Fate/Zero - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

He fucked his lord's wife -> lord killed him

To be more precise, he didn't save him. His lord could have easily saved his life, but purposely messed up and watched him die.

[Kaiba]

So is it Sol marrying for the money or Kayneth?

It's not for money. Both of them are from prestigious magical families, so if they combine, they'll be able to produce future great wizards. Remember Kayneth lecturing about the importance of a strong bloodline to create a strong magus in the first episode.

But despite the arranged marriage, Kayneth does sincerely love Sola, but not vice versa. Which creates problems with Lancer.

[Proto]

Anyway, I was somewhat disappointed again by the censoring of Caster's handiwork, this time all impact was lost from the scene

For the full vomit inducing effect buy the DVD's

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Anyway, I was somewhat disappointed again by the censoring of Caster's handiwork, this time all impact was lost from the scene

if you are familiar with LN you would have expect the censors. if you are not familiar, then you should realize by now, the majority of the scenes involving caster would not pass censor in any country. Casters intro was as tame as it gets.

[Haak]

Kayenth/Sola/Lancer's bit was really good but I think Rider/Waver's bit was far too much in just half an episode. I'm definitely gonna try and catch up to the LN counterpart as soon as I can since it's obvious they must've cut a lot out. It's probably best that they cencored Caster/Ryounosuke's handiwork though. I just read Ryunosuke's musical instrument bit and that was really disturbing. Great to see Waver finally display a bit of competency though. It was sorely needed.

[Marik]

Originally Posted by Vanish

Gotta lead a peaceful life before your life ends.

WTF

[Kaioshin Sama]

Another pretty solid episode. Lancer is looking more manly and awesome by the episode, and it's kind of a shame that he's gotten stuck with quite possibly one of the worst teams in the game. Kayneth was a fool and got ahead of himself and now he's paying the price, but this Sola chick seems less desirable yet. Anybody that betrays their fiance or whatever that easily and would stoop to that just to get his command seals and than physically and emotionally torture him to the point where they make HIM look sympathetic is bad news and it's kind of sad that Lancer seems to be falling for her act cause she reminds him a bit of someone he loved during his own heroic saga. Too bad he got the short end of the stick in getting paired up with total scumbags for masters.

What a contrast Irisviel paints by comparison though. For somebody who is not supposed to be human she is so compassionate, understanding and patient with Kiritsgu as he continues to struggle with his humanity. His team just seems to have no chance of coming apart internally.

Then of course there was the B-Plot with Rider that shows some character growth for Waver as well. He's becoming more of a man by the episode instead of just staying the complete wuss he was at the beginning and I think somebody somewhere is going to pay the price for underestimating him and Rider.

Overall a solid character development episode yet again after that rough bit I had getting into the characters for a while there. Everybody is pretty interesting now though and I'm looking forward to where this is going. Feels like I'm watching a Tomino anime now what with all the complex characters and story lines and dark tone to the show. The whole Caster killing children thing is kind of 30-Bunch level of brutality, the only difference is we actually see the dead corpses in Zeta Gundam and get the full impact whereas now I'm pretty sure current TV laws wouldn't allow for more than what we saw. However the point comes across anyway obviously and it's pretty clear who the heroes and villains of the story are now.

[jonli]

The music is really freaking good in this episode, I hope the OST comes out soon.

Anyway, good episode even though I expected more action. I thought we only have 13/14 episodes? We're already at the 8th and it seems like the meat isn't here yet (even though they did a good job establishing the relationships of the other masters this episode). I'm not complaining, I'm simply stating that they're spending good time letting me get attached to these characters, I'm just worried that things will get rushed near the end if they keep this pace up.

For the episode, Lancer is a great tragic hero. He's cursed with good looks (a mole)...must be tough for him to know that all the women he gets are just in love with him because of his beauty spot but not because of being him. If I were him I'd be pretty into Saber since she resisted the curse, and can see Lancer as himself. Sola is such...a fucking bitch, what's sad is that these whores actually exist in real life (and they plague our society like a cancer, male counterparts too). There really is no need for her to deliver the fact that Kayneth is a veggie in such a harsh manner, she could show a little bit of kindness. It's like she enjoys seeing her husband suffer, the type of people who likes to see others fail because they can't succeed themselves. I hope she gets skewered and minced to pieces. Well I guess Kayneth is just going to chill on a bed for the rest of the battle....he's had it rough.

Nice to see good Rider/Waver dynamic. Waver's an annoying kid but he's got a good heart, he got himself into a cruel war without really knowing the deal. He's going to learn a tough lesson and grow up to be a good man ...if he lives. I was a bit worried that they'd portray Rider as all brawn and no brains (he can't be no brains since he's Alexander), it's good to see that although Waver is still more of the brain of the two, Rider is still a bit of a tactician and eager to learn new things.

