Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai NEXT - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

It is a game (not homework or RL work), having to fast forward thru what you have already played kills the joy out of it.

It's just dialogue, maybe a few multiple choices.

Any gamer would already steel themselves for repeat playthroughs.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

The big diference is that I can be friends with someone who blurts out his thinking/feelings, but I cannot be friend of someone whose only intention is to hurt you.

Who knows? Maybe it's because [said person] might be an obnoxious show-off that preys on little girls hence that [said other person] doesn't like [said person]?

Cause clearly if [said person] were anything else [both persons] might get along just fine.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Who knows, maybe it's because you're an obnoxious show-off that preys on little girls hence that someone doesn't like you?

Cause clearly if you were anything else both of you might get along just fine.

This almost came off to me as an attempt of ad hominem. until I realized you were referring to Sena's treatments towards Kobato

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

It is a game (not homework or RL work), having to fast forward thru what you have already played kills the joy out of it.

Originally Posted by garbage

Personally as a Gamer I do understand the gravity of what she did, there are games that you work on for hours, and that's hours of your life wasted by that malicious action. Let's put that in perspective what if it is someone who likes poetry, writing poems on her computer, or maybe Mashiro drawing manga, and you suddenly switch the computer off. whatever you were doing would still be the same time off on your life and effort wasted. Certainly Keima would disagree, same as with professional gamers and game Otakus

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It's an eroge, not a 2 hour long Civilization match.

At worst you can fast forward the dialogue.

All of the above quote is true depending on the circumstances (as in, the game or activity in question). But I guess depending on your personal standard, you can either view them on a case to case basis or as a generalized form and apply the same judgement to all cases.

However, Sena WAS playing an eroge, which most of the time comes with a skip function (unlike some other console games, I can remember some of them not having the skip function so I went and make coffee). Though, forced shut-down might caused it to not save the last progress so I would still exercise caution in skipping the dialogues so as to not over skip.
Personally, it is still a dick move but not so much 'bully', though I accept that different people can have different opinions.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

This almost came off to me as an attempt of ad hominem. until I realized you were referring to Sena's treatments towards Kobato

Hmmm, was it not obvious enough ? I might need to make some changes just in case...

[roon]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

She literally does not remember people from her class, especially the one who got second place to her.

It's like their existence doesn't concern her, and that is as face rubbing as it gets without actually saying it in their face.

Serious question: Do you make it a point to remember everyone's name in a class? I very rarely remembered everyone's names in HS and this only worsened in college (where the workload meant I was even busier). I know that apparently you're supposed to know everything about everyone's business in Japanese high schools, but as for me, I believed that getting my education was my primary goal. Sure, I had friends in school, not too many, but I don't keep in contact with any of them anymore, anyway. I honestly believe that I really could have just gone through HS without any and arguably ended up the same. Most of my real friends who I met during HS are older than me and I still keep in contact with most of them.

Now, am I saying that Sena doesn't have terrible qualities? No, of course she does -- that's why she finds it difficult to make friends. I'd just like to point out that not acknowledging people who most likely spread/believe rumours about her isn't exactly a damning trait. Aoi is probably the only person we've been directly introduced to who doesn't think of her along the same lines as what the other girls (and boys?) in her class seem to.

As an aside, as long as I went to class and managed to stay awake, getting 90+% test scores was easy. College was slightly more difficult, but I still feel like I put in minimal effort in some classes and walked away with 100%. I enjoy academia, though, so...

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

The big diference is that I can be friends with someone who blurts out his thinking/feelings, but I cannot be friend of someone whose only intention is to hurt you.

Indeed, I'd much rather have a friend who is open and honest, even if ridiculously blunt. At least that way you don't have to doubt their intentions, since they'd be an open book.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by roon

Serious question: Do you make it a point to remember everyone's name in a class? I very rarely remembered everyone's names in HS and this only worsened in college (where the workload meant I was even busier). I know that apparently you're supposed to know everything about everyone's business in Japanese high schools, but as for me, I believed that getting my education was my primary goal. Sure, I had friends in school, not too many, but I don't keep in contact with any of them anymore, anyway. I honestly believe that I really could have just gone through HS without any and arguably ended up the same. Most of my real friends who I met during HS are older than me and I still keep in contact with most of them.

