AnimeSuki Forums

Clarste · 2010-01-08, 14:16

What's wrong with HoS and HoL? I don't exactly like them, but honestly whenever I get randomed anywhere I think to myself "oh great, not this place again". I think I just hate all the dungeons equally now, probably because they all feel like wastes of time that I'm obligated to do for emblems.

Oh yeah, so what's so bad about HoS or HoL in particular?

RWBladewing · 2010-01-08, 15:14

HoS I don't enjoy because of the 2 optional bosses that people are never willing to skip, especially the giant who has so many trash pulls. Yeah they're brainless and easy but it wastes time. Even worse is the Brann event which is long and can't be shortened by out-gearing/out-skilling it, and most of the time is spent just standing around.

HoL I don't really have any idea though. Maybe people still have memories of when Loken was considered hard instead of just a big trash mob you can kill in under 20 seconds before he even lightning novas once?

Last Sinner · 2010-01-08, 18:54

Blade explained exactly why myself and my guildies blow up the moment we get HoS. As for HoL, my problem is that the majority of random healers that do a good job suddenly lose their mind when they hit the room with Titanium Vanguards and die every 2nd pack. They just never seem to notice the poison debuff killing them...

Ithekro · 2010-01-08, 21:51

Most groups ask now if OK, HoS are full runs or just kill the required bosses. HoL isn't all that long...just big. Honestly the hardest part now is the trice damned Slag Pit and the stairs above it. If the group is going to loose anyone...or wipe even, it is there. Massive armor reduction debuff plus high chance of overpull/adds equal death.

HoR seems easier now...maybe because most of the tanks that do it are marking the ghostly priests and such for death first...because I can't see in those corners half the time. Also since people have been running it for a few weeks now, they can judge if a group has enough dps to do the run/good healer.

Skane · 2010-01-08, 22:01

H-HoR was nerfed recently, and the internal gearscore check was raised in one of the latest hotfix. So... yeah.

I seldom skip bosses in any dungeon because it would feel incomplete. True, I don't really have any more use for the Triumph emblems other than for Epic Gems, but not every person in the party may be in the same situation. Especially for the DPS, who may have waited 20+ mins to get into a Random Heroic.

If one truly desires the shortest possible run, it would be for the best if you made yourself leader, grab a few Guildies in the same situation, and then hit the Random Heroic. If you picked up any Puggy to fill in the gaps, it would be basic courtesy to inform them at the start if they don't mind skipping out on some emblems (or potential gear upgrades from the boss loot).

Cheers.

Ithekro · 2010-01-08, 22:21

I find it fun that I've managed to gear up so much in the last two months the gearscore checker says I can run Icecrown 10/25 now (normal I'm guessing). I've hit capped (or can be just by replacing a single trinket), or I can wait a tad and get a different shoulders and maybe hands and then use Suppression without the trinket at all for hit capped. Considering that two months ago I was certain I'd never step foot in a modern raid, and now I've run rep in ICC up to friendly so far. Haven't taken on a boss yet, but at least now I won't miss.

It seems the concept of crit/haste for destruction warlocks has changed since last I paided attention. The gears shifts between lots of haste or lots of crit (and quite possibly too much hit, even without enchants or gems). I'm lead to believe that warlock (Destro) don't need crit anymore, but haste on top of haste when not stacking spell power.

I've also noticed that I keep picking up the items with Spirit on them more often since I was an early believer of "Spirit equals Spell Power" motto. While I avoid any that have mp5 on them if I can, I still stack spirit if there is an upgrade to other items as well...just because talented and glyphed its basically 2 Spirit equals 1 Spell Power or more (10 Spirit = 3.9 Spell Power talented plus Life Tap Glyph should be 2 more Spell Power per 10 Spirit while active, so 5.9 Spell Power per 10 Spirit).

Xacual · 2010-01-09, 03:05

Just got done doing my cycle of randoms before reset and I was impressed. My paladin one was awesome, 11 minute Nexus run. My mage one on the other hand....

