[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Or did she? Metal Jaw Maria.

Well Maria certainly has no reason to leave the island since she loves Beatrice and Rosa is simply a bitch, the rest is pretty obvious as far as i'm concerned.

[AuraTwilight]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Well Maria certainly has no reason to leave the island since she loves Beatrice and Rosa is simply a bitch, the rest is pretty obvious as far as i'm concerned.

Except Rosa is her mother, who she loves unconditionally.

What reason does she have to leave the island? IT WAS EXPLODING.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Except Rosa is her mother, who she loves unconditionally.

What reason does she have to leave the island? IT WAS EXPLODING.

Uuuu, Uuuu! But Beatrice! But Beatrice will save us all with magic! We will all go to the golden Land together, Uuuuu!....

...is what Maria would possibly say.

[AuraTwilight]

"Beatrice already did that, she conjured up this tunnel to the Golden Land."

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

"Beatrice already did that, she conjured up this tunnel to the Golden Land."

Heh, it really is true... the "golden land" was at least once shown as the kuwadorian garden.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Heh, it really is true... the "golden land" was at least once shown as the kuwadorian garden.

They are, in fact, the exact same place as the 1967 segments, just with the purple filter overlaying them.

It doesn't hurt that Kinzo's epitaph solution more or less describes the route as the way to the Golden Land... which sort of means wherever that set of directions takes you is the Golden Land.

[Oroboro]

Dunno if anyone else has shared this already, but apparently Ryukushi has been answering questions "in-character" on Twitter. Nothing ground breaking, but mildly amusing nonetheless. https://twitter.com/07th_official

Some translations (Not by me.)

on wanting yasu to be happy:

“Ryukishi: I think for that her, who lived for love, at the moment that was fulfilled, her life was fully completed. That’s why to preserve that feeling perfectly for eternity, so that no one could destroy it, she just wanted to quickly seal herself in the catbox.”

on what kind of food battler likes/dislikes:

“Ange: Onii-chan isn’t really picky. He likes his coffee black, of course. However, espresso is better. …by the way, Amakusa, why is my espresso this small? You drank mine, didn’t you.”

on battler’s favorite sport:

“Battler: My favorite sport is probably dodgeball. If there’d been a club for it, I totally would have joined. But hey, my hands are still in pursuit of certain spherical objects even now! Ihihi! Chasing these balls is fine even if I get hit in the face!”

how does lion get to school?

“Lion: Don’t worry. Even in elementary school, I rode myself to school. Really, the worrisome one is Will. That person is seriously useless at anything other than mystery. Listen, yesterday I asked him to take care of the laundry, and what do you think he did?! Honestly, he’s ridiculous…”

what subjects are tough for lion at school?

“Lion: I like most subjects, but probably the one I like least is English. It seems my pronunciation is too native - my classmates laughed at me, which was a little uncomfortable. I’m also skilled at cooking. Gender equality, after all. I think that regardless of gender, one should be able to stand in the kitchen.”


“Oh, Black Will! I think when he became an inquisitor he was pretty dark. A very harsh kid, definitely. I meant to write a short story with Will as the main character, when he was a rookie, but I shelved it. Umineko is a work that uses so much strength you can really only write it once in a lifetime.”

“Because of Bern’s personality, during the dark period of Will’s life, he was her favorite sort of “ruthless detective” type. But I think she was disappointed that he softened as he came close to retirement. She was looking forward to his old activities in EP 7… or some such.”

“Lion is intelligent, but hard-headed. Due to that, he’s really an ideal partner. By the way, I’m also quite curious as to how he can pinch people with his pointer and middle fingers.”

“I was surprised there was so much interest in talking about Will yesterday! So here’s one story with Will. Initially, at the end of EP 7, he was going to be consumed by the cats to let Lion escape. And then in EP 8, he appears as Bern’s piece, Black Will! …I had that sort of idea, but then Battler’s role would have been eaten.”

“I wanted to write about Battler and Shannon’s relationship with more care… as Umineko ended, that’s something that I regretted a bit. But that there are people who give a lot of thought to their relationship is something that both Yasu and I are very happy about.”

[AuraTwilight]

on wanting yasu to be happy:

“Ryukishi: I think for that her, who lived for love, at the moment that was fulfilled, her life was fully completed. That’s why to preserve that feeling perfectly for eternity, so that no one could destroy it, she just wanted to quickly seal herself in the catbox.”

What the hell is wrong with this man?

on battler’s favorite sport:

“Battler: My favorite sport is probably dodgeball. If there’d been a club for it, I totally would have joined. But hey, my hands are still in pursuit of certain spherical objects even now! Ihihi! Chasing these balls is fine even if I get hit in the face!”

