Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (old)

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by Majek

Besdies i never really understood why is it ALWAYS when i say" You are wrong! " that that automatically means " I'm right!" here on Animesuki.

Because it sounds very rough. I've already seen a lot of people post topics like that, and it just doesn't make for a 'good' discussion or argument. If the person is blatantly wrong like if they mis-state a fact, then it's valid and I suppose warranted. But if you're going to just throw accusations for the sake of discrediting someone... I dunno. Everyone is different.

The original argument was that Suzaku is a hypocrite because he labels Zero's methods as being 'wrong' when he himself killed his father... or something else that I can't remember.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

I think those days are gone and this is the Suzaku we will be getting from now on.

Wow what a scary face... too bad he keps thinking of his own business losing the view of the complex situation: now the Japanese will be able to regain indipendence and dignity and what does he do? He's too busy to avenge the death of his beloved one.
First he allowed Japan to become Area 11 by killing her father and giving to millions of people discrimination and such, now he's fighting against his people again as they're trying to regain what they've lost.
He's a traitor to all Japanese: with his "I'm right" crap caused endless suffering and only god knows how many deaths only because an idiot 11 years old boy thought it was better like that as Japan didn't stand a chance. And does he dare to criticize Lelouch for his actions? Go on like that Suzaku-chan...

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

Wow what a scary face... too bad he keps thinking of his own business losing the view of the complex situation: now the Japanese will be able to regain indipendence and dignity and what does he do? He's too busy to avenge the death of his beloved one.
First he allowed Japan to become Area 11 by killing her father and giving to millions of people discrimination and such, now he's fighting against his people again as they're trying to regain what they've lost.
He's a traitor to all Japanese: with his "I'm right" crap caused endless suffering and only god knows how many deaths only because an idiot 11 years old boy thought it was better like that as Japan didn't stand a chance. And does he dare to criticize Lelouch for his actions? Go on like that Suzaku-chan...

Logic is not Suzaku's forte =/

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

First he allowed Japan to become Area 11 by killing her father and giving to millions of people discrimination and such, now he's fighting against his people again as they're trying to regain what they've lost.

Hmmm? There was no Lelouch with his almighty Geass back then. And Japan would've lost the war anyhow since Britannia was only beginning to test its new invention "Knightmare frames". So that whole "he allowed Japan to become Area 11 by killing his father" bit is entirely invalid. The whole discrimination and death issue is a personal opinion. Some might prefer to "die" than "suffer from discrimination", so that's an independent judgment call and I won't debate it.

His intent in fighting his own people is not to ruin their chances at regaining their statuses; he is more focused on eliminating Zero, and then probably aiming to restore stability since there are civilians on the Britannian side as well who had no intention of becoming involved in this war. Let's not debate whether the civilians deserve it or not; it wasn't their decision to invade other countries.

He's a traitor to many Elevens since many of them had initially wanted to defend their own country. He sold them out on their ideals. But he did what an eleven year old with that kind of belief would do. Children act abruptly without considering the consequences. It's funny how an adult (I'm assuming you're over 18 or somewhere within that age range) can criticize children like that when they could have very likely done "stupid" things of a lesser degree themselves. Regardless of whether Suzaku did what he did or not, people would have died. It's seemingly evident that the soldiers continued to retaliate even when their leader died.

What's not warranted is Suzaku blatantly calling Zero "evil" early on. Zero had done nothing that was remotely evil, but I suppose that whole poison bomb incident was a bit loose. Zero hadn't even done anything relatively brutal afterwards as well, and that was why Suzaku was lightening up on him a bit. But it really all depends on what V.V. told him; V.V. can alter the story to portray Zero's character as dastardly or tell him the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Majek]

Yeah ALL the blame for ALLl the suffering is on his hands. To me the real traitors are the ones who made up the story about Prime Ministers suicide. That was a more deciding factor that the death itself.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

What's not warranted is Suzaku blatantly calling Zero "evil" early on.

What set off Suzaku then was the whole "ends justify the means" bit. Since he suffered mentally for so long after killing his father, he was opposed to this. We didn't know of his crime back then, of course, so it was natural to label him as an idealist. But in retrospect I think his reaction was understandable, since it was based less on ideals and more on personal experiences. None of that matters anymore, of course, what with the recent plot developments...

[Juvyniled]

I don't get how they're "traitors". Suzaku is the one who perpetrated the "crime". Kirihara I believe was the one who masked up the story to protect Suzaku, otherwise he would've been a major scapegoat and likely have been lynched (yes, yes, you people don't have to respond to this little statement and how that's what you wanted, etcetera etcetera).

The "suffering" subjected on to the Elevens is due to the empire. Plain and simple. They are wholly responsible for all the oppression dealt to numbers. Suzaku didn't make a damn difference in all of this and he holds himself accountable.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I don't get how they're "traitors". Suzaku is the one who perpetrated the "crime". Kirihara I believe was the one who masked up the story to protect Suzaku, otherwise he would've been a major scapegoat and likely have been lynched (yes, yes, you people don't have to respond to this little statement and how that's what you wanted, etcetera etcetera).

The "suffering" subjected on to the Elevens is due to the empire. Plain and simple. They are wholly responsible for all the oppression dealt to numbers. Suzaku didn't make a damn difference in all of this and he holds himself accountable.

It shows how they didn't really try to fight. Sure it was a major setback but they could've used it to their advantage if it was in their interest of fighting a war for Japan.

[Shinoto]

The thing is probably going to end on a cliffhanger type. That cliffhanger could be Nina's Nuke.

