Macross Frontier - Vajra discussion

[pinoy78]

Interesting explanation of the word Vajra.

"The late medieval terms basara and kabukimono are originally based on the Sanskrit term vajra (kongo, kongoseki). Kongoseki, which means "diamond," signifies that which can pulverize anything, and has long been used to describe the destruction of preconceived ideas, a tendency also closely related to kabukimono. Kabukimono signifies an individual who takes pleasure in shocking other people with his unusual behavior and appearance, and is similar in meaning to basara."

Vajra = All powerful/ destruction of preconceived ideas, Basara = one who takes pleasure in shocking people with his unusual behavior/ appearance, and BASARA is connected to VAJRA.
Citation: http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~tenmyoya/text/text.html

[ipernorris]

Here I put some of the most significant statements about Vajra on Wikipedia:

Vajra (Devanagari: वज्र) is a Sanskrit word meaning both thunderbolt and diamond and is the most important of all Buddhist symbols. It is a short metal weapon that has the nature of a diamond (it can cut any substance but not be cut itself) and the nature of the thunderbolt (irresistible force). The vajra has come to represent firmness of spirit and sprirtual power.

The vajra destroys all kinds of ignorance, and itself is indestructible. In tantric rituals the Vajra symbolizes the male principle which represents method in the right hand and the Bell symbolizes the female principle, which is held in the left. Their interaction leads to enlightenment. Also the Dorje or Vajra represents the "Upaya" or method Tibetans name Vajra as "Dorje". When made to be worn as a pendant, it reminds the wearer, and the viewer, of the supreme indestructibility of knowledge.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well Vajra is what UN spacy has called it not that it calls itself like that or it's creators.

Red Custom VF-19 Excalibur - Basara
Red Biomechanical weapon - Vajra

[Tabris]

So I read this post in the Episode 6 discussion, then I remembered something I was going to post when episode 5 RAWS were first released, but forgot what to say when it came to posting here.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

She said she'd return to Galaxy after the concert, in order to show she believed that they would win and beat the Bugs. The question is 'when' since she merely said after the concert... and if the Galaxy's dead (read: Zerged by the bugs into a hiveship, assimilated into a cube, turned into a space hulk, or otherwise rendered unfit for human occupancy), she may not to get to go back after all.

I remembered that the Vajra have the same armour type as Valkyries. So, it just got me thinking *kinda spoilers relating to my last post*, not necessary to read, but do so if you want but with me getting the Vajra carrier confused with Galaxy because of the clamshell-shape I was thinking maybe the Vajra have a way of integrating technology or attributes from their enemies into themselves?

Like, maybe they started off as a rather basic life form, and kept evolving as they predated on other species/whatever else is around and the race keeps on upgrading itself through taking in new materials and technologies?

Just another guess, probably way off the mark, but I thought I'd throw the idea out

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by Tabris

So I read this post in the Episode 6 discussion, then I remembered something I was going to post when episode 5 RAWS were first released, but forgot what to say when it came to posting here.



I remembered that the Vajra have the same armour type as Valkyries. So, it just got me thinking *kinda spoilers relating to my last post*, not necessary to read, but do so if you want but with me getting the Vajra carrier confused with Galaxy because of the clamshell-shape I was thinking maybe the Vajra have a way of integrating technology or attributes from their enemies into themselves?

Like, maybe they started off as a rather basic life form, and kept evolving as they predated on other species/whatever else is around and the race keeps on upgrading itself through taking in new materials and technologies?

Just another guess, probably way off the mark, but I thought I'd throw the idea out

The fact that the enemy has the same type of "armour" the same type of "Folding" and responds to "Animu Spiritia" is ticking some boxes that seems to say "Protoculture!" to me.



Too many things here are too similar here, we forget the Old Ones were a meddlesome lot.

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

The fact that the enemy has the same type of "armour" the same type of "Folding" and responds to "Animu Spiritia" is ticking some boxes that seems to say "Protoculture!" to me.



Too many things here are too similar here, we forget the Old Ones were a meddlesome lot.

Are you saying that the Vajra ARE the Protoculture? It could be and it would be priceless: the most mighty civilization known in the Macross Universe were BUGS?!?

