Sword Art Online II - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

"I'm gonna blast you from here to the moon!" - Best line ever. I really liked Untouchable, it's a good way to train your reflexes and make it big....like, REALLY big! What if Kirito was a casual player and won all that money, then converted it to rl cash and bailed out?

Was that really such a huge amount of money? Kirito spent half of it for a sword and it's doubtful that that's the single most costly weapon in the game seeing as how it is in very low demand. The other half was spent for a gun, ammunition, armor and shield.

That should mean that any decent end game player is carrying the same amount of money in equipment on themselves if not more.

[Kakurin]

I laughed hard at Kirito getting his hands on Mace Windu's lightsabre. Swinging it even produces the humming sound of the Star Wars sabres. Seeing how Kirito was one of the SAO beta testers and SAO was the first game, he should have quoted Obi-Wan from episode 4:

Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon, for a more civilised age.

Although the civilised is debatable here.

[HandofFate]

The conversion rate in GGO is 100credits = 1yen.
So yea, Kirito spent about $25-30 on the sword and pistol, which isn't that much. I seen many asian ftp microtransaction games where a weapon goes for more than that.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

This. They showed the gunslinger's eye movements and iirc the novel explanation was Kirito wasn't using the predictive lines to dodge but rather using where the AI was looking at to dodge instead.

Props to Kirito's VA for putting on a feminine touch to his usual voice and A1 for fleshing out the world of GGO convincingly thus far. I expect even better results when the tournament starts.

Honestly I think the bullet dodging and the bike issue was the only things that pushed it for me. No offense to Kirito, but dodging based on eye movement isn't something new. People do a lot of things based on eye movement. These people are actively shooting where they are looking, did no one consider that the other side is doing the same thing? In all sorts of sports people shoot, hit, throw, kick, etc, where they are looking. Someone in that world must have played a sport at some point before going into GGO.

But they needed some way to get Kirito a lot of money so he could get geared up and going. I'd say money transferring to some level from the previous account could work, but if this is a game where people are actually making money that's probably not going to work out.

And in the end we're getting some light saber action so there are some positives .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

The conversion rate in GGO is 100credits = 1yen.
So yea, Kirito spent about $25-30 on the sword and pistol, which isn't that much. I seen many asian ftp microtransaction games where a weapon goes for more than that.

Not to mention, it's like 5% of the worth of his avatar's face.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Honestly I think the bullet dodging and the bike issue was the only things that pushed it for me. No offense to Kirito, but dodging based on eye movement isn't something new. People do a lot of things based on eye movement. These people are actively shooting where they are looking, did no one consider that the other side is doing the same thing? In all sorts of sports people shoot, hit, throw, kick, etc, where they are looking. Someone in that world must have played a sport at some point before going into GGO.

Maybe they never noticed because they had that trajectory indicator to distract them. Plus you wouldn't think an NPC would depend on his eyes like that.

[hamazura]

$30 for only that light saber and gun?
wow GGO is so much pay to win

[eiyuuou]

I don't think Kirito will take offense as (in the OP) he's cutting bullets as well, so he's going god tier in weapon break.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

No offense to Kirito, but dodging based on eye movement isn't something new. People do a lot of things based on eye movement.

If dodging bullets based on eye movement was something everyone can do IRL, everyone would be dodging bullets and it'd become a mundane and normal ability. Obviously IRL people don't in fact have just suddenly have the ability to dodge bullets by eye-reading (or else dying in gun duels wouldn't be a thing), so it's not as though what Kirito did isn't worthy of note.

In a gunfight, the first instinct most people have is to look at where the weapon is pointing since it's the move visible indicator of where a weapon is aimed at. It takes very perceptive and level-minded people who can keep their calm when the bullets start flying to even think of trying to look at someone in the eyes to see where they're shooting at. Even then, you don't see militaries and police being taught to dodge bullets via eye movement (and the latter are the same people who offer courses on reading body expression to determine whether someone is lying), they're taught that when a firefight starts, you take cover.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by hamazura

$30 for only that light saber and gun?
wow GGO is so much pay to win

On the other side if the value of in game currency was too low nobody would consider it a remunerative job at all (not Japanese at least).

