(L) Red Garden

[David Johnston]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Well, the Grandfather also thinks so.

Back in episode 10 he said that they must "recover" the Cursed Tome. Herve also used the word "recover", which would signify that they were originally in possession of it.

Lula also mentioned the curse before, so thus far it all checks out.

I would actually be very surprised if it doesn't turn out that they were originally part of the same family and quarreled over who was the rightful inheritor of the Tomes.

[Impz]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Jesus... this is probably the first time that I can admit that blood in anime can be both scary and realistic.

You won't believe what happened...

Spoiler for episode 18:

- Herve and Emilio dump Lise around the beach on Coney Island, where Herve urges Lise to drown herself in the sea.
- The old cop notices Lise driven by in Emilio's car as he was staking out Vivaleo HQ and immediately connects her to his "ghost girls".
- When he arrives to Coney Island, Lise is already in the sea. He catches her before she drowns, but then the Dolors arrive en masse and kill the old man.
- You won't believe how creepy the Grandfather can get. You think Herve was nuts? You'll see where he gets that crazy streak!



- Meanwhile, Rose is still brooding over the news from the last episodes. The girls, however, do manage to patch things up between themselves and agree to act as a team from now on.
- The four attend JC's funeral, as he is burried somewhere in the woods adjacent to JC's and Lula's trailer home. Lula reminisces about JC and breaks down ones more at his grave.
- After that, the girls visit Lise's grave and have a bonding session together.

Incredible. Rie Tanaka once again rules the day and the ending of the episode was chilling. I was really impressed by the psychological impact of this episode. It was truly riveting.



Some of this is addressed in episode 18.

Spoiler:

JC and other men as humans, while the women are Animus. Animus' bodies stop aging after they die, thus JC is 15-20 years younger than Lula, even though they look around the same age.

This was already hinted in the previous episodes, when the policemen found out that the dead Animus girls look younger than some of their own earlier photographs. This means that the artificial Animus bodies are prepared beforehand and that they do not age once they "shift".

As to how the male servants of the Animus get their powers, that is unknown. I would assume that the Animus use their remaining Cursed Tome to grand such superhuman abilities to those who serve them, like JC.

And as a sidenote, for those who are unaware, the word animus in Jungian psychology signifies the unconscious masculinity hidden in the soul of every woman. Animus projects itself as an archetype of an authoritative male, the categorical "wisdom of the forefathers", so to speak.

Spoiler for ep18:

Red garden cemented its place as one of my favorite series, after the death of the policeman and the humanizing of Lula. It is now clear why she did not tell them about the memories being forgotten. She has not come to terms in protecting JC and her own memory lapse. She is perhaps similar to the four girls too, but one that has forgotten her past.

[Guido]

My God, how poignant episode 17 turned out.

Spoiler:

I was expecting Rachel to be the one who would violently burst upon finding out the truth, but it was actually Rose's reaction, which sent me the shrilling alarm all over my senses.
And she has reasons to react that way, because upon finding her father and his reasons to take his time to return to the family she was starting to gaze upon a tiny light of hope for her happy future only to dwindle.

What is most painful is the fact that both Claire and Kate could not bring themselves to gather the courage to tell her right away, because both were hurt to take Rose's moment of happiness on that moment. But I knew very how keeping the secret lead to the shattered outcome, that only caused strain and friction among the girls particularly between Rachel and Rose, who started to get on friendly terms with each other, and provoked Rose distancing herself from the group.

My opinion is that the episode showcases what was lost and what losses are about to come that both sides are experiencing. The forthcoming loss of Anna to Hervé, which the coughing blood means a doomed outcome. The forthcoming loss of the four girls' memories and pitiful for Rose, who has found and made amends with her father.

Emilio lost Emma and cannot return back due to Kate knowing, but it came in timing that they showed Emilio's soft, human side worrying and tender Anna, who was agonizing.

You want my opinion? The most callous figure ever presented in the show and remains excluded from the ensuing pain and sorrow is nonetheless than Dr. Bender and more so than Herve's grandfather. The bastard has all his hands tied and ears pricked on Lise this and Lise that, that gives a rat jack whether Anna is there or not.

