[Umineko] Fan Fic EPX: The Witch of Despair VS Animesuki Detectives!

[Exilon]

Oh, quite some good ones So it's okay to assume that Kinzo and Natsuhi are working togheter. Hum, we're slowly progressing. I'm not making any more theoires for now, but I'll just post the following requests.

Spoiler for asked for recital:

- Kinzo just wants the best for his family.
- In the end of the story, both Natsuhi and Kinzo are dead.

[Asashio123]

Gleh... theories... theories...

Spoiler for My Long Theory for First Twilight:

- Eva hates Krauss, and loves George and possibly Hideyoshi.
- Rudolf cares for Kyrie and Battler.

For the first twillight, at least, Krauss (and Rosa) are probably the most suspicious of the siblings, just because of the people who died. After all, we know that Eva loves George, and that Rudolph loves Kyrie, and it would be hard to think of any situation so dire that they would want to kill the ones they love. Meanwhile, Natsuhi could have died of a natural reason (I'm still hanging on to this theory), and Jessica may have not died with all the others(I'll explain this below). For this one, I'm think Krauss as the culprit, and possibly Rosa as an accomplice, or Rosa as the culprit and Krauss as the accomplice/murderer. (I'm leaning more to the latter.)

-Rosa hated krauss nii-san and her other siblings.

Rosa, as we know, hates her siblings. I'll also willing to assume that she wants money. Of course, Rosa is suspicious, what with her child being the only one alive, and her frequent disappearances during the time of murder. However, I think she got Krauss and Nanjo on her side. For Krauss, I'm assuming she tricked him. Simply speaking, Rosa could have noticed Eva talking to Krauss after dinner (it does say 'without anyone noticing', but really, this is from Eva's point of view), and Krauss' nervous actions after it, and assumed that Eva had blackmailed him, in some way. Rosa could have later approached Krauss, and told him that she had overheard some plot to murder Natsuhi (did Rosa know about Natsuhi's illness?), taking advantage of Krauss' presumably paranoid state (from Eva's blackmailing), and making him even more paranoid.

It could be that Rosa was the one who drugged the tea (after all, she was the only one, besides Maria and the servants who left for the guest room, thus giving her a plausible excuse to NOT drink the drugged tea). Krauss, meanwhile, may have been too nervous during the conversation, to drink much tea, or he could have been tipped off by Rosa. As his siblings, their spouses, and their children fell asleep, Krauss could walk to Natsuhi's room to check on her (why he would do such a thing is somewhat unclear, but we can spin all sorts of tales to explain this). Upon reaching her room, he could see that she had presumably died (either of her illness, which seems to be pretty bad, or because she was killed.)

-Money is related to the killer/ culprit / accomplice's motive.

Again, I'm assuming that Rosa wants money. However, Krauss, the 'accomplice' could have been motivated, not by his father's fortune, but by the death of his wife (and presumably, his child?). Jessica's location during this is awfully vague, and I notice that she is not really accounted for. Thus, Krauss, seeing the dead Natsuhi, and not being able to find Jessica, might assume that the plot Rosa told him about was true. Then, it could have been that, in anger, he went back to the living room and killed his sibling's spouses and children, and hid them somewhere. Again, there is an inconsistency here, as to why Krauss did not kill Rudolf and Eva, but again, it can be explained. Perhaps morning had almost come, and Krauss was afraid that the two would wake up. Perhaps he wanted his siblings alive, as to coerce them into telling him who exactly who responsible for the plot.

"It’s definitely her! Who else on this damn deserted island has blonde hair other than you and Rosa!? Be Rational already! But I don’t know why, when she noticed that I saw her, it was as if she was trying to avoid me, and ran up this path. Darn! What the hell is she thinking!? Can it be that Natsuhi is with her too?!”