Corenilla, Gillford, and the other. Most likely are all going to just die.

Viletta is probably going to get saved by Orange Kun. She probably will get out of anmesia but still have memories of Ougi.

Karen most likely...You known she is going to get defeated by Suzuka when he goes on his rampage. The question is...Fatal or not.

I think we may actually get the first glimpse into the big picture.

[Juvyniled]

Genbu was the Prime Minister of Japan. He was the leadership figure that everyone would've looked towards for guidance. Kirihara is just a lower ranking official in all of this. If it's not coming directly out of Genbu's mouth, then they likely won't listen to it.

As I recall, others have stated that there was a major disagreement between groups/organizations of people on the matter which caused them to fight amongst themselves and so there was more of an internal breakdown than anything.

...
It's becoming a real trend in anime, but any character who's personal or past life isn't really delved much into is usually the first on the list of casulaties. For instance, Euphemia. Apart from the subtle meetings between her and Lelouch, and the few glimpses we get of her sharing a sibling relationship with Cornelia, all we have really been shown is what she has been doing to influence the current situation. We don't know much about Kallen's adolescence, but there has already been a segment within an episode dedicated primarily to her and how she has become so determined to do what she is doing now.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Shinoto

Corenilla, Gillford, and the other. Most likely are all going to just die.

I see no reason to believe that, and i'm not saying it just because i'm a huge Cornelia fan. Sure she is the next character in the way for Lelouch, though i know for a fact that she won't go down that easily --- we've seen in the past just how good she is, and now she has revenge on her mind, not to mention Suzaku on her side.

As for Guilford, he can't die --- he's clow reed.

[7Th]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

Wow what a scary face... too bad he keps thinking of his own business losing the view of the complex situation: now the Japanese will be able to regain indipendence and dignity and what does he do? He's too busy to avenge the death of his beloved one.
First he allowed Japan to become Area 11 by killing her father and giving to millions of people discrimination and such, now he's fighting against his people again as they're trying to regain what they've lost.
He's a traitor to all Japanese: with his "I'm right" crap caused endless suffering and only god knows how many deaths only because an idiot 11 years old boy thought it was better like that as Japan didn't stand a chance. And does he dare to criticize Lelouch for his actions? Go on like that Suzaku-chan...

He actually believes he's stopping Zero from engaging in more carnage as from V.V.'s declarations, who probably left out the "was an accident" part, and his conversation by the phone he pretty much understood the "geass"-ing of Euphie being on purpose, something that goes beyond his lovers death for Lelouch now planned the "killing" of thousands of non-related or guilty Japanese as a mean of achieving independence. If I was in his position I would fight against my friend too for based on his actions he doesn't deserves to be a leader, someone who believes in the sacrifice of innocent people for the greater good isn't particularly sane and there is factual scientific proof of my claim.

[OMG_Zerg_Rush]

Originally Posted by Shinoto

Karen most likely...You known she is going to get defeated by Suzuka when he goes on his rampage. The question is...Fatal or not.

I remember a while back someone posted a pic which had the Lancelot and Guren with upgraded parts. Gurens upgrade looked IIRC like a large sword on its small arm, so its possible that Guren may get trashed in the next 2 eps and get upgraded next season.

[mist2123]

Originally Posted by Majek

Yeah ALL the blame for ALLl the suffering is on his hands. To me the real traitors are the ones who made up the story about Prime Ministers suicide. That was a more deciding factor that the death itself.

i hate to say it but i dont agree with you.Suzaku was the traitor cuz did the killing of his father help japan; did it promote peace it was just plain murder with out a reason(a childish reason).

The people who cover it as a suicide just gave him mercy for doing it

[Juvyniled]

A childish reason? This isn't just another one of those spur of the moment decisions. For one thing, his father isn't going to listen to him, a mere child. Secondly, it's the difference between all-out war and whatever was the result of what he did. Suzaku had a reason. He just didn't consider all possible consequences that could result from his actions.

It depends on the way it was intended to help Japan. It didn't help Japan maintain its reputation and pride. It didn't help them stop all of the violence. But we will never know how many casualties there would have been in an all-out war (there's no atomic warheads to traumatize people and give them a signal to surrender).

[mist2123]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

A childish reason? This isn't just another one of those spur of the moment decisions. For one thing, his father isn't going to listen to him, a mere child. Secondly, it's the difference between all-out war and whatever was the result of what he did. Suzaku had a reason. He just didn't consider all possible consequences that could result from his actions.

It depends on the way it was intended to help Japan. It didn't help Japan maintain its reputation and pride. It didn't help them stop all of the violence. But we will never know how many casualties there would have been in an all-out war (there's no atomic warheads to traumatize people and give them a signal to surrender).

if u have two choices like this which would u choose

1st:live and the people of earth will die(except u)
2nd:die and the people of earth will live

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by mist2123

if u have two choices like this which would u choose

1st:live and the people of earth will die(except u)
2nd:die and the people of earth will live

that's imposssible until episode 50. and even then it's highly unlikely.

[evil|plushie]

I'd take the 1st choice.

But I don't see what that has to do with Suzakus choice.

[mist2123]

right but suzaku choose the 2nd one for his father but didnt care what would happen to the citizens and the way of life if they surrender

if that was me i would choose the 1st cuz i wana see people's suffering (it make makes me happy)

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by mist2123

if u have two choices like this which would u choose

1st:live and the people of earth will die(except u)
2nd:die and the people of earth will live

Like plushie said, how is this relevant?

If it means the whole world, I'd just die because there wouldn't be anyone else in the world.