[Impz]

a little slow, but if anyone is keen

Red garden episode 18 summary + thoughts is up.

Spoiler for thoughts on 18:

I am totally surprised how the old policeman was clinically removed. I guess his curiosity and underestimation of the powers have resulted in his death. I wonder if Lise was under any drugs when she is walking toward the sea. I have a feeling that she is more like in a total state of shock rather than under some form of medication, even though the look in her eyes, especially the look after she realized where she actually is. That look will be in my head for a while.

I also wonder about the fate of the girls if they are to find out that Lise is in fact alive. Considering that the grandfather has already discovered where Lise is, she will definitely be locked up in a more secure area this time and I swear that the grandfather will probably realize who are the people who have brought her out. I do want to see the impending conflict between Herve, Emilio with the rest of the clan. It will probably be interesting.

This episode also brings to an endearing philosophy of life that the four girls finally embraced. In a way, they are living a borrowed life that seems to bring them nowhere. However, does life really bring you anywhere in the first place? I believe that the girls have finally resolved their worries. Even if they have to fight, as long as they live their lives wholesomely, will anyone say that they are not living as well? That is perhaps the essence of life. Even though they are forced to this situation, they are definitely living life to the fullest.

For that, I am glad for them.

I also enjoy the humanizing of Lula. For most of the series, we see her doing ruthless and harsh things. We finally see that her harshness is not due to the fact that she is used to the situation or her character. It is in fact her fear and confusion that her brother is someone that she could not remember. It must have hurt so much to her brother, JC, who is often in despair over the lack of memories of her sister. I cannot imagine the pain for the both of them and he died prematurely without regaining back the memories.

Still, Lula is living in the past and I hope that the death of JC will bring her back to a more normal life, if it’s possible. I also wonder about the relationship of the four girls toward their closed ones. In their own words, I believe that even if they forgot who they were, their family members will always be there for them. I will be hopeful that the ending will at least be bittersweet for the four of them.

[fignae]

Originally Posted by Matrim

So, if I get it correctly, Lucy, the maths teacher, also has experienced memory loss (es)? Or she simply didn't mind not remembering much about lost comrades? I got a bit confused by the sub.

The sub seemed correct, though. She's lost so many comrades that she can't remember them any more. As a result, she cannot sympathize with their pain.

Rachel was quite cool, I guess her impulsive nature made her think a memory loss would not be that given her current predicament. it's interesting how she was so depressed when Lula lied to them about their original bodies, yet now she took the news in a much better way than the rest.

I think she's just depressed enough that she can't go any lower. It might also be an impulsive speech meant to cover up her true feelings, or said before she sorted out what she truly felt. Or perhaps she never really believed they could return to their bodies in the first place.

[Matrim]

Or perhaps she never really believed they could return to their bodies in the first place.

That doesn't seem too likely considering the obvious change that Rachel underwent from being ultra-depressed in episode five and six to having fun with the rest at Claire's place in episode eigth, though. At the very least she seemed to believe there is a good possibility they will get back to normal, so one would expect more of a shock at the news that this was not going to be the case.

And Lucy says she doesn't want to remember even if she could. Which is somewhat puzzling considering Herve says the memory loss would happen if Animus wins uses the two books. I am dying to know whether the rest of Animus members have already "died" once and whether Lucy's memory loss is an effect of the curse or her (presumably) long life has made it difficult to remember her cmorades from the past.

You want my opinion? The most callous figure ever presented in the show and remains excluded from the ensuing pain and sorrow is nonetheless than Dr. Bender and more so than Herve's grandfather. The bastard has all his hands tied and ears pricked on Lise this and Lise that, that gives a rat jack whether Anna is there or not.

The doctor is a bastard but let's not forget that reallistically he cannot really do anything to save Anna and that his boss, namely Herve's grandfather, has made Lise the priority project.

[Sorrow-K]

Ok, finally caught up with GG's subs again.

Ep 16.