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

Are you saying that the Vajra ARE the Protoculture? It could be and it would be priceless: the most mighty civilization known in the Macross Universe were BUGS?!?

Maybe as they exist today.

[squaresphere]

I dunno if they're protoculture themselves but all evidence points to the fact they are connected to the protoculture some how. I'm still thinking they're the replacements the protoculture created after they lost control of the Zentradi.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

Are you saying that the Vajra ARE the Protoculture? It could be and it would be priceless: the most mighty civilization known in the Macross Universe were BUGS?!?

I'm saying nothing and everything.

I'm only stating that they were a meddlesome race that liked to play "God"

besides who are you calling "BUGS"?


For all we know humanoids form might actually be the official "BUGS" of the galaxy


after all we never seem to die and fornicate everywhere leaving a mess behind us.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

after all we never seem to die and fornicate everywhere leaving a mess behind us.

It's bunnies. Like that bridge bunny whose ass the captain likes to slap. Seksuahara ka.

But you do have a point if the Vajra is some sort off failsafe system the Protoculture left behind.

They were against the evolution of a aggressive interstellar species. A little too late don't you think.

These are also the guys that left a repository of knowledge which rises up because of a rock star and defense systems that shut down when it is found out there is a Zent-human baby.

[squaresphere]

I'm pretty sure the protoculture was humanoid from the M7 ruins they found on Lux.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

I'm pretty sure the protoculture was humanoid from the M7 ruins they found on Lux.

Yeah well the guy wasn't that distinctive. Unless of course the Protoculture pulled a SG1 Ancients where the going got tough turn to energy beings.

[Blue Reverie]

While the Vajra may be linked to the Protoculture, they are probably something obscure, and probably not "replacement soldiers" for the Zentraedi. Otherwise I think the Zentraedi would've encountered them before, and thus NUNs would know more about them (Since they've got the expertise of several extremely knowledgeable Zentraedi (Breetai, Exedore) to draw on.

[CaptGloval]

Well, it's not really proven yet that the Zentraedi have no knowledge of the Vajra. In fact, my opinion leans into the opposite direction because of the Bilra character. Of course, let's wait and see.

[Blue Reverie]

True, I forgot about him, also the Zentraedi debris in that asteroid field in ep 4 might be a good indicator too.

But if the Zentraedi have encounter them in the past, I doubt it was extensive contact, or NUNs would probably know more about them. Then again, the Zentraedi aren't exactly great scientists so intelligence from them would be largely stuff like "They can shoot big beams and have soft underbellies".

[Tak]

Originally Posted by CaptGloval

Well, it's not really proven yet that the Zentraedi have no knowledge of the Vajra.

Where is the great Zentradi Archivist/Mentat when we need him!?

- Tak (They need a blog titled "Ask Exsedol")

[Sander RX]

I dig the Big Red Vajra.Awesome,ferocius,tough,powerful,mysterious.I love them!
Little Brown...meh,atleast it is better then VF-171 cannon fodder.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Tak

Where is the great Zentradi Archivist/Mentat when we need him!?

- Tak (They need a blog titled "Ask Exsedol")

Somewhere in the core region of the galaxy...

Macross 7 has already made landfall and started a colonization of the planet which has tropical islands.

One of these islands is owned by former Advisor to the Zentradi and UN Spacy Exsedol Folmo.

Who spends much of his royalties recieved from the Folmo Malls , a hit franchise throughout the colonies and fleets using his name for recognition, on miclone girls (some of which are bridge bunnies) and Meltrans wearing bikinis.

"Ahh Deculture~" - Exsedol Folmo

"Exsedol-kun there's a call from New UN Spacy, you want to take it?" - bridge bunny in a bunny suit.

*Takes off shades*

"Bunny-chan, Tell them I'm retired, why do they suppose I joined Macross 7? This is a retirement fleet. A lot of us here are old men from Space War 1! The younger girl - older men population ratio is what attracted me to this colony. And they want to drag me back out there?!"

[squaresphere]

^ haha so true

[Tabris]

Anyone who's seen the Episode 7 RAWs think that the capital ship was a bit underwhelming?

I mean, it destroyed one escort ship, fair enough. But it's nothing we haven't seen the Red Vajra do already.