Battler is gay: Confirmed.

what subjects are tough for lion at school?

“Lion: I like most subjects, but probably the one I like least is English. It seems my pronunciation is too native - my classmates laughed at me, which was a little uncomfortable. I’m also skilled at cooking. Gender equality, after all. I think that regardless of gender, one should be able to stand in the kitchen.”

Lion is a dude: Confirmed.

“I was surprised there was so much interest in talking about Will yesterday! So here’s one story with Will. Initially, at the end of EP 7, he was going to be consumed by the cats to let Lion escape. And then in EP 8, he appears as Bern’s piece, Black Will! …I had that sort of idea, but then Battler’s role would have been eaten.”

Damn yo how come all the Black pieces have to be evil and shit? That's racist.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Lion is a dude: Confirmed.

I knew it!
Actually that's rather conclusive, isn't it?

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, there's like...no possible "Lion is a girl" room in there.

[Thunder Book]

If Bern had won against Battler and co., Black Will would have probably been the

Spoiler:

Fresh Prince of the Golden Land.

A couple of witches were up to no good! Makin' trouble in neighborhood!

[GoldenLand]

If anyone has further translations of any other snippets or is willing to translate them, you've got a captive audience here!

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

What the hell is wrong with this man?

I don't know, but I intend to pretend that that specific attitude of his has nothing to do with Umineko canon. I can dream, can't I?

Aaaaaah I hope that forgery writers will abandon hope of canon compliance in regard to what will make Yasu happy. I really do. In this matter, I can have confidence that the fans can find better ways to deal with the story than the actual author.

But in any case...doesn't that statement of his rather imply that Yasu really was the culprit, or that she at the very least intended to kill herself and blow up the island? Damn it, Ryukishi.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Lion is a dude: Confirmed.

I really liked the way that the matter was unconfirmed before, even though an educated guess would already have said that Lion's a guy. It was fun having a character of ambiguous, unknown gender around.

[Drifloon]

“I wanted to write about Battler and Shannon’s relationship with more care… as Umineko ended, that’s something that I regretted a bit. But that there are people who give a lot of thought to their relationship is something that both Yasu and I are very happy about.”

This is kind of cute actually.

I am completely unsurprised by Lion being a guy, but I am sort of surprised he actually confirmed it.

But in any case...doesn't that statement of his rather imply that Yasu really was the culprit, or that she at the very least intended to kill herself and blow up the island? Damn it, Ryukishi.

To be fair, there were already plenty of interview quotes that implied those things. People just tend to conveniently ignore them.

[jjblue1]

THANK YOU A LOT FOR THE TRANSLATION!

on wanting yasu to be happy:

“Ryukishi: I think for that her, who lived for love, at the moment that was fulfilled, her life was fully completed. That’s why to preserve that feeling perfectly for eternity, so that no one could destroy it, she just wanted to quickly seal herself in the catbox.”

Because, of course, trying to live with Battler would completely make him understand she was underserving of his love and make him take it back.

Really I hope this 'sealing' is some sort of metaphor to say she erased her old self or something because I stay my case, if she killed herself just for that then it's stupid. But well, if Yasu really went through with her game just to make Battler remember she had already proved she's not the sharpest pencil in the box... and considering how many murders she did in cold blood I don't really feel like pitying her.

Originally Posted by Drifloon

This is kind of cute actually.

I am completely unsurprised by Lion being a guy, but I am sort of surprised he actually confirmed it.

Well, in a way the manga also confirmed him making Lion much taller than Beato (Beato has to look up at him). If they were two girls there was no need to make such a marked height difference as Beato isn't even short for being a girl. Generally when such a marked height difference happens and it isn't even needed (Lion could have been represented of her same height) is because one of the two is a guy.

On a sidenote I'm pretty disgusted by Genji and Co's behaviour in all this.

Originally Posted by Drifloon

To be fair, there were already plenty of interview quotes that implied those things. People just tend to conveniently ignore them.

Well, the quote said just that her love was confirmed and that, once it did, she wanted to seal herself in the catbox.

Her love could have been confirmed without her having to kill anyone but with the murders happening anyway. That quote seems to be a reference to Ep 8 ending in which, according to Battler, Beato didn't kill anyone. I don't really find this as conclusive evidence though I believe Yasu was definitely up on something and, although I'm not sure she pushed the trigger, she might have been a fundamental factor in others pushing it.

[Oroboro]

“Ryukishi: I think for that her, who lived for love, at the moment that was fulfilled, her life was fully completed. That’s why to preserve that feeling perfectly for eternity, so that no one could destroy it, she just wanted to quickly seal herself in the catbox.”