That slipped into melodrama when

Spoiler:

JC died.

The problem with that particularly death scene was that we knew virtually nothing about that particular character, so his death doesn't really mean a great deal to the audience. Which is funny, since almost every other character in this series has received an incredible amount of depth, and had that been anyone else, it'd probably have been a really dramatic scene.

Other than that, I think I can finally safely say that, barring some major mishap on the producers part between now and the end, this is easily the best Gonzo series since Gankutsuou.

[Matrim]

It's becoming customary for Red Garden to hit really hard at the end of the episodes. I actually wish I hadn't read even the non-spoiler part of MrProphet's post about episode 18 but even so the policeman's death was brutal.

I loved the way the four girls decided to move on and live their lives to the fullest. When the snow started to fall the scene with them around Lise's grave reminded of the ending of Gunslinger Girl, so bittersweet and beautiful.

It is in fact her fear and confusion that her brother is someone that she could not remember. It must have hurt so much to her brother, JC, who is often in despair over the lack of memories of her sister. I cannot imagine the pain for the both of them and he died prematurely without regaining back the memories.

Are you sure about that? According to Shinsen's sub Lula never actually lost her memories but she was terribly afraid of even thinking about this inevitability so she never mentioned it to the girls.

Herve was so keen on forcing his clan to fight with Animus ASAP, why didn't he leave Lise at the school where he thinks Animus' Headquarters is? Or he could have called Kate and left, setting up a fight between the clans for the possession of Lise.

It finally dawned on me that Lise is probably suffering from the same kind of memory loss everyone is talking about. But she has managed to remember some bits of her memories - does that mean it's reversible but Animus does not know that?

[MrProphet]

No, Lise is medicated by the Delors. Her memory loss stems from that, not from other matters.

Animus would only lose their memories when the Cursed Tomes are brought together, so for now, all of them are safe. But I also think that the girls are overdramatizing the situation. Why would they lose ALL of their memories and not just those connected to being animus? And what does it even mean, all memories? Would they regress to childlike state, unable to perform even basic human tasks?

That sounds far-fetched. Why would the Animus fight, if winning is equivalent to complete and utter loss? It seems more likely that the memory loss would be partial, affecting only specific subjects, not universal.

[Matrim]

Yes, why would Animus use the two books to get back to their original bodies if the price for that would be the loss of all their memories? The only explanation would be that their curse is a much greater burden than what we have seen so far. Not that we have seen much, apart from the lack of males in the clan and the need to eat lemons.

[DoReMiFaSo]

I thought if Animus lose (meaning Delors get the two tomes), they will die. They are fighting to stay alive, albeit they will lose their memory when they win. And they won't get their orginal bodies back even if they win. They will stay the way they are until the end of the world.

[Matrim]

They are fighting to stay alive, albeit they will lose their memory when they win. And they won't get their orginal bodies back even if they win. They will stay the way they are until the end of the world.

You are right, I was wrong in thinking that would be the price to pay for a return of their bodies. But if all Animus members lose their memories they won't even know that the tomes have a great power which makes their fight rather pointless. What do they intend to do - leave a message to themselves, explaining the past events? That would be too weird.
If they want simply to stay alive, they could just keep a low profile and hide from the Delors, not kill beast men so often.
I wonder what will happen if both tomes are destroyed? Maybe this will undo the curses and will allow the Animus members to keep their memories. An ending in which one of the factions acquires the great power of the Tomes looks too open to me, it will make us want to see what they will do with it.

[MrProphet]

Episode 20 spoilers. Rather big events afoot, so contain yourself if you don't watch the raws. Although, it has some pretty hilarious stuff too.

Spoiler:

LAWL! Shinku is the leader of the Animus! 8))))))



I always knew she was evil. 8)

Animus women are going to war against Delor men. And there are a lot of them!



In other news: Grandpa is dead, Bender is dead, Emilio is dead, Lise is crazy.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Impz

a little slow, but if anyone is keen

Red garden episode 18 summary + thoughts is up.