Basically for it to be worthwhile according to Japanese standards the "Pro Gamers" of GGO should gain at least 15$ per hour, and if they can do that then Kirito only gained what people would normally gain in two hours of farming.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

If dodging bullets based on eye movement was something everyone can do IRL, everyone would be dodging bullets and it'd become a mundane and normal ability. Obviously IRL people don't in fact have just suddenly have the ability to dodge bullets by eye-reading (or else dying in gun duels wouldn't be a thing), so it's not as though what Kirito did isn't worthy of note.

In a gunfight, the first instinct most people have is to look at where the weapon is pointing since it's the move visible indicator of where a weapon is aimed at. It takes very perceptive and level-minded people who can keep their calm when the bullets start flying to even think of trying to look at someone in the eyes to see where they're shooting at. Even then, you don't see militaries and police being taught to dodge bullets via eye movement (and the latter are the same people who offer courses on reading body expression to determine whether someone is lying), they're taught that when a firefight starts, you take cover.

Well I think it goes without saying that trying to look at people's eyes during gunfights is ridiculous.

[GDB]

On the other hand, Shinon's friend said he was able to farm just enough to pay for the monthly fee. Assuming a traditional system that current MMOs use, that'd be about $15 a month. Meaning Kirito just made twice what that kid makes in 2 months in about 14 seconds.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

If dodging bullets based on eye movement was something everyone can do IRL, everyone would be dodging bullets and it'd become a mundane and normal ability. Obviously IRL people don't in fact have just suddenly have the ability to dodge bullets by eye-reading (or else dying in gun duels wouldn't be a thing), so it's not as though what Kirito did isn't worthy of note.

In a gunfight, the first instinct most people have is to look at where the weapon is pointing since it's the move visible indicator of where a weapon is aimed at. It takes very perceptive and level-minded people who can keep their calm when the bullets start flying to even think of trying to look at someone in the eyes to see where they're shooting at. Even then, you don't see militaries and police being taught to dodge bullets via eye movement (and the latter are the same people who offer courses on reading body expression to determine whether someone is lying), they're taught that when a firefight starts, you take cover.

We're obviously not IRL though. People aren't going to have the same physical dodging ability in the first place. IRL Kirito ends up in a morgue with a half a dozen bullets in him. He doesn't calm dodge bullets in reality because he physically can't pull it off. Unless we are claiming that Kirito's agility stats are so far above everyone else.

And yes it still isn't worthy of note. It's a dodging game within a game. That in itself should have people considering their possibilities going into it. The game doesn't start either until the person decides to begin it leaving them the most level-headed they are going to be in comparison to any actual gun fight.

It is a stretch that people shouldn't have been able to figure out the eye reading angle before this point.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Not to mention, it's like 5% of the worth of his avatar's face.

Maybe they never noticed because they had that trajectory indicator to distract them. Plus you wouldn't think an NPC would depend on his eyes like that.

I think if anything makes sense it's this angle. The majority by this point is more used to depending on the lines and distracted by them. New players with the right background should have a better chance at this game since they aren't already thrown off by it and may be more focused on normally dodging.

Of course even then it leans more to the converted new player since base stats are probably not high enough to actually pull off the dodging needed.

[HandofFate]

Also, the sword and gun Kirito bought were all vendor items.

I wouldn't be surprised if gear drops like the rare sniper rifle Shinon got at the beginning of the series can be sold for $500-$1000+ real money on the player market.

[Kafriel]

Kind of makes you wonder why there would be monsters in a game that is purely pvp in nature... *I'm looking at you, firefall!*

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

We're obviously not IRL though. People aren't going to have the same physical dodging ability in the first place. IRL Kirito ends up in a morgue with a half a dozen bullets in him. He doesn't calm dodge bullets in reality because he physically can't pull it off. Unless we are claiming that Kirito's agility stats are so far above everyone else.

And yes it still isn't worthy of note. It's a dodging game within a game. That in itself should have people considering their possibilities going into it. The game doesn't start either until the person decides to begin it leaving them the most level-headed they are going to be in comparison to any actual gun fight.

It is a stretch that people shouldn't have been able to figure out the eye reading angle before this point.
I think if anything makes sense it's this angle. The majority by this point is more used to depending on the lines and distracted by them. New players with the right background should have a better chance at this game since they aren't already thrown off by it and may be more focused on normally dodging.

Of course even then it leans more to the converted new player since base stats are probably not high enough to actually pull off the dodging needed.

The thing about GGO is that while yes there are physical enhancements that give the mobility to dodge bullets better, ultimately it's still your senses that enable dodging bullets in the first place - you can't dodge what you can't sense afterall, no matter how strong or nimble you are. And IRL or GGO shouldn't matter, since Kirito takes his games seriously.