During all this, Rosa and Maria are coincidentally absent. Again, I have no idea about Jessica's whereabouts during the incident. Aside from that though, Jessica was probably brought somewhere outside the mansion and kept there by Rosa and/or Nanjo. She could have easily been blackmailed to stay in the forest and not to show herself .Something like, "If you show yourself to anyone, we will kill Krauss" would work; Jessica is pretty young and naive, anyways, and she probably cares enough for her father. However, she probably is old enough to guess that she would be killed, and thus, tried to escape. This is when Krauss sees her running up the hill. Of course, Jessica probably wasn't trying to avoid Krauss, but the murderer. Then, something could have happened, to result in her death (maybe she fell down the hill because of a trap set by Rosa/Nanjo?)

Of course, while this is happening, Rosa and Maria, are, again, mysteriously absent. From around, say, 7:45 (when she and Maria went back into the building), to around 8:45, she could have found the bodies (obviously, Krauss had a very limited time to carry out his murders, so it's likely that he didn't hide the bodies in some very complicated and hard-to-find place. Rather, he probably hid them in some rather obvious place. There have to many corners like that in an island so big, eh?), and, with the help of a servant (I'd say Kumasawa or Gohda, they seem desperate enough for money), could have set up the First Twillight.

Wow, that's long enough. Of course, there are some inconsistencies, and stretches of logic, but for the most part, they can probably be replaced by other events that produce the same results. Of course, this isn't my 'ultimate theory', but just some stuff that 'could' happen. Gleh, I also have possible theories for the Second-Eighth Twillight, but I'll keep them till later. And yes, I should express my theories in point form, shouldn't I, or they'll probably get way too long.

Other then that, I have some recitals;

Spoiler for Recitals:

-Everything that is described in EPX did happen (as in, the narrator is not an Unreliable Narrator.)
-Jessica loves Krauss and Natsuhi.
-Eva has blackmailed Krauss many times before.
-Natsuhi was not poisoned (you know, the bread crumbs on her dress?)
-Krauss has a secret that is directly related to the murders.
-Eva's secret/blackmail is directly related to the murders.
-Maria is interested in the occult, and Beatrice (as shown in the real game).

Nowies, time to write out my theory for the other Twilights.

[Exilon]

asashio, I have a reason to believe the first of your statements will be refused. Mainly because there are4 already soem things written in the text that were denied in red, as for example, in the first twilight, when the narrator says "that means, that the only possibility was locked inside the room, with all windows and doors locked!" (or something like that) but later on Nadeor recited something I asked:
- The windows of the living room can't be locked from outside.
- The windows of the living room were not locked when the hanged six were found.

so right there we've got an incosistency. Unless, of course, Nadeor did a mistake when translating, but I doubt it. xD

[Asashio123]

Huh... well, that's probably true, but here we are talking about events. For example, the narration may be taking a third-person-limited point of view, detailing, let's say Rudolf's point of view (Rudolf assumes that the windows are locked, thus it is said so in the story. However, if Rudolf witnesses, let's say, Kyrie being killed, the text will state it, whether Rudolf wants others to know, or not). However, the story could also be, let's say, Rosa recounting her experiences to a police force, in which case she could lie that she, say, was giving Maria cake in the main house, as opposed to preparing the First Twilight.

Or in other words, you're probably right, but there is nothing wrong with trying.

[Nadeor]

The Frog inside the well is supposed to be happy
Since it knows nothing about the world outside of it

The Frog inside the well is supposed to be happy
Since no matter what happens outside, it's none of its concern

The Frog inside the well is supposed to be happy
Since it never knew what had happened outside the well...

---------Frederica Bernkastel

A little poem by our lady Bernkastel, this should help you to solve this mystery ^_^

=====================================

Well yeah I probably did make some mistakes, so if you find any incosistency, please do ask them in Blue Words, to separate from the black and red
I will then go double-check with the original text, after all the author did a pretty bad job to explain some important details such as windows and doors, so I only assumed that they weren't locked =_=|||

...Or Was I? =v=
Remember, things aren't always what they seems...
God I hate that stupid discovery show now! It's torturing my mind! =口= 囧!!!!!!!