Things that I'm confused about
1) Why did Sola say her prana is what sustains Lancer? So Kayneth was the master but he let his wife do all the sex mana transfer? What's going on here?
2) I know that Kayneth used one seal out of three, I thought the mark just disappears...why does it look like it smeared off partially? Is this just a new aesthetic that they adopted for FZ or is there something else here?
3) I know Waver saw a bunch of kid corpses, but how bad was it exactly? Did the novel ever describe the scene or are we just left to our imagination?
4) When Kirei had a split flashback of Gilgamesh, was it a hint that he's starting to lose patience with Tokiomi's passive approach to the war? He wants to see bloodshed?

[sento]

Originally Posted by jonli

Anyway, good episode even though I expected more action. I thought we only have 13/14 episodes?

The first half is 13 episodes. The series will resume with a second cour in April.

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by jonli

The music is really freaking good in this episode, I hope the OST comes out soon.

Anyway, good episode even though I expected more action. I thought we only have 13/14 episodes? We're already at the 8th and it seems like the meat isn't here yet (even though they did a good job establishing the relationships of the other masters this episode). I'm not complaining, I'm simply stating that they're spending good time letting me get attached to these characters, I'm just worried that things will get rushed near the end if they keep this pace up.

For the episode, Lancer is a great tragic hero. He's cursed with good looks (a mole)...must be tough for him to know that all the women he gets are just in love with him because of his beauty spot but not because of being him. If I were him I'd be pretty into Saber since she resisted the curse, and can see Lancer as himself. Sola is such...a fucking bitch, what's sad is that these whores actually exist in real life (and they plague our society like a cancer, male counterparts too). There really is no need for her to deliver the fact that Kayneth is a veggie in such a harsh manner, she could show a little bit of kindness. It's like she enjoys seeing her husband suffer, the type of people who likes to see others fail because they can't succeed themselves. I hope she gets skewered and minced to pieces. Well I guess Kayneth is just going to chill on a bed for the rest of the battle....he's had it rough.

Nice to see good Rider/Waver dynamic. Waver's an annoying kid but he's got a good heart, he got himself into a cruel war without really knowing the deal. He's going to learn a tough lesson and grow up to be a good man ...if he lives. I was a bit worried that they'd portray Rider as all brawn and no brains (he can't be no brains since he's Alexander), it's good to see that although Waver is still more of the brain of the two, Rider is still a bit of a tactician and eager to learn new things.

Things that I'm confused about
1) Why did Sola say her prana is what sustains Lancer? So Kayneth was the master but he let his wife do all the sex mana transfer? What's going on here?
2) I know that Kayneth used one seal out of three, I thought the mark just disappears...why does it look like it smeared off partially? Is this just a new aesthetic that they adopted for FZ or is there something else here?
3) I know Waver saw a bunch of kid corpses, but how bad was it exactly? Did the novel ever describe the scene or are we just left to our imagination?
4) When Kirei had a split flashback of Gilgamesh, was it a hint that he's starting to lose patience with Tokiomi's passive approach to the war? He wants to see bloodshed?

There's a second season coming in the spring, so don't worry about it.

1. It was explained before that they are a special Master duo, with Sola providing the prana for Lancer so that Kayneth can go all-out with his magic attacks. Providing prana doesn't instantly mean she has sex with Lancer.
2. I think it's an aesthetic thing. I quite like it, actually.
3. The scene from the light novel for comparison (if it's okay):

Spoiler for Fate/zero Light Novel - Act 8 Part 3:

Becoming serious of the turn of events which were meant to be, Waver jumped down from the driver's seat of the chariot and stood on the floor, and activated his night vision skill. Instantly, his field of vision opened up like a fog clearing up, and the spectacle ahead of him which was masked by the darkness earlier, opened up as well.

Until the moment he tried to understand the situation around him, he had forgotten how he blocked the odor which had been hanging in the air of the sewer, even until here. He had been thinking all this while that the splashing sound of the water when he jumped onto the floor, was merely because of the sewage water.

“...Wh-wha―”

Waver Velvet is a magus. He prepared his heart for the every type of mystery whose reasoning were outside his ethics.

He knew that the ritual he was participating in now was one with unparalleled brutal murders, and thus, did not spare any sweet feeling towards them. If he had not conceptualize himself seeing dead bodies piling up, he would not have any tinge of hope of staying in this fight.

Because of that, Waver resolved to never be shaken, whatever the “death” which might spring out surprisingly into his sight. Because this Fuyuki is the battleground, it is natural to see dead bodies.

Even if their numbers were enormous, even if they were to be mutilated till losing their entire human appearance―in the end, corpses are still but corpses. He would frown at such goriness and atrocity, but there was nothing he could not tolerate.

He had been thinking about this. Until this very instant.

The limits of Waver's imagination were that corpses were but remains of human bodies in the end; nothing but the result of their destruction. However, the scene before his very eyes now, surpassed his previous thought completely.

As an illustration, that place was just like a variety shop.

There were furniture. There were clothes as well. Musical instruments; cutlery. Various items uses of which were not understood at all; they probably were just pictures or artworks. The enthusiasm of the creator devoting himself completely into designing them diligently, and his profligate sense of fun could be perceived.

Unmistakably, the craftsman who made these ceaselessly loved his raw materials, and the manufacturing process itself.

