Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Dann of Thursday]

I have to admit that the final villain of s-CRY-ed left something to be desired since I just didn't feel there was much at risk. The final episode was just awesome though. GXS had its flaws, but I enjoyed watching it for the most part though I did feel the first half was much stronger which is why I worry that the second half may not be as good as the first.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^
Reboot = Sometimes Fail IMO

Now ep 2 definatley made up for it a bit, but still reboot episodes like in R2 basically tell the audience all the angst, intensity, and spirit they put into last season is a balled-up piece of trash to us now...

Well that actually is the general idea of it. All that intensity and emotion and whatnot leads the protagonist to his own destruction. But since they survived to fight another day, that's all in the past now. >_>

"a ray of hope, a vague wish, can only spark from despair"

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Well the thing about Gun X Sword is that it started really brilliant and creative then it somehow found it's way back to cliche'-ally where it pitstops for the final arc of episodes leaving a bit of a bad taste...Sorta how CG Season 1's final ep did with the shot vs. shot finale, and also like the horrible technique of using a reboot in R2 ep 1...So he's already done it thrice, I'd hate to see him do it a fourth time in R2's finale...I'm seeing a pattern here...

Huh, I think totally differently. It started as fairly generic then it got interesting later on. In a way, I actually pity the Claw Man and his ideals. In a twisted way, he's COMPLETELY RIGHT. Humanity may as well purge itself before restarting. It's incredibly twisted but you can't say there isn't any logic in there. Same for Michael. In a weird way, I think the Britannian Emperor is of the same vein.

Surely, I think they really couldn't do a very unconventional ending since the entire thing seemed derived of other Western style revenge anime like Trigun.

Originally Posted by ashlay

the "reboot" thing is a standard in all the shows Taniguchi's directed: build a protagonist up, cut him down to nothing, build him back up to the highest of heights from there. This is just a halfway point thing, and the story really is just one continuous set of events, a reboot would have happened regardless of this being a second season or not. only the level of references would have changed.

And Gun x Sword was a show that was about robot anime cliches, how the heck does it find it's way back to being cliche when that's exactly what it was in the first place? >_>

You're making this pattern on your own. Though hey, if you don't like what happened in the ending arcs of S-cry-ed, PlanetES, Infinite Ryvius and GxS, you've been given fair warning. That's just the kind of stuff him and his staff makes 'em, though I don't particular think of them as failing in any way myself. 0_o

Agreed. Especially in shows like those, including Planetes, the action and drama keeps intensifying, you just HAVE to go down to Earth sometime. I think that's just a natural progression of things and I do agree it worked well as far as Goro is concerned.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Now ep 2 definatley made up for it a bit, but still reboot episodes like in R2 basically tell the audience all the angst, intensity, and spirit they put into last season is a balled-up piece of trash to us now...

Not entirely sure about that. I mean, if you kept Lelouch and Suzaku on a warpath 24/7 since the end of R1, there just isn't much of a mystery to go on nor do their characters really get much of a chance to prove themselves on a personal front IMO. I think it's actually brilliant that Lelouch (and maybe even Suzaku!) could have more interpersonal action than constantly going into a war all the time with the same insane intensity of the first season. Also, technically the rebellion did fall through so it doesn't really make sense that the Black Knights would just pick it all up and restart instantly.

As for Gun X Sword I could argue you to the pits of haiti on that front because I disagree with the assertion it started off as just a cliche' of a cliche' but honestly I don't wanna stink up the Suzaku thread with that type of off-topicness...

I wouldn't say GxS was really as cliche as every critic made out to be from start to finish. Of course, only other than that its plot progression very closely mirrors Trigun anime.

As for Suzaku, I hope he isn't the baine that once again cheapens the ending of one of this staff's stories...So I do hope you're wrong when you say that's a calling-card that I should expect at the end of R2 aswell (Which coincidentally enuff contradicts your point about me making up a pattern when you just made my point for me)

Suzaku definitely has to be one of the most whimsical and out of control characters directly due to his personal conflicts, so I don't think that is likely. Though I just hope they don't make it too cliche and make him die for Lelouch's cause in the end or something. Because I can totally see something like that happen if he sees the rebellion actually succeeding.

[Nightengale]

uzaku.

Spoiler:

[Marioshinobi]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

uzaku.

Spoiler:

Charm? More like Hax and Fail.

Also why're you guys talking about other characters? xD

I know Taniguchi made them and everything, comparing and such. But..you can get a comparison to any character in any anime somehow. Hell Sasuke and Suzaku are similar, block out everything they hear and want to get to a desired Goal/Wish because of a certain Dad/Brother who's currently dead(spoilers :P)

Anyway, get off Gun x Sword...and start talking about the White Grim Reaper :3

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Marioshinobi

Charm? More like Hax and Fail.

Also why're you guys talking about other characters? xD

I know Taniguchi made them and everything, comparing and such. But..you can get a comparison to any character in any anime somehow. Hell Sasuke and Suzaku are similar, block out everything they hear and want to get to a desired Goal/Wish because of a certain Dad/Brother who's currently dead(spoilers :P)

Anyway, get off Gun x Sword...and start talking about the White Grim Reaper :3

ah, but Suzaku was born from the character of Michael, (though he's far surpassed his prototype) so it's not that off topic to side bar into Gun x Sword for a bit.

[Dann of Thursday]

Also, apparently some called Sakurai (Suzaku's VA) "Claw Man" for fun in reference.

