(L) Red Garden

[aliensporebomb]

This series has me blown away.

Now to see the aftermath of the revelations and maybe we'll get closer to the truth.

[DoReMiFaSo]

Originally Posted by Guido

Spoiler for The curse:

According to Hervé, Animus was responsible to inflict the curse to his family and clan ages ago, because Animus stole one of two Cursed books that Hervés' ancestors owned, and his clan is at war with them to retrieve it back.

However, the headmistress and JC addressed them as monsters that shouldn't exist in the world at all while Hervé counters that it was them who turned his clan into beasts.

Which side tells the truth, it is left ambiguous as of now. But, if you want my opinion I sincerely believe that both clans are unwilling to admit and take responsibility for their own crimes and mistakes to each other.

Maybe Animus had its reasons to get the books whatever the cost whether for good or evil purposes is uncertain.

I thought it was the other way around. Herve's clan stole the cursed book. That's why Animus put the curse on them. And now they are fighting each other for the other book.

[Impz]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Resigned to the fact? I would be very much resigned to living an eternal life, thank you very muh. There must be some other effects of the "vampire" curse because as the other curse seems much worse. A weird diet and a lot of lemon juice is way better than turning into a beast.
It's interesting that Herve calls Animus "those women" and does not count JC as one of them. What happened to the Animus men, provided there were any in the beginnig of the hostilities, I wonder. I also wonder whether the Animus members have to die before getting their superpowers.
Episode 17 should be an emotional affair - not only do the girls will have to deal with Herve's shocking revelation but they all have other problems with their relatives or boyfriends.

That seems to be the case and I hope it will remain so. A big part of the appeal of Red Garden is the lack of clear "good guys" and "bad guys"



Nice to see I am not the only with the opinion that Red Garden is the best from the current crop of anime.

Yes, the thing about Red Garden is the lack of good or bad, which realistically portrays the decisions that the girls take and how they are eventual pawns in this survival game of two clans. I can say that Red Garden is yet another series that is under-rated due to its unique form of graphics. In a way, it is just slightly less understated than Simoun, another wonderful series.

I just can't wait for episode 18 to appear, since I just finished watching episode 17 which is fabulous!

[MrProphet]

Jesus... this is probably the first time that I can admit that blood in anime can be both scary and realistic.

You won't believe what happened...

Spoiler for episode 18:

- Herve and Emilio dump Lise around the beach on Coney Island, where Herve urges Lise to drown herself in the sea.
- The old cop notices Lise driven by in Emilio's car as he was staking out Vivaleo HQ and immediately connects her to his "ghost girls".
- When he arrives to Coney Island, Lise is already in the sea. He catches her before she drowns, but then the Dolors arrive en masse and kill the old man.
- You won't believe how creepy the Grandfather can get. You think Herve was nuts? You'll see where he gets that crazy streak!



- Meanwhile, Rose is still brooding over the news from the last episodes. The girls, however, do manage to patch things up between themselves and agree to act as a team from now on.
- The four attend JC's funeral, as he is burried somewhere in the woods adjacent to JC's and Lula's trailer home. Lula reminisces about JC and breaks down ones more at his grave.
- After that, the girls visit Lise's grave and have a bonding session together.

Incredible. Rie Tanaka once again rules the day and the ending of the episode was chilling. I was really impressed by the psychological impact of this episode. It was truly riveting.

It's interesting that Herve calls Animus "those women" and does not count JC as one of them. What happened to the Animus men, provided there were any in the beginning of the hostilities, I wonder. I also wonder whether the Animus members have to die before getting their superpowers.

Some of this is addressed in episode 18.

Spoiler:

JC and other men as humans, while the women are Animus. Animus' bodies stop aging after they die, thus JC is 15-20 years younger than Lula, even though they look around the same age.

This was already hinted in the previous episodes, when the policemen found out that the dead Animus girls look younger than some of their own earlier photographs. This means that the artificial Animus bodies are prepared beforehand and that they do not age once they "shift".

As to how the male servants of the Animus get their powers, that is unknown. I would assume that the Animus use their remaining Cursed Tome to grand such superhuman abilities to those who serve them, like JC.

And as a sidenote, for those who are unaware, the word animus in Jungian psychology signifies the unconscious masculinity hidden in the soul of every woman. Animus projects itself as an archetype of an authoritative male, the categorical "wisdom of the forefathers", so to speak.

[ShellyKukai]

Episode 16 was awesome. I have no words.
But I'm still uncertain about the ownership of the tomes.
Which side committed the theft and against whom?
Why are both sides being punished? If one side obtained the second copy would the opposing side meet some sort of instantaneous annihilation?

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by ShellyKukai

But I'm still uncertain about the ownership of the tomes.