=============================

Jshcc, if you are reading this, I will have to leave Asashio's long theory for you to translate =v=

Spoiler for Recitals:

-Jessica loves Krauss and Natsuhi.
-Eva has blackmailed Krauss many times before.
-Natsuhi was not poisoned (you know, the bread crumbs on her dress?)
-Krauss has a secret that is directly related to the murders.
-Eva's secret/blackmail is directly related to the murders.
-Maria is interested in the occult, and Beatrice (as shown in the real game).

[Nadeor]

Here's another one which I enjoy by Bernkastel =v=
This one's just pure evil and justifies some pranks possible in the school

Today a really nice thing happened to me
I found a pin inside the shoe I put earlier inside my locker

This meant, that among the 50 students inside my class
Someone liked and paid more attention to me out of all the rest

Overwhelmed by the happiness it gave me, I decide to share the love
So to return the favor, I placed a pin inside the shoe in every other's locker

-------------Frederica Bernkastel

This one cracked me up XD
It sounds so evil and probably is what happened to Ryukishi earlier in his life XD

================================================== ===================

Oh yeah, just to make it fair, since there're only 7 days in which the game left:

For all the red statements I recited so far, although some may seem awkward and contradicts to the other, BUT, They can ALL be JUSTIFIED!

Any further I might spoil the entire thing, so yea, sorry ^_^

[jonnysalaris]

im giving a maria theory that will make me look stupid...

Spoiler for accomplice maria:

hey nadeor, those poems make me think maria is an accomplice even though everyone will think i'm stupid. your poems might be describing maria.. i don't know how to explain how she became an accomplice in detail.. but from this

The Frog inside the well is supposed to be happy
Since it knows nothing about the world outside of it

The Frog inside the well is supposed to be happy
Since no matter what happens outside, it's none of its concern

The Frog inside the well is supposed to be happy
Since it never knew what had happened outside the well...

---------Frederica Bernkastel

she may be doing an adult's orders w/o knowing the consequence, all she knows is that it will make her happy because, what she does is "related to beatrice"

and from

Today a really nice thing happened to me
I found a pin inside the shoe I put earlier inside my locker

This meant, that among the 50 students inside my class
Someone liked and paid more attention to me out of all the rest

Overwhelmed by the happiness it gave me, I decide to share the love
So to return the favor, I placed a pin inside the shoe in every other's locker

-------------Frederica Bernkastel

someone might have make her believe that she might be doing a prank that will "please" everybody by being an accomplice.

i guess this theory is stupid but i have this feeling that maria is involved somehow...

[Nadeor]

Ignore the second poem please, you know it's just there for fun =_=|||

[jonnysalaris]

oh hahaha!!! got carried away with maria! but i got the gist of it right? or should i ask some recitals in red to indirectly answer my question?

Spoiler for recitals (maria...):

-maria is obeying rosa with no second thoughts.
-maria can cry at will.
-the 4 cousins are accomplices.
-at least one of the 4 cousins is an accomplice.

[jonnysalaris]

hehehe.. i got another theory but i don't know how to prove them.

Spoiler for survivors:

all the survivors are the culprits/accomplices/murderers. all of them took part in an incident. like for example: maria and rosa; nanjo and eva; rudolf. rosa could have done murder a, eva did b, etc.
a survivor took part in one of the killings but he/she don't know that the other survivors also took part in of the killings, and vice versa.

ps. it's possible that only one of the survivors is innocent while the rest are guilty.

still don't know "who did what and how" exactly. but im giving 70% in this theory.
i hope i'm right.

[ClockWorkAngel]

I have some thoughts, let's start working on how everyone is shall we?

Spoiler for Theories:

We can safely assume that Natsuhi and Kinzo are working together. Also we can assume that Genji is also working with them. Why? Simple, he is the only person tohave seen Kinzo write his will, therefore when it was discovered, he would have identified it for the rest of the survivors at that time. Instead he didn't.