Ok so I enter the instance I immediately notice that its not a fresh run and that there is someone other then I that just joined. Its a healer shaman and I ask and apparently the other 3, an ele shaman, a prot warrior and paladin had just killed first boss. I noticed that they had been in the instance 11 minutes already, I was already thinking that the instance was going to be bad. The tank kept pulling with taunt, he'd basically ignore all other mobs and just use his abilities on the one he pulled, also spamming taunt on it despite my constant direction that taunting a mob already attacking you does nothing but waste it. Basically from the time I joined it was 10 minutes to the next boss and another 6 to the elemental boss. If it wasn't for my mage's awesome dps and assisting not to mention frost nova + sheep stuff hat got loose, we probably would have wiped at least twice clearing the last area of trash before Loken's room.

Tokkan · 2010-01-09, 05:35

Blizz are considering making authenticators mandatory.

Hmm... well, I already have one anyway.

RWBladewing · 2010-01-09, 10:01

Was just in an Oculus group where the tank left immediately, healer started bitching immediately, and then since she got leader decided to sit around for 15 minutes instead of requeue'ing to find a new tank. Apparently "oculus is boring and I'd rather do something I enjoy". Like standing around for 15 minutes right? Refused to leave even after the 15 minute debuff was gone, assuming to try and avoid deserter. Was pretty funny seeing her say "I'm not leaving so you guys can sit here all day if you want" right before she got kicked. Piece of trash.

Last Sinner · 2010-01-09, 10:40

Stepped into the new wing of ICC today.

Festergut - Pure DPS race combined with proper spacing. Feels like Thaddius meets Loatheb meets Saurfang. Downed on 25 on 4th/final attempt with seconds remaining. Melee carry this fight, it sucks to be range on this. 10 man is rather simple. 25 will make you loathe being a caster and love being melee.

Rotface - Fairly technical. Very reminiscent of Grobbulus, mainly due to the slimes. Once you get little slime -> big slime transitions and avoiding spew and explosions down, it's definitely doable. Still, it was somewhat of a challenge on 10 and apparently it's nerfed considerably. Beginning to wonder how painful 25 will be. it is a good challenge but the reliance on others will drive some people nuts, guaranteed.

Professor Putricide - Apparently this guy is a MAJOR stumbling block. Not many kills in 25 worldwide (around 50 I think?) and on 10 he's still bloody hard. In fact, it feels like Heroic Mode full stop! Positioning, timing and coordination are so finite that this is definitely the first major mindflock of ICC. This guy is going to break a LOT of people. Managed to reach phase 2 in my group but this guy is such a step-up from recent content it's scary. I dread 25 mode....

WoW.com's joke of a faceroll of this wing has already been refuted. This 2nd wing is not cake. Putricide alone is a real spanner in the works.

And I paid 21k for Deathbringer's Will in an ICC gdkp tonight on my shaman. BEST. TRINKET. EVER. My god.....the difference in dps before and after is so staggering I'm speechless...

Clarste · 2010-01-09, 12:42

Rotface is actually a bit easier on 25 man, because he casts the debuff at the same rate even though there's 2.5 times as many people. This means that your dps and healing aren't slowed down by it nearly as much, so he dies faster and it's safer because you have more healing going around.

Festergut is certainly easier in melee range, but you only need a few people to stand at range to eat the debuff (3 for 10 and 8 for 25). All the other casters can stand in melee range and just blow him up without thinking. My guild didn't realize this at first, so I kinda snuck into melee range without telling anyone and got #4 dps right behind the rogues (25 man version). Ah... I'm a horrible person.

Xacual · 2010-01-09, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokkan

Blizz are considering making authenticators mandatory.

Hmm... well, I already have one anyway.

Umm, wow.com is not an official source.

Statonxyb · 2010-01-09, 15:18

Even if it were a reliable source and Blizzard actually put that stupid motion into effect, they'd better send me one free of charge as I won't waste money on it. I have no sympathy for people who get their accounts hijacked, because chances are they're the same people who click objectionable links, actually reply with their account information to phishing e-mails, and use LimeWire as their primary downloading source.

Clarste · 2010-01-09, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statonxyb

Even if it were a reliable source and Blizzard actually put that stupid motion into effect, they'd better send me one free of charge as I won't waste money on it. I have no sympathy for people who get their accounts hijacked, because chances are they're the same people who click objectionable links, actually reply with their account information to phishing e-mails, and use LimeWire as their primary downloading source.