It reflects poorly on you when you don't even know the people you're stuck together with. I'm not sure what it's like for western schools, but where I'm from whether you like them or not, you have to know the people in your own class.

Originally Posted by roon

Now, am I saying that Sena doesn't have terrible qualities? No, of course she does -- that's why she finds it difficult to make friends. I'd just like to point out that not acknowledging people who most likely spread/believe rumours about her isn't exactly a damning trait. Aoi is probably the only person we've been directly introduced to who doesn't think of her along the same lines as what the other girls (and boys?) in her class seem to.

And here we have a chicken and egg scenario; which comes first? People not liking Sena? Or Sena not caring about people?

Originally Posted by roon

Indeed, I'd much rather have a friend who is open and honest, even if ridiculously blunt. At least that way you don't have to doubt their intentions, since they'd be an open book.

You can control them easier as well when you have everything on them- Good plan

[potchip]

What a strange question to ask...let along classmates that you sort of see for long periods of time, in any work or social environment, remember someone's name, even if just introduced is crucial and fastest way to gain rapport if addressed by their name the next time you meet....

I'd think that, whether it comes naturally or not, is a necessary social skill.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by potchip

What a strange question to ask...let along classmates that you sort of see for long periods of time, in any work or social environment, remember someone's name, even if just introduced is crucial and fastest way to gain rapport if addressed by their name the next time you meet....

I'd think that, whether it comes naturally or not, is a necessary social skill.

While I did experience that 'you just can't help knowing all people in your own class' up till high school, I get the impression that's about the last place you can get to do that. Come college (which I'm still experiencing) and then work, my impression from the stories I've heard is that you won't/can't/can't be bothered to get the opportunity to know ALL of your colleagues/co-workers.

Even now I already forgot most of my old classmate's names. Or, it might really be just me being absolutely terrible in remembering names combined with my loner nature speaking

[garbage]

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

Eh... she was playing a VN/Eroge. Autosaves aside, she can just toggle auto-read until the point where she was at, or skip to the next choice, etc. So at best she lost 5 minutes of her life. Hence me considering it was a harmless thing.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It's an eroge, not a 2 hour long Civilization match.
At worst you can fast forward the dialogue.

Oh ok! I've never really played eroge so don't know such features. Still as i've said Keima would still disagree, "different strokes for different people". might not be important for you and I, but time&effort wasted is still time & effort wasted no matter the amount,and who sets the limits anyway. It's beside the point actually, it's the lack of consideration of such actions & the intent behind it.

Originally Posted by frivolity

Notwithstanding some form of necessary fictional exaggeration, I have to wonder how the school can have so many students scoring above 90%. The top score in my high school was generally around 85, since it is extremely difficult to achieve perfect scores in most essay-based subjects. I wonder what the top scores usually are in the elite high schools in Japan.

really? i thought it's kinda normal though, my HS top10-top 20 had 90+% rating. Sigh I'd get90s score and still couldn't break in the top 10. some of my classmates just outright scares me .Top scorers in elite Japan high schools would be the same, even nearer Sena's score than Aoi's.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

She literally does not remember people from her class, especially the one who got second place to her.

It's like their existence doesn't concern her, and that is as face rubbing as it gets without actually saying it in their face.

Being tactless is not better than outright malicious, it's just a different form of 'bad'.

for italicized > as Kodaka said, she just tend to forget things that doesn't interest her,it's not maliciousness on her part. Of course this is her main issue. almost autistic, I can relate though...

for Bold > the feeling and intent behind makes a big difference. especially if the receiver knows. unfortunately for Sena few understands her (in-universe). And I feel tactlessness,aloofness is much easily "cured", for Sena all she needs is to be interested in others, to make friends, like how she got interested in the Neighbors Club members. Most likely development for Aoi would be her getting interested in Aoi.

Originally Posted by roon

Indeed, I'd much rather have a friend who is open and honest, even if ridiculously blunt. At least that way you don't have to doubt their intentions, since they'd be an open book.

ah yes this.

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

While I did experience that 'you just can't help knowing all people in your own class' up till high school, I get the impression that's about the last place you can get to do that. Come college (which I'm still experiencing) and then work, my impression from the stories I've heard is that you won't/can't/can't be bothered to get the opportunity to know ALL of your colleagues/co-workers.

