Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Qilin

I'm not going to demonize the episode, but this is certainly one of the season's lesser episodes.
Oh well, all will be forgiven if they can do the last two episodes well, especially the last one.

That's pretty much the only way this episode can be excused if they do justice to the remaining material from VN 4 in the last two episodes. Even than some decisions were moronic like excluding the red text from the meta talk between Beatrice and Battler.

It's probably a good episode if you haven't read the VN though...

[Nochgo]

Ok, I'm not going to even bother asking for explanations. I'm not going to even bother try to understand. I hope playing the VN can helps me out.

[Fishcaek-Chan]

Ooh! There are alot of painfuls thrown out there! I must admit I wasn't pleased myself, but it wasn't that bad!

I reeaaaaaaaaaalllly hope they know where they're going with this...

[matteas]

Very disappointing episode.

No goat-kuns
No ShaKa fighting, which means no upset Siestas
No emotions
No George finding
Lack of BGM, as usual
Why was Kyrie in the kitchen?
The Kyrie call too rushed. We didn't even get to know what killed her (well, we know, though ^^, but we wouldn't without VN)
No clear distinction between meta and real. It was hard to tell if they're showing meta or real.
I believe Ronove should sound more uneasy in the last moments of the battle.
Ange appearing where she shouldn't
The "remember your sin" scene could have been much better. Yet again, no emotions.
All in all, very chaotic.

Good points: Some nice head shots, running scene and following Kyrie call scene had Akaikutsu Nise, quite nice ending

I hope we are in for 2 better episodes now, having rushed this one.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by June 1983

Asumu died, Rudolf married Kyrie, Battler left the family, and Ange was born.

Six years ago.

There's lots of things going on in that year, and any one of them could be related to the sin, or maybe all of them. It could also be that the sin occurred during the last family conference Battler attended six years ago.

The number six in general seems very imporant to this story. There's also the 'Ro' in 'Rokkenjima', and the 6 sacrifices for the first twilight. Shannon also started working for the family when she was 6 years old. The number 6 seems to have a significance, though I can't yet imagine what that could be.

[Chishio no Hana]

don't forget that it takes place in 1986. Kanon and Shannon are sixteen. Ange is six (in 1986, anyway) so it's possible that six IS very important

[ChibiBear]

666 is the devil's number too And Kanon is staked by Satan alot... Hmm...

[Fishcaek-Chan]

Hmmm, it seems you're all on to something here, 6...Well to bad there are 7 stakes of purgatory or we'd be set!xD

[Westlo]

I have to admit that finding the complaint about no music a tad funny, going back to when Dragonball Z was dubbed by Funi and how a lot of DBZ fans were generally saying "Why the f do Funi have to insert music into every single scene, don't they know that silence is the best option at times!". The original Japanese score had a lot of scenes with no music playing that was used to good effect whereas the Funi dub had music 100% of the time.

Now obviously music was a big factor in the VN or should i say Sound Novel but you don't need music in every single scene in the anime, you have actual speech. Not using music in a scene is a valid way to set the atmosphere as well and if you think about it you should remember some occasions in anime or other visual mediums where it has been done well.

This is an anime not a sound novel, it's like when Klash posted a clip of how System 0 shjould've been and System 0 overpowers the actual dialogue of the characters, hey it's all right if you have subtitles but you know the people this is aimed at doesn't have subtitles so if they mishear something they miss it.

[Chishio no Hana]

Originally Posted by Fishcaek-Chan

Hmmm, it seems you're all on to something here, 6...Well to bad there are 7 stakes of purgatory or we'd be set!xD

well, there is 18 people on Rokkenjima, and that's 3x6. It is unfortunate that there are seven stakes.... but there are six people on Rokkenjima that aren't part of the Ushiromiya family....

[ChibiBear]

Wow... Hey, who's 6th in line to be the heir??

[Kitsu]

It's Jessica.

[Fishcaek-Chan]

And they're presented at this point!