Everyone says this until they get hacked. While there probably are extremely stupid people who do extremely stupid things, I think the majority of people who get hacked haven't made any completely obvious errors, they just weren't sufficiently paranoid. It only takes one keylogger to get through once.

Ithekro · 2010-01-10, 04:35

Finally did some actual raid content with the guild...PUG mostly 80s AQ20/AQ40 and Hyjal. Hyjal was 25 man, the others were like 15 man raids. (wiped on the twins when we had a 10 man raid with only one healer)

Just popped in the hit trinket...over hit capped, but not worried about it because I'm not missing, and only over by about 14 points which is less than any Item I have to swap out without either being under the hit cap, or hinder my other needs (spell power being number one) Also that the hit trinket at this point replaces the Dire Brew 84 crit/590 SP proc. trinket with a hit/haste Use trinket, its fine. Better that than the Wintergrasp pvp hit/escape button trinket that humans don't need. (the other trinket is the 111 SP/escape button that humans don't need Wintergrasp trinket because spell power is always useful.)

Zenemis · 2010-01-10, 04:52

amg putricide is overtuned o.o

Tokkan · 2010-01-10, 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xacual

Umm, wow.com is not an official source.

Yes, I know. But they've been considerably reliable in the past.

Last Sinner · 2010-01-10, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenemis

amg putricide is overtuned o.o

I'm calling nerg either next maintenance or when Crimson Wing comes live. It's just ridiculous....I like the setup, but the demand on healers and absolute perfection...for a halfway boss, definitely feels too much like Heroic mode.

Did kill Rotface on 25 today. As suspected, some people just didn't get what to do with the slimes...and somehow there was always a trio of big slimes at some point. At least it was downed. Loot was terrible but a kill is a kill.

Saw a Tich druid get the Oculus drake tonight. It is possible. No idea about the chance, though. Wowhead hasn't even listed the loot bag yet.

RWBladewing · 2010-01-10, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Finally did some actual raid content with the guild...PUG mostly 80s AQ20/AQ40 and Hyjal. Hyjal was 25 man, the others were like 15 man raids. (wiped on the twins when we had a 10 man raid with only one healer)

Raids that were cleared at lv 60 with tanks with 8k hp and people doing 500 dps are not actual raid content anymore. Most of the bosses in AQ have less hp and hit for less damage than Scourgelord Tyrannus in heroic PoS.

Same deal with Hyjal, a full 25 man raid for an instance meant for people 10 levels lower is not actual raid content. The final boss has half the HP of Archavon. More complicated fight, sure, but it doesn't matter when a competent group should easily be able to burn him down in less than 30 seconds.

Can't believe I'm saying this but even Naxx is real raid content compared to this.

Zenemis · 2010-01-10, 23:51

Felmyst still wipes 80 raids

2010-01-08, 18:54	Link #4563
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Blade explained exactly why myself and my guildies blow up the moment we get HoS. As for HoL, my problem is that the majority of random healers that do a good job suddenly lose their mind when they hit the room with Titanium Vanguards and die every 2nd pack. They just never seem to notice the poison debuff killing them... __________________

2010-01-08, 21:51	Link #4564
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Most groups ask now if OK, HoS are full runs or just kill the required bosses. HoL isn't all that long...just big. Honestly the hardest part now is the trice damned Slag Pit and the stairs above it. If the group is going to loose anyone...or wipe even, it is there. Massive armor reduction debuff plus high chance of overpull/adds equal death. HoR seems easier now...maybe because most of the tanks that do it are marking the ghostly priests and such for death first...because I can't see in those corners half the time. Also since people have been running it for a few weeks now, they can judge if a group has enough dps to do the run/good healer. __________________