Delors owned both Cursed Tomes. Animus stole one Tome and cursed the Delors. Delors cursed them back.

You need one Cursed Tome to cast a curse. You need two Cursed Tomes to dispel a curse.

Delors and Animus want to get the second Tome in order to dispel the curse put on their respective families. I would assume that they will not dispel the curse laid upon their enemies. So, whoever gets both Tomes will live on, while the other side would eventually die.

What I do not understand is the nature of the Animus curse. Delors are obviously made to go mad and to awaken their inner beast. But what happens to the Animus? Is it the apathy and the desire to die that the other four girls suffered? Is it the loss of memories that Herve alluded to? Is it the inability to age?

[fignae]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Delors owned both Cursed Tomes. Animus stole one Tome and cursed the Delors. Delors cursed them back.

According to whom? That's not spoilery for post-ep 16, I hope.

[MrProphet]

No, that's all according to 1-16. 8)

I won't spoil 17-18 in open view out of simple courtesy.

[fignae]

Okay. Just checking. But if what you said is based on 16, then that's just Herve's take on it. We should bear that in mind too.

[7Th]

Originally Posted by fignae

According to whom? That's not spoilery for post-ep 16, I hope.

No, they say it in episode 16, which seemed to reflect the Animus objectives in quite a villianesque fashion, since they surely have other objectives for stealing the tome in the first place and having been placed the curse upon them is just a detriment to their shady mission. I already ruined myself episode 17, which wasn’t that bad since not much happened, but going by Prophet’s description of 18 I guess I’ll stay the furthest I can from those tempting spoiler tags.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by fignae

Okay. Just checking. But if what you said is based on 16, then that's just Herve's take on it. We should bear that in mind too.

Well, the Grandfather also thinks so.

Back in episode 10 he said that they must "recover" the Cursed Tome. Herve also used the word "recover", which would signify that they were originally in possession of it.

Lula also mentioned the curse before, so thus far it all checks out.

[Matrim]

Back in episode 10 he said that they must "recover" the Cursed Tome. Herve also used the word "recover", which would signify that they were originally in possession of it.

Lula also mentioned the curse before, so thus far it all checks out.

Yes that explanation seems right on money, but it wouldn't surprise if no one stole anything and the clans just want the power that the possession of both tomes would give them. Although that would probably be one twist too many.

I can say that Red Garden is yet another series that is under-rated due to its unique form of graphics.

Yes, and I would also add that any sort of uniqueness in the anime industry these days seems to repel more viewers than it attracts. Or maybe that's just me having an elitism complex and being annoyed by the lack of popularity of my favourite shows.

[aliensporebomb]

It's really quite a compelling story though, graphics aside and perhaps the
unusual graphics actually make the story have a unique atmosphere all its
own really.

Now the bit that comes to the fore in my mind is that no matter who cursed
the tomes or stole them, ultimately, we've got human beings, Delors and
Animus all living on the same planet.

Currently, we have Delors and Animus fighting each other - if one were to
win might they focus their attention on us as the next group of people to
fight?

[fignae]

On RGTV #23, Shintani Ryouko mentions that the Red Garden manga will be running in a monthly magazine, Comic Birz. There's a short introduction, in Japanese, on the site, which I didn't bother with figuring out, but the characters certainly look different.

Does anyone know more about this?

In February 16th's RG Radio (Tanaka Rie's show), Kobayashi Megumi guests and they talk about Paula, saying that it feels like she loves Kate. At first when she started the character, she was only told that Paula was worried about Kate. But later on, she was told that Paula really likes her. Then they agree that same-sex love seems beautiful. The radio show is beginning to resemble RGTV, with the interview.

[Sinestra]

Episode 16 was the most compelling one yet. Up till now we have seen pretty one sided fatalities. I always thought it was weird that JC was the only one male on the Animus side he was Lula's brother. Unfortunately we learn this just before JC has his ass handed to him by Herve, but i suppose JC can rest knowing that he died saving his sister.

I want to touch on the 2 cops that are investigating the girls death. It seems every episode they are getting closer and closer to the truth. The fact that the older cop pointed out that one of the girls in the picture had short hair and in an after picture her hair had grown 8 inches in 3 days, we all know thats impossible. My prediction is the cops will eventually stumble upon the truth and end up getting in the thick of it.

Kate has learned some horrible truths from Herve. Apparently there is no way for the girls to return to normal. They 2 choices one is two lose their memories and remain in those bodies never aging, or they can die by their enemies hands. Needless to say being killed is not a favorable consolation prize, and living forever would mean you must disregard family and friends for fear of your secret. I for one think that Herve is telling the truth due to the appearance of what i would call the sisterhood. By the way the headmistress can kick serious ass and seems to have been doing it for a long time. The girls are going to have to make some hard choices. Kate now knows Emilio is just like Herve there is no way she is going to let Emilio near her sister let alone allow the marriage to take place.