This kind of attitude was almost explicitly spelled out in EP2, when Shannon declares that once she accepted George's ring, it was the same thing as actually getting married, and then proceeds to seal that moment away in a closed room.

[battle22]

We pretty much knew that Lion was a guy. However I have been thinking something like this recently. What if the gender was indeterminable?
(It's a scientific fact that sometimes a child of incest is not healthy.)
Perhaps there was another reason on why Natsuhi didn't want to accept the child? Maybe she thought it was a freak.
'It's not my child' + 'it's a freak' could make her think of murdering the baby.
So let's say Lion assumed he was a boy. While Yasu was raised as a girl.
As for why Lion was raised as a boy, for Kinzo that would be more...acceptable, since we know that the dude is sexist Anyway, is there any holes in this?

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by Drifloon

To be fair, there were already plenty of interview quotes that implied those things. People just tend to conveniently ignore them.

The more he says it, the more sure it is that that's what he really intended for the characters and isn't just him going off on a weird tangent.

On the other hand, JJ has a point in that even if Ryukishi keeps confirming the details about what Yasu wanted to do ASAP once her love was confirmed, it doesn't automatically mean that she had to be the culprit.

Originally Posted by Oroboro

This kind of attitude was almost explicitly spelled out in EP2, when Shannon declares that once she accepted George's ring, it was the same thing as actually getting married, and then proceeds to seal that moment away in a closed room.

...Although this sort of thing happening in the series itself doesn't help.

Given that Ryukishi is apparently telling us that Yasu had no real hope for the future besides getting her love confirmed and then getting sealed dead in a catbox right after, it really, really sucks that we were never shown the process of the vital few years where she reached that point. It's hard to guess whether she was planning to just off herself or just blow up everyone.

One thing in favour of the much-criticised Ikuko theory is that those few years could have been held back because they could show that in fact Yasu wasn't that evil and/or hopeless and was sensibly planning a new life elsewhere. (Cons: the situation with Battler/Tohya later on is arguably on the evil side, unless perhaps Battler was the culprit.)

[GreyZone]

Isn't it possible that Yasu/Lion was hermaphrodite from birth? In that case Lion's "being male" could easily be explained by Kinzo wanting a male successor.
Well, of course it is also possible that Lion was born male and/or Yasu was not the kid that fell from the cliff, but just a random adpopted child X.
So, in my opinion, nothing was really "confirmed" about Lion being male. What however was confirmed, is that in public Lion was considered a male.

But technically Lion is just a spin-off character or even an alternate universe character anyway so it doesn't really matter much, as long as we are not 100% sure that Lion = "Yasu that did not fall from the cliff".

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Isn't it possible that Yasu/Lion was hermaphrodite from birth? In that case Lion's "being male" could easily be explained by Kinzo wanting a male successor.
Well, of course it is also possible that Lion was born male and/or Yasu was not the kid that fell from the cliff, but just a random adpopted child X.
So, in my opinion, nothing was really "confirmed" about Lion being male. What however was confirmed, is that in public Lion was considered a male.

But technically Lion is just a spin-off character or even an alternate universe character anyway so it doesn't really matter much, as long as we are not 100% sure that Lion = "Yasu that did not fall from the cliff".

I've considered Yasu could have been something similar to Sadako from the Ring (the Ring should be pretty popular in Japan) and have been an intersex infant.
While this would explain why Ryukishi didn't want to explain it, as it's way more complicate than saying Yasu's reproductive organs got damaged by a fall and would make Genji and Co look marginally better (they hadn't just switched the sex of a person, they just had chosen to give Yasu the opposite sex of the one Kinzo's chosen between the 2 available for Yasu), Yasu seems to insist it was a would that damaged him/her.
So, either she was feed with lies AGAIN or the would she likely got due to her fall had some relevance in her body being unable to love.

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

What however was confirmed, is that in public Lion was considered a male.

Good point. That snippet from Ryukishi also seemed to indicate that Lion personally identified as a man as well as being one in public.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I've considered Yasu could have been something similar to Sadako from the Ring (the Ring should be pretty popular in Japan) and have been an intersex infant.

That actually is plausible. Lion would be a kid who had been accepted by Natsuhi and probably brought up as a man (I can't see the Ushiromiyas being the type to not assign a gender to the baby), with Yasu being the one it was more convenient to bring up as a woman. There could even have been some surgical intervention, if it was necessary. And like you said, Yasu might still have received injuries from a fall.

If is the case that he was intersex, it's possible that Lion had been aware of his condition for a fairly long time.