Also, the thing is that it's a dodging game within a game, but people think that the game is different. Most people simply assumed that the bullet lines are all there is to dodging, and as shown in the fight against Behemoth and that player dodging the initial bullets in the minigame, it serves well for most fights. Kirito shows that there's more to the game than what initially appears.

And the likely reason that people haven't seen the eye-reading angle is because they weren't looking for the reasons I described above: no sane person in the heat of battle will try to look into another person's eyes to tell them where they're aiming. In the LN, Kirito only made the connection to an NPC's eyes indicating their aim because it was the normal but subtle AI behavior from SAO and ALO's mobs that carried over into GGO, so he's actually had practice in eye-reading and dodging. That Kirito can still attempt to check an enemy's eye movements for aim despite being in the heat of battle is still a notable feat in and of itself.

Also, "normally" dodging? People normally dodge by watching they anticipate the projectiles to go and then hope they react fast enough to evade it. Reading someone's eyes to dodge is not in any way "normal".

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Kind of makes you wonder why there would be monsters in a game that is purely pvp in nature... *I'm looking at you, firefall!*

As was shown in Episode 2, there are people who farm PvE ques, hence the preference for Blasters/Energy weapons.

[Hiroi Sekai]

"I'm gonna blast you from here to the moon!"

It was another fun episode, glad to see this season is entertaining so far. Let's hope Creepy McCreeperton doesn't end up being another rapist, that was legitimately uncomfortable to watch.

Seriously loving Sinon's character though. Awesome colour scheme, an understandable backstory to latch onto, and one badass and classy seiyuu lady to back it all up. Sawashiro Miyuki has one of the sexiest voices ever, it's a great joy to see her voicing good characters everywhere.

[hamazura]

sinon
>gun trauma and panic attack
>gun otaku, know detailed everything about any gun any weapon

bs

[Queen of Corners]

Originally Posted by hamazura

sinon
>gun trauma and panic attack
>gun otaku, know detailed everything about any gun any weapon

bs

I still think Amusphere somehow intervenes. After all, your VR body can't really go out of control like that. I mean, she might've been completely terrified when she'd first started the game, but vomiting and vobbly knees won't happen because Amusphere would intercept the signals the brain is sending to the body. Last thing you'd want is that by moving your virtual arm, you're moving your real arm, too. It just doesn't work that way.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Krono

And your accuracy would drop like a rock. The "targeting assist" circle is pretty much just the game saying "based on all factors affecting bullet trajectory, your shot will hit somewhere in this area when you pull the trigger."

You still have a crosshairs, you can see it when the view is through Sinon's scope in episode 2. You can also see the crosshairs are centered up and to the left of where the green targeting circle is. That's because the circle is compensating for gravity and wind, while the crosshairs aren't.

The whole "hits randomly within this area" is pretty much just another way of saying "this is the margin of variance expected to be caused by you actually pulling the trigger, based on your current stats."

You forget that GGO is a VRMMO, and Kirito has already shown proof that you don't need the games systems to do things, but are also good by just using your real life skills.

So yeah while I admit that I probably failed epicly when I accidentally bursted with that STG 77 back in my conscription time, it wasn't really that hard to aim with it as long as you used single shots.
- the anime displayed this nicely btw since the guy with the 77 didn't use the burst (or if he did no more than 2 shots at once)

As for the pistol - sadly that part of the base training was already cut when I went there, though I think Kirito would have had an easier time if he had just supported his wrist with his left arm to stabilize it instead of listening to Shinnon.

So yeah I will stick to my initial statement, I'd turn it off and exchange it for a normal crosshair at any time.
TbH I don't need to actually be able to play GGo to know that the circle would be more distracting than useful. Just imagine someone trying to focus that thing in the midst of a battle.
Which is another thing Kirito showed proof for- the more you try to focus on it the more likely you will screw up. Pistols aren't really long range weapons in the first place btw.

The bright side would be not having to use a controler to aim like in GTA IV (Which also has a circle as a crosshair btw)

[Haruyasha]

Originally Posted by Hiroi Sekai

"I'm gonna blast you from here to the moon!"

That whole scene had some cringy English. I never understood why Japanese directors stubbornly refuse to let native English speakers fix the scripts.

Also, them spelling errors.