IMO Herve has the upper hand at the moment not just with the defeating of JC but with now knowing the location of their headquarters being the girls school. Im still curious as to how Paula fits into the picture maybe she has powers as well or is just preview to the knowledge. Also on a side note it looks the rest of girls are getting use to their powers the remaining 3 girls jump up on to the building with no trouble.

My theory on what happen to Animus's men has something to do with the curse. If i remember correctly in the beginning of the series Lula said each clan cursed each other. Maybe that curse has something to do with my there are no men on the Animus side. Im really interested in the 2 cursed book we know it can lift the curse but what other secrets do they hold?

Im enjoying RG more and more now that the real story has begun and as for Rachel's relationship with Rook going down the tubes, well..........maybe its for the best right now she is going to be uber busy with these new events. Besides hes just being a dick at the moment he didnt even address the fact that hes been seeing Rachels friend.

[moneenerd]

this show, for me anyways, was getting really weak starting at like episode 13. episode 16 totally kicked me in the junk. what a fuckin sweet final battle. and i love the whole "are we fighting for the bad or good guys?" plot twist thats been introduced.

[MrProphet]

Homosexuality banzai!

Oh, and Kate... you stupid, stupid idiot woman! How could anyone be so clueless?

Spoiler:

LOL, awesome episode!

- Delors kill Neil, that black cop, after he follows Lise who has somehow slaughtered a whole van full of Delor men.
- Rachel continues angsting vis a vis Luke.
- Rose falls ill waiting for her father in the snow.
- Claire visits her brother

- Kate has the most scenes by far.

+ First of all, she has a coming out session with Paula. Yes, Kate is getting slightly gay for Paula. Yes, Kate is obviously going through a "all men are pigs" phase following Herve's betrayal. Yes, Paula confesses her love to Kate and they do some tearful cuddling together. 8)



+ Before Neil gets killed, he phones Kate and informs her that he saw Lise alive, kidnapped by people from Vivaleo. Kate then googles Vivaleo on her MacBook (cool!) and finds stuff about them.

+ OK, here comes the stupid part. Kate gets to the Vivaleo building and calls Herve about Lise. Herve confirms that Lise is alive that refuses to do anything. But then a bunch of men in black approach Kate and basically kidnap her in broad daylight. She is then brought to evil-looking Bender and clearly wants to do something evil to her.



+ Herve and Emilio rush to save Kate.

OK, Kate is an idiot, but I am looking forward to seeing Bender get manhandled. 8)

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Spoiler for episode 19:

- Kate has the most scenes by far.

+ First of all, she has a coming out session with Paula. Yes, Kate is getting slightly gay for Paula. Yes, Kate is obviously going through a "all men are pigs" phase following Herve's betrayal. Yes, Paula confesses her love to Kate and they do some tearful cuddling together. 8)

I just wrenched my shoulder patting myself on the back. I called that one pages and pages ago.

[DoReMiFaSo]

Wow, there are lots of OMG momemts in ep 19.

Spoiler:

I didn't expect that other cop to die so easily.

And what did Lise do in the van? Did she kill all those men in the van and try to escape?

OMG, the confession. Paula and Kate. That was emotional. Ultra cool. Didn't really expect that to happen.

And OMG, Kate was kidnapped by the Delors, but it was stupid of her. I thought she has super powers. She should put up a good fight against those men.

Great episode! Looking forward to the next one.

[Matrim]

I am somewhat disappointed by the lack of a confrontation between Lula and girls. I expected them to refuse to be on the side of Animus which did not really happen. But the whole angst fest that is episode 17 rather moving and the preview for the next one seems really promising.
So, if I get it correctly, Lucy, the maths teacher, also has experienced memory loss (es)? Or she simply didn't mind not remembering much about lost comrades? I got a bit confused by the sub. Now that she has confirmed Herve's words, I can understand fully why JC was so suprised when Lula told the girls they could get back to normal in episode six.I rewatched it a few days ago and with the benefot of hindsight it seemed so sad even if I doubted Herve's claims a little at the time.
The two policemen are ubiquitous. It was weird seeing them inspect the damaged scaffolding on the building site - aren't they detectives who investigate murders or at least something more serious than damaged property?
Rachel was quite cool, I guess her impulsive nature made her think a memory loss would not be that given her current predicament. it's interesting how she was so depressed when Lula lied to them about their original bodies, yet now she took the news in a much better way than the rest.
Claire's fast thinking which spared Rose the truth when they were in the car was a great moment. I think a very interesting twist would be Rose finding some way to escape losing her memories - after all she has been the most useless one in the fights, she has to do something important, right?