Even now I already forgot most of my old classmate's names. Or, it might really be just me being absolutely terrible in remembering names combined with my loner nature speaking

College is very different though, because people take different subjects and go to different lectures and tutorials. The classes also change every semester and there are often people transferring in and out of classes every week or not bothering to turn up at all. That's not the case in Sena's school, where the class is intact for the whole year.

[roon]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It reflects poorly on you when you don't even know the people you're stuck together with. I'm not sure what it's like for western schools, but where I'm from whether you like them or not, you have to know the people in your own class.

Originally Posted by potchip

What a strange question to ask...let along classmates that you sort of see for long periods of time, in any work or social environment, remember someone's name, even if just introduced is crucial and fastest way to gain rapport if addressed by their name the next time you meet....

I'd think that, whether it comes naturally or not, is a necessary social skill.

Oh, I can get to know them -- but their names? Hmmm... I got by really well by asking classmates I did know about names, or even teachers. I'm much more of a visual-type at any rate, so I'll remember faces forever. On that note, I actually got to know my coworkers' names much quicker than any other classmates... it's just a completely different environment for me. High school was much more of a passive thing that I attended because I had to, whereby work was something I actively put my energy into.

I should probably note that my Myers-Briggs personality type is INTJ, so I'm introverted by nature. Despite this I'm highly sociable... I just think quiet alone time is pretty awesome, too. Well, I guess playing video-games doesn't make for quiet time.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

And here we have a chicken and egg scenario; which comes first? People not liking Sena? Or Sena not caring about people?

I'd like to be optimistic about Sena and think people didn't like her off the bat because of her status as the chairman's daughter, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Sena was as socially awkward as ever and blurted something out that was just too off-putting. I'm genuinely curious which it was, so I hope the story does specify down the road sometime.

[garbage]

Originally Posted by potchip

What a strange question to ask...let along classmates that you sort of see for long periods of time, in any work or social environment, remember someone's name, even if just introduced is crucial and fastest way to gain rapport if addressed by their name the next time you meet....

I'd think that, whether it comes naturally or not, is a necessary social skill.

well it might be a necessary social skill, but this is exactly why Sena is having problems making friends right? besides there will always be the outliers, the forgotten ones, the outcasts, like Mio in LB, those who just fade in the background.
I also tend to have this problem with names and faces i fear it might be biological....

An ex used to say this "To be interesting, you have to be interested", but man it's just so hard to get interested in other people. which is Sena's problem. She's kinda a "closet introvert"

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by garbage

Oh ok! I've never really played eroge so don't know such features. Still as i've said Keima would still disagree, "different strokes for different people". might not be important for you and I, but time&effort wasted is still time & effort wasted no matter the amount,and who sets the limits anyway. It's beside the point actually, it's the lack of consideration of such actions & the intent behind it.

When effort consist of pushing one button without skill, I really don't see the major lost =_=

Originally Posted by garbage

for italicized > as Kodaka said, she just tend to forget things that doesn't interest her,it's not maliciousness on her part. Of course this is her main issue. almost autistic, I can relate though...

She didn't forget, she outright ignores which implies a conscious decision.

Originally Posted by garbage

for Bold > the feeling and intent behind makes a big difference. especially if the receiver knows. unfortunately for Sena few understands her (in-universe). And I feel tactlessness,aloofness is much easily "cured", for Sena all she needs is to be interested in others, to make friends, like how she got interested in the Neighbors Club members. Most likely development for Aoi would be her getting interested in Aoi.

It's still an insult, the equivalent of saying that person is nothing to you.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Who knows? Maybe it's because [said person] might be an obnoxious show-off that preys on little girls hence that [said other person] doesn't like [said person]?

Cause clearly if [said person] were anything else [both persons] might get along just fine.

[controlling bitch] cares very little about [honest idiot] yuri antics, the reason she can't stand her is because she is on the way of her [romantic interest? platonic relationship? dumb crusade to return to the past?] and think of her as an (non-human) obstacle, which is many degrees worse than not remembering someones name.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You can control them easier as well when you have everything on them- Good plan

Yeah, we have seen so far how well a [controlling bitch] can manipulate a [honest idiot]

[garbage]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

When effort consist of pushing one button without skill, I really don't see the major lost =_=

Again I would agree with you but, Keima et.al. would not. but enough on that part,

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

She didn't forget, she outright ignores which implies a conscious decision.