What irks me is his statement on seeing Kinzo and Krauss kill one another and agreeing that they did. For that reason I am actually leaning on the side of the that she works with them. If we look at it carefully, we can assume that neither Krauss or Kinzo were murdered, infact since we can assume that Genji is not lying and that Rosa's thoughts could not conflict with Genji's, we can assume that Rosa actually is working with Kinzo and Natsuhi. Kinzo might have died from a heart attack though.

Recite!

Kinzo died from a heart attack.

Eva's blackmail worries me and it calls for a recital;

Eva knows what Natushi is planning.

I wonder how Krauss stands with this however, more than likely he was actually willing to shoot Kinzo, but that has yet to be seen.

Alternatively to the Rosa being an acomplice with them, we can assume that Genji had killed Krauss somehow.

Recital please!

Genji killed Krauss.

Something else irks me, this recital;

Kinzo's will which was left in his study, was left there under the knowledge of the Culprit

But that would mean, either Rosa, Genji, Krauss or Kinzo!

We know that Rosa is not the culprit but is the accomplice. Kinzo also has been confirmed to have died by natural causes. Krauss is a suspect and we actually haven't confirm his death.

So we should confirm it now, recital please!

Krauss was killed.

On the subject of the first twilight, it's awkward how they died, I'm assuming poison though.

Perhaps more later.

[Nadeor]

Clockworkangel I'm afraid I can't recite them because I can't recite any request directly referencing to the 'truth' of something, etc. "Kanon is the one who killed Gohda" or anything similar to that. However, I can only give out possible hints through red words, take all those which I did not recite "Refused"

[ClockWorkAngel]

But I thought that only applied for the Chinese forums :/

It would have been better just to take the offer if we couldn't make use of the things we'd give up <.<

Now it's just a guessing game.

[jonnysalaris]

excuse me nadeor, are these statements refused?

Spoiler for recitals:

-maria is obeying rosa with no second thoughts.
-maria can cry at will.
-the 4 cousins are accomplices.
-at least one of the 4 cousins is an accomplice.

[Exilon]

CWA, we're almost in the same line of thought. Although, if Natsuhi's dead (which hasn't been confirmed, I do not recall seeing a red statement), then someone else is either the culprit or is following her orders (this is where Kinzo comes in, and we know they're working togheter). I want to find out what Krauss secret is, and what Eva is blackmailing him with.

Since Nanjo is not always sure about the deaths, I must say he's a stupid doctor. :P but he could have mistaken Natsuhi's death, because she was already in a state where it's hard to distinguish if she's dead or not (as said by Nanjo to Eva). Still I don't know how you can be hanged but sill not dead. Anyways, if we assume all the six are dead, then Rosa and Genji are at fault here.

And I still suspect Rosa, she HAS lied, after all.

Spoiler for asked for recital:

- Someone other than Eva knows about her plan without her knowledge. (this excludes Krauss)
- Eva does not threaten to kill Krauss.
- Kumasawa did not lie about having visited Natsuhi after the lunch of the first day.
- Someone other than themselves knows about Kinzo and Natsuhi's plan.
- Somone other than Rosa took all the food in the fridge away.
- The one who killed Krauss, was not Kinzo.
- Hideyoshi, Battler, George and Kyrie are sick of hearing about all the money-talk.
- In the second day, someone stayed for a while in the guest hotel without anyone knowing.
- In this story, the dead can sometimes walk.
- "Dead" means that the person who is dead is definitly and completely dead, and hasn't faked his/her death.

[Goose Boy]

Konnichiwa! Had to be absent some days... my theories are getting more consitent and this time ill ask the following: ( NONE OF THE STATEMENTS ARE DIRECT):

Spoiler for statements:

-The shrine was destroyed by fear.
-The shrine was destroyed to "please" beatrice.
-Definetely Krauss is dead and is killed by a gun ( this is somewhat direct)
-Some or all the servants doesnt like certain masters.
-Genji is kinzo´s most beloved spokeperson.
-Kinzo praised natsuhi´s nobility.
-Rosa lied in some cases about october 4th and 5th ( you (nadeor) said before that someone lied).
-The mastermind´s goals are related with both money and magic.
-Rosa influenced or teached some of black magic to maria.

