Victorique in a single still-frame flashback. Kujo is shipped back to Japan. WWII breaks out fifteen years early for no apparent reason. Albert's obsession with the occult is revealed as complete fakery. Avril goes home. Cecile acts like an idiot for a few minutes. A whole year passes, during which our lead couple are separated (and whatever happened to "years from now" in the prophecy, anyway?). Half the cast dies. And there's nothing even remotely mysterious or Gothic in the episode. Besides which, Albert's priest costume is ridiculous for a European state minister.

Cordelia's derailment of Albert's plans and her fight with him were, admittedly, extremely awesome and that she killed him was very satisfying. The ninja old ladies, considerably less satisfying. Kujo getting beat up by his superior officer, more absurd than heart-rending.

Finding out that Albert was deliberately fostering a culture of occultism and superstition in the people of Saubure/Sauville for the past 24 years was kind of a silver lining, since I've been commenting on the unusually superstitious nature of the local culture since the beginning.

Translation: Deciding to change the genre of a 24-episode series in Episode 23 is not a good choice. In one episode, Gosick has managed to go from my favorite series of 2011 (both seasons) to something for which watching the last episode will be an example of the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

[TheGeekHuntress]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Am I seriously the only one who thought this past episode completely derailed the entire series? I mean...

Spoiler for Complaining About Shows I Did Actually Watch And Therefore Including Spoilers:

Albert wins the struggle with Roget that was the main thrust of the entire second half of the series, and he does it in basically two seconds by getting the key piece of evidence back from Victorique in a single still-frame flashback. Kujo is shipped back to Japan. WWII breaks out fifteen years early for no apparent reason. Albert's obsession with the occult is revealed as complete fakery. Avril goes home. Cecile acts like an idiot for a few minutes. A whole year passes, during which our lead couple are separated (and whatever happened to "years from now" in the prophecy, anyway?). Half the cast dies. And there's nothing even remotely mysterious or Gothic in the episode. Besides which, Albert's priest costume is ridiculous for a European state minister.

Cordelia's derailment of Albert's plans and her fight with him were, admittedly, extremely awesome and that she killed him was very satisfying. The ninja old ladies, considerably less satisfying. Kujo getting beat up by his superior officer, more absurd than heart-rending.

Finding out that Albert was deliberately fostering a culture of occultism and superstition in the people of Saubure/Sauville for the past 24 years was kind of a silver lining, since I've been commenting on the unusually superstitious nature of the local culture since the beginning.

Translation: Deciding to change the genre of a 24-episode series in Episode 23 is not a good choice. In one episode, Gosick has managed to go from my favorite series of 2011 (both seasons) to something for which watching the last episode will be an example of the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Wow. That was a good rant. It felt a bit rushed to me. I did enjoy the showdown between Albert and Cordelia. That was nice.

[Friday]

Revenge was sweet for Cordelia!!!!!!

Kujo is back in Japan.....is he?

[demonkevy666]

me = stunned @_@!
it did seems out of place honestly.

[Guido]

On the contrary, I think the episode gargantually succeeded at resolving the major conflict: - Marquis Albert DuBlois paying his debt and serving his sentence.

Got to agree, that with either Victorique and Kujo out of the public eye, the world of Gosick at the Library Tower, at Saubreme, and at the Academy felt hollow, outliving its purpose.

One cannot lash to Cecilé for making cheerful attempts to keep the classroom spirits lively for one last time, even if Avril was the last remaining student at the school.

However, I didn't like at all the manipulation of the historical events from an altered timeline not for the manipulation per se, but because this alternate timeline supposedly plays that World War II started with the same triggered as it did in real-life history: the invasion of Poland.

Political tactics were definitely, vastly different in the 1920's from the 1930's.

That aside, Albert became an iconic villain, and archetype of Machiavellan plotting, schism, and manipulation. All the atrocities he committed upon innocent others who had nothing to do; forced through hells that didn't deserve.
All because of his childish fantasies regarding his obsession with occultism, and even Leviathan with his tricks slapped Albert hard on the face that "occultism" was a fake after all, nevertheless, the Marquis did not let himself deterred and used the illusion to creat a fake lie that absorbed the minds, then hearts of the people at Sauville in order for them to pay unwavering loyalty to him, nonetheless.

Spoiler:

The climax, however, made the episode going with a blaze of vindictive glory.

Cordelia, even for her small frame and stature, became Imperially badass with the daggers and the footing. A proof that never judge the loli-sized women for her appearance and size.