[ChibiBear]

Hmm... And who's No. 6 of the servants??

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Westlo

I have to admit that finding the complaint about no music a tad funny, going back to when Dragonball Z was dubbed by Funi and how a lot of DBZ fans were generally saying "Why the f do Funi have to insert music into every single scene, don't they know that silence is the best option at times!". The original Japanese score had a lot of scenes with no music playing that was used to good effect whereas the Funi dub had music 100% of the time.

It's all about what's appropriate for the situation. When FUNi first dubbed DBZ, they constantly put music and dialogue into scenes that were originally either silent, or had more downplayed and quiet music that they replaced with their AKSHUN MUSIK. In other words, they ruined the impact of those scenes. DEEN is doing the same thing here by removing music where it belongs, because as you said, this is based on a sound novel. Many of those musical pieces are essential to the impact of a scene (while others may not be as appropriate in an Anime medium - for instance, deadangle, which I love, just doesn't fit very well into most of the scenes it's originally used in, due to the different style of VN vs. Anime). So when DEEN replaces music with more inappropriate tracks (*cough* Suspicion *cough*) it often ruins the impact in the same way FUNi did by adding music to DBZ. It's a very different type of series, but both are about the impact.

Sometimes DEEN doesn't make terrible choices - episode 15, for instance, using nighteyes in the scene where Eva-B was torturing Rosa and Maria instead of Happiness of Marionette worked out very well IMO. It suited the scene even if it wasn't the song originally used in the VN. That's why I don't usually complain about music unless they're replacing the God Tracks or it just really changes the mood of a scene. So yeah, comparing Umineko to Dragonball might be a little unfair. In the end the reason fans complained is the same - impact.

Originally Posted by Chishio no Hana

but there are six people on Rokkenjima that aren't part of the Ushiromiya family....

I hadn't thought of that one before, good thinking. Though I think if we try to go into '1986' or '16' or anything else that happens to have a six in it, that's a bit much. Ange being 6 years old definitely ties into the whole 'six years ago' business, though.

According to the Wikipedia article, the 6th of the 72 demons is Valefar...perhaps we'll be seeing him at a future point of the series? I know a lot of people are hoping for Bael, as well, so maybe it'll turn out that all of the first 6 are significant? Though that does make Ronove and Gaap seem kinda randomly chosen number-wise (though Gaap's ability is important...I dunno about Ronove). I feel like I might be reaching, though.

[Kitsu]

That was never made clear. It was only said that
1.Genji
2.Shannon
3.Kanon

According to the Wikipedia article, the 6th of the 72 demons is Valefar...perhaps we'll be seeing him at a future point of the series? I know a lot of people are hoping for Bael, as well, so maybe it'll turn out that all of the first 6 are significant? Though that does make Ronove and Gaap seem kinda randomly chosen number-wise (though Gaap's ability is important...I dunno about Ronove). I feel like I might be reaching, though.

Haha, you know a lot of people are stil waiting for another demon to represent Kanon and then we are set and all the servants would have someone.

[ChibiBear]

Hmm... This could be interesting

[KanonTheFurniture]

Well the article on Valefar says he tempts people to steal. Maybe, like Gaap's role is transporting the bodies, Valefar's role is stealing the master keys?

[ChibiBear]

Maybe Gaap teleported the key out of the envelope? Lol

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

DEEN is doing the same thing here by removing music where it belongs, because as you said, this is based on a sound novel. Many of those musical pieces are essential to the impact of a scene.

The main reason those music pieces are so important to the sound novel scenes is due to no actual voices, the music is used to set the atmosphere and try and get across emotion, with voices it doesn't need to do all the hard work. It doesn't matter if this is based on a sound novel because this product is an anime and it doesn't have the same limitations as a sound novel. I assure you if the sound novels were voiced the music would not be used in the exact same manner and for the most part would play a background role to the actual voices itself. Think like the drama cds...

And don't get me starting on DEEN's overuse of Suspicion, can't believe they did that lol.. when's the last time that was used btw?