2010-01-08, 22:01	Link #4565
Skane Anime Snark Join Date: May 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 41	H-HoR was nerfed recently, and the internal gearscore check was raised in one of the latest hotfix. So... yeah. I seldom skip bosses in any dungeon because it would feel incomplete. True, I don't really have any more use for the Triumph emblems other than for Epic Gems, but not every person in the party may be in the same situation. Especially for the DPS, who may have waited 20+ mins to get into a Random Heroic. If one truly desires the shortest possible run, it would be for the best if you made yourself leader, grab a few Guildies in the same situation, and then hit the Random Heroic. If you picked up any Puggy to fill in the gaps, it would be basic courtesy to inform them at the start if they don't mind skipping out on some emblems (or potential gear upgrades from the boss loot). Cheers. __________________ Hearthstone Battletag: Skane#1425 [Can't GIF This], [Jail's House of Rock], [Kanon In The Snow], [She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum], [She Stabs] Founder of "The Cult of Psycho-Moe", Member of "ARIA the Social Group" & the "Belkan Saint Church".

2010-01-08, 22:21	Link #4566
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I find it fun that I've managed to gear up so much in the last two months the gearscore checker says I can run Icecrown 10/25 now (normal I'm guessing). I've hit capped (or can be just by replacing a single trinket), or I can wait a tad and get a different shoulders and maybe hands and then use Suppression without the trinket at all for hit capped. Considering that two months ago I was certain I'd never step foot in a modern raid, and now I've run rep in ICC up to friendly so far. Haven't taken on a boss yet, but at least now I won't miss. It seems the concept of crit/haste for destruction warlocks has changed since last I paided attention. The gears shifts between lots of haste or lots of crit (and quite possibly too much hit, even without enchants or gems). I'm lead to believe that warlock (Destro) don't need crit anymore, but haste on top of haste when not stacking spell power. I've also noticed that I keep picking up the items with Spirit on them more often since I was an early believer of "Spirit equals Spell Power" motto. While I avoid any that have mp5 on them if I can, I still stack spirit if there is an upgrade to other items as well...just because talented and glyphed its basically 2 Spirit equals 1 Spell Power or more (10 Spirit = 3.9 Spell Power talented plus Life Tap Glyph should be 2 more Spell Power per 10 Spirit while active, so 5.9 Spell Power per 10 Spirit). __________________

2010-01-09, 03:05	Link #4567
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Just got done doing my cycle of randoms before reset and I was impressed. My paladin one was awesome, 11 minute Nexus run. My mage one on the other hand.... Ok so I enter the instance I immediately notice that its not a fresh run and that there is someone other then I that just joined. Its a healer shaman and I ask and apparently the other 3, an ele shaman, a prot warrior and paladin had just killed first boss. I noticed that they had been in the instance 11 minutes already, I was already thinking that the instance was going to be bad. The tank kept pulling with taunt, he'd basically ignore all other mobs and just use his abilities on the one he pulled, also spamming taunt on it despite my constant direction that taunting a mob already attacking you does nothing but waste it. Basically from the time I joined it was 10 minutes to the next boss and another 6 to the elemental boss. If it wasn't for my mage's awesome dps and assisting not to mention frost nova + sheep stuff hat got loose, we probably would have wiped at least twice clearing the last area of trash before Loken's room. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy

2010-01-08, 14:16	Link #4561
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	What's wrong with HoS and HoL? I don't exactly like them, but honestly whenever I get randomed anywhere I think to myself "oh great, not this place again". I think I just hate all the dungeons equally now, probably because they all feel like wastes of time that I'm obligated to do for emblems. Oh yeah, so what's so bad about HoS or HoL in particular?

2010-01-08, 15:14	Link #4562
RWBladewing Salt Levels Critical Join Date: Oct 2007	HoS I don't enjoy because of the 2 optional bosses that people are never willing to skip, especially the giant who has so many trash pulls. Yeah they're brainless and easy but it wastes time. Even worse is the Brann event which is long and can't be shortened by out-gearing/out-skilling it, and most of the time is spent just standing around. HoL I don't really have any idea though. Maybe people still have memories of when Loken was considered hard instead of just a big trash mob you can kill in under 20 seconds before he even lightning novas once?

2010-01-09, 05:35	Link #4568
Tokkan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Age: 35	Blizz are considering making authenticators mandatory. Hmm... well, I already have one anyway.