It's still an insult, the equivalent of saying that person is nothing to you.

Kodaka did say forget, but in any case a conscious decision to ignore and have nothing to do with a person might be Cold but still far better than malicious intent to harm another. besides there are billions of people in this world,one cannot expect a person to take special note of you just because. Sena's might be extreme, (and we don't even know how she developed that attitude ), but yes you are a classmate, school is for learning there really is no Rule that requires one to know each and every classmate.

As to it being an insult, it only becomes one if acknowledgement was expected, and one feels he/she must be acknowledged, but again there are no Rules or requirements. So why would Aoi (& others like her) feel the need to be acknowledged by Sena, the problem lies on Aoi at this point.(if she feels insulted)
Harsh as it maybe yes Aoi IS nothing to Sena at this point, just another face in the crowd. Sena must of course change this if she plans to have more friends.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

She didn't forget, she outright ignores which implies a conscious decision.

It's still an insult, the equivalent of saying that person is nothing to you.

You make me feel bad for forgetting names often

I don't know, I don't think I consciously choose to forget my classmates' name. And I'd like to think that it's not because of lack of respect or interest either because I do kind of enjoy their company. But even then, I still forget some of their names anyway. Maybe it was just me not putting enough effort, but it sort of felt like I couldn't help it.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

[controlling bitch] cares very little about [honest idiot] yuri antics, the reason she can't stand her is because she is on the way of her [romantic interest? platonic relationship? dumb crusade to return to the past?] and think of her as an [non-human] obstacle, which is many degrees worse than not remembering someones name.

It's funny how you claim Yozora doesn't think of her as human, but brush aside Sena's not even acknowledge her classmates.

Double Standards much?

What? There's no reason for Sena to acknowledge them? Well I guess the same could be said for Yozora.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Yeah, we have seen so far how well a [controlling bitch] can manipulate a [honest idiot]

I'm not the one who says that they rather make friends with open books.

Originally Posted by garbage

Kodaka did say forget, but in any case a conscious decision to ignore and have nothing to do with a person might be Cold but still far better than malicious intent to harm another. besides there are billions of people in this world,one cannot expect a person to take special note of you just because. Sena's might be extreme, (and we don't even know how she developed that attitude ), but yes you are a classmate, school is for learning there really is no Rule that requires one to know each and every classmate.

Except there are not billions of people in that classroom, there are at most maybe 30.

There is a social rule to show some basic courtesy.

Originally Posted by garbage

As to it being an insult, it only becomes one if acknowledgement was expected, and one feels he/she must be acknowledged, but again there are no Rules or requirements. So why would Aoi (& others like her) feel the need to be acknowledged by Sena, the problem lies on Aoi at this point.(if she feels insulted)
Harsh as it maybe yes Aoi IS nothing to Sena at this point, just another face in the crowd. Sena must of course change this if she plans to have more friends.

You know, that reminds me of a friend of mine- Whenever he insults us, his defense would be "I'm not attacking you! I'm just telling the truth!"

Naturally we beat him up for it but the point is a person can't go through life without thinking about other people.

Well sure I guess if you really want to you could, but don't expect other people to not get offended by it. They're only human you know.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It reflects poorly on you when you don't even know the people you're stuck together with. I'm not sure what it's like for western schools, but where I'm from whether you like them or not, you have to know the people in your own class.

In Western schools, knowing the names of all your classmates falls pretty firmly into the 'does not matter at all' category. I personally prefer it that way. In high school I tried to be conscientious and considerate whenever possible (I watched and listened intently whenever people gave oral reports, for example, because I thought it was pretty rude and hurtful the way everyone else spent the time dozing off, texting, or otherwise pointedly being inattentive), but I don't think it would have been any great sin not to know the name of each and every braindead sociopathic asshole I shared a classroom with. You meet one worth-less-than-ant-shit high schooler, you meet them all.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It's funny how you claim Yozora doesn't think of her as human, but brush aside Sena's not even acknowledge her classmates.