[War_Lord]

I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes Suzaku. I mean he's a pretty good guy. He speaks his mind, doesn't act deceitful around others, looks at things in an anti black/white perspective. Or rather, he at least makes an attempt to look at things from a broad perspective. He's a humanist in which he doesn't base his decisions on national or racial pride. He doesn't just want peace for his people, he wants peace for everyone. And that's what turns me off about Lelouch. Don't get me wrong though, I like him just as much as Suzaku, I just think that they both have qualities about themselves that the other needs. The thing that turns me off the most about Suzaku is the fact that he tries to accomplish things on his own. But I guess that comes with the package seeing as he lacks leadership skills.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I mean he's a pretty good guy. He speaks his mind, doesn't act deceitful around others, looks at things in an anti black/white perspective. Or rather, he at least makes an attempt to look at things from a broad perspective. He's a humanist in which he doesn't base his decisions on national or racial pride. He doesn't just want peace for his people, he wants peace for everyone.

Don't get me wrong.....I LOVE Suzaku....But this is too much....even for me >__________<

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes Suzaku. I mean he's a pretty good guy. He speaks his mind, doesn't act deceitful around others, looks at things in an anti black/white perspective. Or rather, he at least makes an attempt to look at things from a broad perspective. He's a humanist in which he doesn't base his decisions on national or racial pride. He doesn't just want peace for his people, he wants peace for everyone. And that's what turns me off about Lelouch. Don't get me wrong though, I like him just as much as Suzaku, I just think that they both have qualities about themselves that the other needs. The thing that turns me off the most about Suzaku is the fact that he tries to accomplish things on his own. But I guess that comes with the package seeing as he lacks leadership skills.

Trust me you aren't the only, but you are among a small percentage that I am not a part of. I'm not going to try to convince Suzaku fans to not be fans, but if they try to say Suzaku isn't a hypocrite is where I will disagree and say you clearly haven't seen season 1. If Lelouch is evil for his sister, then Suzaku is a hypocrite to change things from within Britannia. That's kind of a simplistic comparison, but I don't really feel like writing a detailed one again.

[War_Lord]

I'm not claiming he isn't a hypocrite, but that's hardly a reason to hate him since Lulu is just as much a hypocrite.

Lulu feels he needs to become evil in order to defeat evil. However, by doing that he isn't defeating evil, he's merely replacing it. All of these events up to this point has desensitized him to no return. I have a feeling he'll be just like the ruler when this is over. That's assuming he lives through this war. He can't fight for shit...

[Dann of Thursday]

Um, Lelouch isn't desensitized to no return. Far from it. In fact, every comment from the director indicates a completely different scenario than the one you suggest.

Suzaku may not be all bad, but all his talk about helping people in season 1 was all just a front so he could make himself feel good about having killed his father.

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I'm not claiming he isn't a hypocrite, but that's hardly a reason to hate him since Lulu is just as much a hypocrite.

Lulu feels he needs to become evil in order to defeat evil. However, by doing that he isn't defeating evil, he's merely replacing it. All of these events up to this point has desensitized him to no return. I have a feeling he'll be just like the ruler when this is over. That's assuming he lives through this war. He can't fight for shit...

I think he's on the way to becoming desensitized, but the fact that he feels guilt over his friends having their memories screwed in episode R2 03 shows he's not there yet, but yeah those related to the taking or replacing of Nunnally show the monster Lelouch can be, but this is really more a conversation for the Lelouch character thread.

On the other side I'm interested to see how ruthless Suzaku has become, and if he will do anything hypocritical in the second season. Selling out his friend was in the first season, so we'll wait and see.

[War_Lord]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Suzaku may not be all bad, but all his talk about helping people in season 1 was all just a front so he could make himself feel good about having killed his father.

It's better than going the emo route by constantly putting blame on himself and not doing anything to make amends. But despite that, there's no real evidence to show that he doesn't really beleive what he says about wanting to help people.

On the other side I'm interested to see how ruthless Suzaku has become, and if he will do anything hypocritical in the second season. Selling out his friend was in the first season, so we'll wait and see.

He did what he had to do. More power to him, lol.

[Dann of Thursday]

Actually, there was plenty of evidence through things like the last picture book, though one has to really listen to his words to understand. Taniguchi also pretty much said that he didn't really believe much in what he says.

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

He did what he had to do. More power to him, lol.

That motto will make you a Lelouch fan, not a Suzaku fan.

[Lestaki]

Selling out his friend was in the first season, so we'll wait and see.

Just a quickie, but really? This was ironic when Lulu said it, but somewhat silly when fans say it. As far as Suzaku is concerned, Lulu = ! friend, though he'll throw the friendship line back at Lulu from time to time. I think that was clear from the moment he refused to help Lulu over Nunnally, but was set in stone ever since he learned that it was Lulu who caused the Euphemia thing.

Selling out your friend for your goals is cold. Selling out the guy you sincerely believe destroyed your lover in every concievable way is smart business practise. In fact, it shows that despite his words in 23 he's not so revenge-mad as to forget his own goals. Now, how legitimate those goals are is another question.

As far as I'm concerned, Suzaku and Lulu have settled their accounts. From ep 23 on out, they're enemies with some dubious rherotic.

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, those two are really at this point nothing more than enemies plain and simple. I don't think Suzaku would hesitate to kill Lelouch the moment he finds out Lelouch is Zero, except maybe if they did need to get C.C.. I'm not sure what Lelouch might do though at this point he would probably be the same way.

[War_Lord]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

That motto will make you a Lelouch fan, not a Suzaku fan.

I am a Lelouch fan, I'm just more supportive of Suzaku since he seems to need it.

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I am a Lelouch fan, I'm just more supportive of Suzaku since he seems to need it.

So true. I haven't seen someone this hated in a long time.