2010-01-09, 10:01	Link #4569
RWBladewing Salt Levels Critical Join Date: Oct 2007	Was just in an Oculus group where the tank left immediately, healer started bitching immediately, and then since she got leader decided to sit around for 15 minutes instead of requeue'ing to find a new tank. Apparently "oculus is boring and I'd rather do something I enjoy". Like standing around for 15 minutes right? Refused to leave even after the 15 minute debuff was gone, assuming to try and avoid deserter. Was pretty funny seeing her say "I'm not leaving so you guys can sit here all day if you want" right before she got kicked. Piece of trash.

2010-01-09, 10:40	Link #4570
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Stepped into the new wing of ICC today. Festergut - Pure DPS race combined with proper spacing. Feels like Thaddius meets Loatheb meets Saurfang. Downed on 25 on 4th/final attempt with seconds remaining. Melee carry this fight, it sucks to be range on this. 10 man is rather simple. 25 will make you loathe being a caster and love being melee. Rotface - Fairly technical. Very reminiscent of Grobbulus, mainly due to the slimes. Once you get little slime -> big slime transitions and avoiding spew and explosions down, it's definitely doable. Still, it was somewhat of a challenge on 10 and apparently it's nerfed considerably. Beginning to wonder how painful 25 will be. it is a good challenge but the reliance on others will drive some people nuts, guaranteed. Professor Putricide - Apparently this guy is a MAJOR stumbling block. Not many kills in 25 worldwide (around 50 I think?) and on 10 he's still bloody hard. In fact, it feels like Heroic Mode full stop! Positioning, timing and coordination are so finite that this is definitely the first major mindflock of ICC. This guy is going to break a LOT of people. Managed to reach phase 2 in my group but this guy is such a step-up from recent content it's scary. I dread 25 mode.... WoW.com's joke of a faceroll of this wing has already been refuted. This 2nd wing is not cake. Putricide alone is a real spanner in the works. And I paid 21k for Deathbringer's Will in an ICC gdkp tonight on my shaman. BEST. TRINKET. EVER. My god.....the difference in dps before and after is so staggering I'm speechless... __________________

2010-01-09, 12:42	Link #4571
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Rotface is actually a bit easier on 25 man, because he casts the debuff at the same rate even though there's 2.5 times as many people. This means that your dps and healing aren't slowed down by it nearly as much, so he dies faster and it's safer because you have more healing going around. Festergut is certainly easier in melee range, but you only need a few people to stand at range to eat the debuff (3 for 10 and 8 for 25). All the other casters can stand in melee range and just blow him up without thinking. My guild didn't realize this at first, so I kinda snuck into melee range without telling anyone and got #4 dps right behind the rogues (25 man version). Ah... I'm a horrible person.

2010-01-09, 15:18	Link #4573
Statonxyb hrm Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New York, USA Age: 37	Even if it were a reliable source and Blizzard actually put that stupid motion into effect, they'd better send me one free of charge as I won't waste money on it. I have no sympathy for people who get their accounts hijacked, because chances are they're the same people who click objectionable links, actually reply with their account information to phishing e-mails, and use LimeWire as their primary downloading source. __________________

2010-01-10, 04:35	Link #4575
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Finally did some actual raid content with the guild...PUG mostly 80s AQ20/AQ40 and Hyjal. Hyjal was 25 man, the others were like 15 man raids. (wiped on the twins when we had a 10 man raid with only one healer) Just popped in the hit trinket...over hit capped, but not worried about it because I'm not missing, and only over by about 14 points which is less than any Item I have to swap out without either being under the hit cap, or hinder my other needs (spell power being number one) Also that the hit trinket at this point replaces the Dire Brew 84 crit/590 SP proc. trinket with a hit/haste Use trinket, its fine. Better that than the Wintergrasp pvp hit/escape button trinket that humans don't need. (the other trinket is the 111 SP/escape button that humans don't need Wintergrasp trinket because spell power is always useful.) __________________

2010-01-10, 04:52	Link #4576
Zenemis Megabuddy IT Support Join Date: May 2006 Location: Perth, Australia. Age: 16	amg putricide is overtuned o.o __________________

2010-01-10, 23:51	Link #4580
Zenemis Megabuddy IT Support Join Date: May 2006 Location: Perth, Australia. Age: 16	Felmyst still wipes 80 raids __________________