[ClockWorkAngel]

Spoiler for Allegiances:

I have a feeling that Rosa and Genji are accomplices. Genji most likely the murder, he has access to ALL rooms, trusted by most people. Nanjo is also an accomplice too most likely even if only forced.

Is there a particular reason for why the food has all disappeared? Perhaps this is a hint that someone is still alive, who is supposed to be dead?

I'm worried however that both Genji and Rosa know about Kinzo and Krauss' deaths. They SHOULD be against them.

I have a feeling that the Natsuhi group is aware of the Eva group's plan and vice versa.
Rosa + Genji are most liekly in Natsuhi's group (Last time I checked she didn't hat her, only her siblings)

The Cousins more or likely in the Eva group (With perhaps the exception of Jessica).

Regardless, we can know that the allegiances of the children are opposite of that of Genji and Rosa. Then afterwards we can piece up everyone else's standing.

It's looking like a big schism!

[Exilon]

Spoiler for contradiction?:

Eva did not mention anything after seeing the dead people, and she was pretty torn up about it. If she was aware of the other groups plan, wouldn't she have connected the dots? Just making up a suposition, but that's actually kinda what I was thinking.

And what if it's in another way, and Genji and Rosa are actually against Kinzo and Natsuhi?
although, then Krauss would be left out, as his secret has something to do with the deaths.
Maybe, as someone suggested, someone overheard Eva and Krauss and decided to take action.

In my theory, Natsuhi and Kinzo are the culprits and they are doing this to redempt their family from corruption, in the way convicing some people to join their cause, like Jessica, who supposedly lured the gang out of the guest house so the first twilight could be prepared. Of course, again the most suspicious is Rosa, so I'm doubting that she's not in Natsuhi's group. But if this was the case, then Genji would have to be in it as well, forcing the 2 groups to only be one.

And Rosa has a motive to be an accomplice of Natsuhi- she doesn't like the arguing and she knows she can't get any money out of her siblings, so by letting Kinzo write the will, she knows she will get at least a portion.

As for the food in the fridge, I'm pretty sure someone took it to keep themselves alive while presumably hiding (in the forest, for example).

[Nadeor]

Spoiler for Recitals:

-maria can cry at will.
-at least one of the 4 cousins is an accomplice.

- Someone other than Eva knows about her plan without her knowledge. (this excludes Krauss)
- Eva does not threaten to kill Krauss.
- Kumasawa did not lie about having visited Natsuhi after the lunch of the first day.
- Someone other than themselves knows about Kinzo and Natsuhi's plan.
- The one who killed Krauss, was not Kinzo.
- Hideyoshi, Battler, George and Kyrie are sick of hearing about all the money-talk.
- In the second day, someone stayed for a while in the guest hotel without anyone knowing.
- In this story, the dead canNOT sometimes walk. (*WTF =_=|||*)


Again, No Witches such as Beatrice exists within this EPX, and people aren't afraid of Beatrice before first twilight took place

-Definetely Krauss is dead and is killed by a gun ( this is somewhat direct, yes I know, so I will give it to you now since there's not much time left)
-Some or all the servants doesnt like certain masters.
-Genji is kinzo´s most beloved spokeperson.
-The mastermind´s goals are related with both money and magic.

Anyways, since you guys are making a forseeable progress, the Witch of Despair-sama is pretty worried, so under her order I have to refuse all direct references regards to the truth. The one I gave you about Krauss' death is just to give you a little push.

I have a feeling that you guys are taking too much reference from the original works
No spell circles of any form existed when the first twilight happened
No spell circles of any form existed when the second twilight happend
No spell circles of any form existed on Rokkenjima, by 'existed' meant drawn to something on a purpose to be shown to the public

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Here are some reticals:

Spoiler for Reticals:

-Maria was not obsessed with Beatrice in this episode.
- Maria loved her cousins.
- When Rosa said she and Maria went to the rose garden they did not go there.
- Rosa drugged Maria.
- Natsuhi died of her illness (headache).