Spoiler for thoughts on 18:

I am totally surprised how the old policeman was clinically removed. I guess his curiosity and underestimation of the powers have resulted in his death. I wonder if Lise was under any drugs when she is walking toward the sea. I have a feeling that she is more like in a total state of shock rather than under some form of medication, even though the look in her eyes, especially the look after she realized where she actually is. That look will be in my head for a while.

I also wonder about the fate of the girls if they are to find out that Lise is in fact alive. Considering that the grandfather has already discovered where Lise is, she will definitely be locked up in a more secure area this time and I swear that the grandfather will probably realize who are the people who have brought her out. I do want to see the impending conflict between Herve, Emilio with the rest of the clan. It will probably be interesting.

This episode also brings to an endearing philosophy of life that the four girls finally embraced. In a way, they are living a borrowed life that seems to bring them nowhere. However, does life really bring you anywhere in the first place? I believe that the girls have finally resolved their worries. Even if they have to fight, as long as they live their lives wholesomely, will anyone say that they are not living as well? That is perhaps the essence of life. Even though they are forced to this situation, they are definitely living life to the fullest.

For that, I am glad for them.

I also enjoy the humanizing of Lula. For most of the series, we see her doing ruthless and harsh things. We finally see that her harshness is not due to the fact that she is used to the situation or her character. It is in fact her fear and confusion that her brother is someone that she could not remember. It must have hurt so much to her brother, JC, who is often in despair over the lack of memories of her sister. I cannot imagine the pain for the both of them and he died prematurely without regaining back the memories.

Still, Lula is living in the past and I hope that the death of JC will bring her back to a more normal life, if it’s possible. I also wonder about the relationship of the four girls toward their closed ones. In their own words, I believe that even if they forgot who they were, their family members will always be there for them. I will be hopeful that the ending will at least be bittersweet for the four of them.

The power of Red Garden is that it delivers shocking surprises when one least expects it at the moment it soothes you deeply that the concerns are finally settling.

For episode 18 I saw two powerful scenes.

The first one is that the bonding and unity of the four girls is finally sealed now that they have casted away their major concerns about the "truth" of their lives. Their peace of heart lies to live their lives to the fullest without regrets and undoings, and even if they'll end up losing everyone and everything they have in the means of their memories, the feelings will remain there warming up.
Their love from their families and their friends.

Lula kept the truth hidden from them, because I believe she wanted the girls to live without worries and being attached to the things that keep them human.

I think that the girls learned from Lula's own loss for JC and her memories to strive on with their lives.

The second one was the vacant and creepy Lise walking in the beach. I knew that the inspector was done for, but they actually gave time to prepare the audience for what was about to come.
His death came not shocking since the signs were all settled the moment that the Grandpa and his henchmen arrived at the beach full armed. No. What was shocking was the awesome but psycho effect of his blood gushing all over as torrent onto Lise, and then once she got the gist of what had happened, she snapped crazily.

Mr. Impz, if you want my opinion I think that Lise was already losing her senses right after Hervé cynically disclosed to her that he was dating Kate about five episodes ago. The drugs likely were just keeping her from breaking down or prevent a sort of psychological depression.

You ask me? I have this suspicious hunch that the Lise will turn out as the last antagonist for the four girls to face.

[DoReMiFaSo]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Spoiler:

LAWL! Shinku is the leader of the Animus! 8))))))

Spoiler:

LOL. I didn't really notice it until you mentioned it. Hahaha.

I guess Paula is not an Animus since she's not in the picture during the Animus gather. Then, who is she? Is she Headmistress's real grand-daughter?

Grandpa's death is unexpected. I thought he's the big boss. But I think it make sense, because if he is still alive, he will continue with the experiment rather than fight against the Animus.

Now, Lise is crazy. I guess Kate and them have to fight them at the end. ~sigh
In the other hand, I am glad that the Delors didn't get a chance to inject those stuff in the Kate, or else will be like Lise eventually.