They understood that there was someone who violently discovered pleasures. That might be the person who committed those murders. But the things in this blood-stained space were not corpses.

There wasn't a single “destroyed remains” here. Everything was a new creation; an art. Their lives as “human beings”, their carcass as “human beings” were completely discarded meaninglessly during the process of the art―that was the entirety of the slaughter at that place.

Murders which were done creatively to amuse himself; this behavior which created art by means of death, had far exceeded the maximum level Waver's mind could possibly take. Above simple emotions like horror and disgust, at such a graphically realistic and alarming shock, Waver could not even stand straight. Before he realized, he was already on the bloodstained floor on both his hands and knees, regurgitating all the contents of his stomach.

Rider descended from his chariot. Standing beside Waver, he sighed deeply.

“That's why, eh...I've asked you to stop, but...”

“Shut up!!”

At the gigantic Servant's coughing murmur―within his demoralized heart, the last bit of self-dignity was scattered into fire sparks.

His intense outburst of fury had no reason or logic whatsoever. Kneeling here, his weakness was detestable. Of all times, for this weakness to be revealed in front of his Servant was an utterly mortifying humiliation.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

It's not for money. Both of them are from prestigious magical families, so if they combine, they'll be able to produce future great wizards. Remember Kayneth lecturing about the importance of a strong bloodline to create a strong magus in the first episode.

But despite the arranged marriage, Kayneth does sincerely love Sola, but not vice versa. Which creates problems with Lancer.

Sigh~ Must be loosing my touch. Hard crowd we have here.

[Randomzx]

Originally Posted by jonli

Things that I'm confused about
1) Why did Sola say her prana is what sustains Lancer? So Kayneth was the master but he let his wife do all the sex mana transfer? What's going on here?

No you got it wrong, using sex is the LAST resort of mage for mana transfer, if either aren’t willing for the Servant to feed on humans.
Usually the Master is the one supplying the mana by just living, but Kayneth found a way to have another Mage supply the mana, while he holds the command seals. This allows him to freely use all of his magecraft for battle.

Originally Posted by jonli

2) I know that Kayneth used one seal out of three, I thought the mark just disappears...why does it look like it smeared off partially? Is this just a new aesthetic that they adopted for FZ or is there something else here?

One of the command seal is gone, don’t really know what the smear is, but I suspect that the inactive design of the command is partially damage due to last episodes (might be the magic circuit that link to it).

Originally Posted by jonli

3) I know Waver saw a bunch of kid corpses, but how bad was it exactly? Did the novel ever describe the scene or are we just left to our imagination? ?

Lets just say that Uryuu and Caster create ‘artwork’ is reminiscent of works from Silent Hill.

Originally Posted by jonli

4) When Kirei had a split flashback of Gilgamesh, was it a hint that he's starting to lose patience with Tokiomi's passive approach to the war? He wants to see bloodshed?

No, he was thinking that Gilgamesh have some point that Tokiomi was boring. With Tokiomi still deciding to continue on with his Hikkikomori behavior.

[Akarin]

Oh Lancers....their bad luck is so big it can't be contained in one person, it transfers over to their master. Being Lancer's masters (Kayneth and Bazzet) are suffering in F/SN and F/Z

Originally Posted by Alaya

Another victim to the Love spot... Can't really blame Sola-Ul though, Diarmund's curse is too strong.

Diarmuid's mystic face is just a level C skill, any average magus can easily blocked it. Sola already was smitten with Lancer and willingly allow the charm to affect her.

Originally Posted by Kokukirin

Assassins are so weak. Can they do anything besides spying and dying?

Assassin, Caster, Rider, and Berserker class are supposed to be weak. It is the families of the beginning's (Tohsaka, Makiri, and Einzbern) plan to win the holy grail war with Saber, Archer, and Lancer class.

Originally Posted by ookamigirl

Sola was pretty desperate to obtain that command seal and a servant.
Guess she has motives of her own.

Originally Posted by Marik

What is Kayneth's wife true desire? I wonder.

She wanted to use command seal to make Lancer love her.

[Marik]

Where are these pictures from? Are they from some game?

[Jean Claymore]

Originally Posted by Marik

Where are these pictures from? Are they from some game?

F/SN's VN and F/Z's LN

[Akarin]

Originally Posted by Marik

Where are these pictures from? Are they from some game?

From Fate/Zero's LN and Fate/Stay's VN.

[Randomzx]

Originally Posted by Lost My Music

Oh Lancers....their bad luck is so big it can't be contained in one person, it transfers over to their master. Being Lancer's masters (Kayneth and Bazzet) are suffering in F/SN and F/Z

Keep in mind F/SN Lancer's stats is abit nerfed from having a certain master and other story related restrictions.

[Marik]

Can anyone give me link with the novels that are translated into English, please?

[Cyz]

Poor Lancer, must be tough to bear that charm magic. As much as he tries to avoid it, looks like fate is not letting him. Sola's obsession is scary Did Kayneth felt that his finger getting bent or did he also lost his sensation?

[Shiryuu]

The only fight scene in the episode and it's done in pitch black darkness. Really?

This anime really hates fighting doesn't it.