I was whoops and chilling, excited with that awesome fight to the death; Cordelia killing her monster, Albert, at the cost of her life but done for a purpose: the pave the way for the light to clear Victorique's road for the future that she may choose.

Unfortunately, Brian Roscoe absolute hatred and horror towards the Marquis and everything related to the latter, blinded him with rage and death fury to attempt at Victorique's life, knowing that Cordelia and his twin went to fight a dying battle for no way return.

[Guardian Enzo]

I thought that was magnificent, personally - not just a beautiful melding of all the plot points that had been planted, but a huge step up in weight class dramatically speaking. It did feel like a different show - in a good way.

[Essa Maneira]

This episode makes me wowed and thrilled...
all i can say its an EPIC.

[Undertaker]

Being a while since I posted in this theard.

Here is what I think of past few episodes.


The Coco Arc is well done and well written. Gosick has been a chracter-centric series and it had never been known as a serious mystery/detective novel and its tricks and logic has always being lacking. However, the trick behind Coco's murder, while simple, was well-told and logically sound unlike prior tricks. This probably due to Sakuraba's improvement as a writer over past few years after deserting LN area.


The sad part was, just as Coco arc gave me higher anticipation than ever before, the past two episode were serious letdown.


For me, the best part of the Anime adaption was that the Anime crew did a masterful job in adaption the source material. Even if there were few changes in chronology and events, there were handled logically and extremely well. In short, Gosick became a series that can be enjoyed fully without the need of reading the source Novel. In this regard, IMO, it out done some other well received but a bit lacking series such as Oreimo and Toradora. While those two series were well animated, they also requires viewers to read the original LN to get the most out out it's story, (Oreimo in general, Toradora towards second half) while Gosick anime can really claim to be a stand alone work despite featuring the same main plot line.


What was disappointing in last two episode was that they fell rushed, and for first time in series, seem out of place and illogical.

Just as we saw Kujo's improvement in Coco arc, he went right back to his worthless self in ep. 22, trusting Supernatural group, stupidly rashed back to Victorique without any plan, etc.

Episode 23 was even worse, I've always thought the reason Cordelia and Brian didn't decide to rescue Victorique from the school (or earlier) was because Brian was the muscle and Cordelia is the brain in the pair, and they didn't have enough muscle to taking in a physically weak Victorique and protect her. However this all changed when Brian became twins and now Cordelia is now apparently a master assassin. (which is awesome, BTW) There are more than enough muscles there to rescue and protect Victorique if they really wanted to.

In the end, Cordelia and Brian(s) purpose were still ambiguous at best.

Second, Kujo's where about. It seem he is send back to Japan and was ordered to the north back on his superior's remark. But if that's the cases, it seems illogical for the treatment of Kujo (after all, he is the son of high-reank military officer, maybe there isn't preferential treatment, at least he shouldn't get specifically targeted and bullied.) If Kujo was still under Albert's control it seem weird sending Kujo to north while still use his letter as a mean to control Victorique. It much more effecient to lock him up and use his safety to force Vicotique to listen.

Other little things as Grevil went backward to be a yes-man to his father after showing some resistance throughout the series or completely illogical scene where Avril became the last student in the academy, to Roger absolutely got owned by Albert in one shot with nothing to fight back. Or this out of nowhere hatred or Grey Wolves toward Sauville....

Either way, there were a lot of finer details missing and it makes for the first time the series seems incomplete and makes you want to read the original LN. On the other hand there is an important difference between novel and anime that cause the flow of main plot to differ and I don't think reading LN can solve it. (not to mention LN 8 just release 2 days ago apparently it was changed to 2 volumes instead just 1 final volume to wrap everything up.)

Not only that in 10.5 special, it was mentioned that Anime and LN will take different routes to reach same ending, if that's true, than the past two episode will most likely be as-is and it's too bad because if there are 26 episodes (maxium length for 2-cours series) instead of 24 and lengthen this last arc maybe it won't fell this out of place and rushed as these last 2 episodes felt right now and I doubt the finale can change much about it.

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Am I seriously the only one who thought this past episode completely derailed the entire series? I mean...