[MrProphet]

LOL. Episode 21 pokes fun at Eureka Seven. 8))))

Spoiler:

Yes, that's young Kate, trying on makeup. If you haven't seen E7, you probably won't get why this is funny. 8)

Paula and Kate are getting gayer for each other. Paula even teaches Kate about lipstick. 8)

We also learn J.C.'s full name. 8)

And here's a major spoiler for episode 22. Enter at your own risk. 8)

Spoiler:

[Guido]

To Mr. Impz, I thank you once again for your synopsis to episode nineteen.

You see I cannot watch a Red Garden episode until either you blog a full review for it once it is available to understand the RAW or a fansub is released for that episode.

Spoiler:

And the blood festival continues.

It was to be expected that inspector Neil (the young partner to the old inspector) rang his death bell, as soon as he was approaching Lise. The difference I felt in contrast to his late partner's death lied that there were no signs to warn of his death.
On one frame he looks cautious and astonished, and on the next... BANG! shot on the forehead and plummets like a dead fly. His shooting came as if a cold breeze swept all over my stomach.

And let's not forget that animal look on Lise with the left side of her jawbone covered in blood; spooky.

The title of the episode says it all. Feelings that the girls desperately want to deliver or swat away to their loved ones, because as I am seeing how the story takes such fatalistic turns then there's not an open possibility for a bliss coming to them all at the conclusion.

Spoiler:

I feel really bad for Luke and Rachel. It was evident that Luke admitted he got carried away and wanted to fix things back how they were with Rachel.

Rachel wanted the same, but she was conscious about her reality check and had to turn him down. While this as far the most painful and critical decision Rachel made, they'll be no more regrets springing later and thus keeping the pain from lingering within her.

I know the choice devastated her, because the contrary would have meant to live the remainder of her memories with the fear and concern that whatever budding attachment and love for Ryuk would inevitably be swiped off from the confines of her mind, and such a thought would have tormented for the rest.

I also feel very warmth and empathetic for Paula, because she was helpless on not telling the truth about Kate that she knew everything that went through from the start of this insane voyage.
Her holding Kates' hands, caressing her face, and for finally to cry on Kate's shoulder was an inspiring and emotive scene that warmed up as the song neared its climaxed.

Spoiler for Lise:

What I understood is that the grandfather and Dr. Bender scrapped her as a failed experiment and instead moved on with plan 'B', that is to afford the timing and luck to kidnap any other of the four girls to use her body for their reproduction program. Remember that in episode 11 Lula warned Kate and the others that they were targeted for their bodies by Hervé's clan for their reproduction program.

Unfortunately for Kate, she happened to be conveniently outdoors at the open and exposed at the bad timing while the group of men approached her from behind as she was dialing Hervé.

Exactly, why the clan deemed Lise a failure and chose to try their luck with Kate?

And will Hervé go to save Kate in spite that she is his enemy?

Both sides will be gathering their forces to prepare for the last showdown, which will determine who gets to keep both books.

[Matrim]

Holy cow, I can hardly remember other anime series that constantly took me by surprise in a very positive way with its plot twists and also made me love its characters. I never expected Kate to become the second guinea pig for the Delors and Lise to catch the beast curse. Also, the death of the second detective took me completely by surprise. Great episode! Apart from Kate having a "I forgot I was not supposed to be a total moron" experience in the end, that is, but I guess this was necessary for faster plot progression, so I am willing to overlook it.

BTW, am I imagining it or the woman in the photograph that Herve and Emilio talked about really looks like Rachel's mother? She looked quite desperate in episode five, maybe it's because her husband has disappeared some time ago?

My hopes were fullfilled, Paula looks indeed to be head over heels in love with Kate who accepted her emotional outburst pretty well.

[moneenerd]

RED GARDEN EPISODE 19
Wow wow wow wow wow wow!

[Nergol]

That's up in the air, but chances are, she's just working for the organization in protecting Kate.

Told ya so.

That said, after the events of the last couple episodes, I'm not sure why the girls are still buying the Animus side of this story lock, stock, and barrel. If it were me, especially after Herve's revelations to Kate, I'd be seriously asking who the good guys and bad guys really were, and wether I was sure I was on the right side and not just being lied to and used.