It is a mutual exclusion zone. The redhead chibi has yet to try to make Sena her friend, so far she is only trying to beat her academically and neither the chibi or the rest of her classmates have the faintest idea of who Sena really is, they only knows the rumors about Sena, what would Kodaka say? "You can't judge a book by it's cover (you need to read it)". From her eroge games we can all agree that if a another girl offered Sena to be her friend she would accept her immediately, no questions asked, no admission fee, all you can eat meat buffet.

What? There's no reason for Sena to acknowledge them? Well I guess the same could be said for Yozora.

Sena has acknowledged Yozora but since for Yozora admitting Sena as a human being would mean she can no longer attempt to remove Sena from her path as a mere pest, therefore she insists in not acknowledging her, quite different from the non-relation Sena has with her female classmates.

I'm not the one who says that they rather make friends with open books.

Open or closed, trying to manipulate your friends is most of the time a fruitless endeavor (unless you are truly machiavellian) and it will pollute the relationship sooner or later.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

In Western schools, knowing the names of all your classmates falls pretty firmly into the 'does not matter at all' category. I personally prefer it that way. In high school I tried to be conscientious and considerate whenever possible (I watched and listened intently whenever people gave oral reports, for example, because I thought it was pretty rude and hurtful the way everyone else spent the time dozing off, texting, or otherwise pointedly being inattentive), but I don't think it would have been any great sin not to know the name of each and every braindead sociopathic asshole I shared a classroom with. You meet one worth-less-than-ant-shit high schooler, you meet them all.

That would explain the lack of understanding regarding this mindset from some people.

It might be easily to think of us as one 'unit', what affects one of us affects the whole class in some ways.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

It is a mutual exclusion zone. The redhead chibi has yet to try to make Sena her friend, so far she is only trying to beat her academically and neither the chibi or the rest of her classmates have the faintest idea of who Sena really is, they only knows the rumors about her, what would Kodaka say? "You can't judge a book by it's cover (you need to read it)". From her eroge games we can all agree that if a another girl offered Sena to be her friend she would accept her immediately, no questions asked, no admission fee, all you can eat meat buffet.

It's not only friendship where one has to show a certain degree of respect.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Sena has acknowledged Yozora but since for Yozora admitting Sena as a human being would mean she can no longer attempt to remove Sena from her path as a mere pest, therefore she insists in not acknowledging her, quite different from the non-relation Sena has with her female classmates.

I would seriously argue that you're taking that one line she said in the heat of the moment far too literally.

But I already know you've already made up your mind and won't budge so I'm not going to waste my breath.

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Open or closed, trying to manipulate your friends is most of the time a fruitless endeavor (unless you are truly machiavellian) and it will pollute the relationship sooner or later.

*shrugged*

I've seen really weird friendships before... Believe me, till this day I'm wondering to myself how the hell did that worked out...

Anyway we both know how this would end, and I'm not the type to debate high and low so lets drop this issue... Again.

[garbage]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Except there are not billions of people in that classroom, there are at most maybe 30.

There is a social rule to show some basic courtesy.

that is why I said sena's might be an extreme case. Nevertheless I hardly consider not knowing your classmates names a breach of basic courtesy. this is quite common as a matter of fact, for introverts. Again this is a classroom not a party. It's not as if one is actively attacking the humanity of their classmates. Oh by the way "at most 30" would only apply to developed countries, it's quite common to have classes ranging from 50-80 even up to 100 in poor & developing countries due to lack of teachers & classrooms.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You know, that reminds me of a friend of mine- Whenever he insults us, his defense would be "I'm not attacking you! I'm just telling the truth!"

Naturally we beat him up for it but the point is a person can't go through life without thinking about other people.

Well sure I guess if you really want to you could, but don't expect other people to not get offended by it. They're only human you know.

ahaha no offense, but it seems it's hard to be friends with you. you "beat up" your friends? or rather why are you still friends with that guy?, or why is he still friends with you. unless that's just an exaggeration...
to the point of discussion though, of course! I quite agree people can't go through life (normally) without thinking about other people. That's why I said that is Sena's main issue, and she needs to change it if she wants to gain friends.
And yes people can live outside society , that's why there ARE hermits. (and hikkikomori it seems), as to others getting offended as I've said that is their problem.