Spoiler for Complaining About Shows I Did Actually Watch And Therefore Including Spoilers:

Albert wins the struggle with Roget that was the main thrust of the entire second half of the series, and he does it in basically two seconds by getting the key piece of evidence back from Victorique in a single still-frame flashback. Kujo is shipped back to Japan. WWII breaks out fifteen years early for no apparent reason. Albert's obsession with the occult is revealed as complete fakery. Avril goes home. Cecile acts like an idiot for a few minutes. A whole year passes, during which our lead couple are separated (and whatever happened to "years from now" in the prophecy, anyway?). Half the cast dies. And there's nothing even remotely mysterious or Gothic in the episode. Besides which, Albert's priest costume is ridiculous for a European state minister.

Cordelia's derailment of Albert's plans and her fight with him were, admittedly, extremely awesome and that she killed him was very satisfying. The ninja old ladies, considerably less satisfying. Kujo getting beat up by his superior officer, more absurd than heart-rending.

Finding out that Albert was deliberately fostering a culture of occultism and superstition in the people of Saubure/Sauville for the past 24 years was kind of a silver lining, since I've been commenting on the unusually superstitious nature of the local culture since the beginning.

Translation: Deciding to change the genre of a 24-episode series in Episode 23 is not a good choice. In one episode, Gosick has managed to go from my favorite series of 2011 (both seasons) to something for which watching the last episode will be an example of the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Originally Posted by TheGeekHuntress

Wow. That was a good rant. It felt a bit rushed to me. I did enjoy the showdown between Albert and Cordelia. That was nice.

Originally Posted by demonkevy666

me = stunned @_@!
it did seems out of place honestly.

I completely agrees.


While I can accept the whole WW2 started in 1924 thing, (after all Sauville is not a real country and this is still a more of a imaginary world/history than anything) there are just too many holes and rushed details.

[Guardian Enzo]

It's not clear to me whether Kujo has been stashed in Saubere's army, or deported to Japan. The food certainly favors the latter - but that uniform didn't look like any Japanese army uniform I remember (it actually looks more like a Chinese Nationalist army uniform than anything). And did Japan conscript 15 year-olds, even in the 20's?

[Undertaker]

If this is any consolation, I almost thought he was in concentration camp if not for the guns and superior officers....

Just another reason why I post what I did above...

[~Yami~]

NICE!!!!
EPIC!!!!
I only can say that.... So Coco arc and Beelzebub arc are connected each other and also part of Albert's plan

Albert is very similar with an ultra-nationalist person and a occult-dictator
I truly enjoy the final showdown between Victorique's parents although it's kind of sad since Cordelia never got chance to talk with Victorique anymore
I also love how Kujo is grow stronger in his military life (thanks God that he isn't going to Japan since it will be impossible for him to meet Victorique again)

I am curious about the finale episode.... please let it be a happy ending (maybe a time skip will be happen here)

[Kanon]

While I agree this episode was rushed -very rushed-, I can't say I was too bothered by the change of style/genre, since I never thought the murder cases were very good in the first place. The only case that was solid from beginning to end was Leviathan's. The Coco rose case was very promising and started out strongly, but unfortunately, its conclusion was extremely disappointing. The strength of the series is Victorique and Kujo's relationship, and to a lesser extent, Cordelia's love for her daughter, which I've always found very moving. As I had feared after seeing episode 17, Cordelia never got to tell her daughter face to face how much she loved her. I was looking forward to their reunion so much, and now it'll never happen...

I cheered when Victorique revealed the Marquis' treacherous ways to the audience, and was slighty disappointed she was revealed to actually be Cordelia in disguise. This speech would have had more impact if it had been Vickie speaking, I was really hoping we'd see her openly stand up to her father before the end of the series.

Cordelia's fight against Albert was pretty awesome. I had almost forgotten this series was animated by BONES. Cordelia's fighting skills surprised me, did she train with master Yoda or something? I swear their fighting style is the same
Such a shame Cordelia and Brian had to die. They were among my favorite characters of the series, after Victorique. Curse, old ninja ladies!

Looking forward to seeing Grevil save his sister from Brian 2 next week. I hope he won't also die.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It's not clear to me whether Kujo has been stashed in Saubere's army, or deported to Japan. The food certainly favors the latter - but that uniform didn't look like any Japanese army uniform I remember (it actually looks more like a Chinese Nationalist army uniform than anything). And did Japan conscript 15 year-olds, even in the 20's?

We're watching a show were WWII happended fifteen years too early, I don't think they care about getting the uniforms right. I'm pretty sure Kujo is back in Japan. Another hint that he's in the japanese army: his brothers in arms all have black hair. As we all know, Europeans don't have black hair in this anime.

[Zakoo]

I stopped breathing it was so ... amazing. The whole episode made me make a face I won't ever make.

So ... wonderful !