2008-05-09, 00:24 | Link #441 |
Hina is my goddess
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I agree. However when the popular vote is not taken into consideration at all you run the risk of overly misrepresentation of the public. I'd like to see a style where for instant 80% of the electoral vote is divided the traditional way, and 20% is split based on popular vote. Anyways i think we're getting a little off topic.
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2008-05-09, 02:18 | Link #442 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Proportional allocation has its own problems too, however they are a different monster entirely. There are numerous referendums and movements to remove the per-state winner takes all system at the presidential level. The most popular of such is one that allocates electors according to the popular vote. Another system that is being considered is the one currently in use in Maine and Nebraska where all the senate electoral votes are given to the winner of the state and the rest are given to the winner of the various congressional districts. |
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2008-05-09, 14:22 | Link #444 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Age: 35
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You're confused because of the way states are awarded electoral college votes. The number of electoral college votes a state has is equal it's number of Senators (always 2) plus it's number of Representatives (at least 1), so every state has at least 3 electoral college votes. Most states (all but two) award all their electoral college votes to the candidate that receives the most votes (not necessarily a majority of votes). Maine does it differently. Maine has a total of four electoral college votes. Two of them (the two representative of Maine's two Senators) are awarded to whoever gets the most votes, like in almost every other state. The remaining two electoral college votes (representative of Maine's two Representatives) are awarded individually to whoever receives the most votes in each House of Representatives district. For example, if candidate A receives 51% of every vote cast in Maine, then A would receive 2 electoral college votes (representative of the Senators). But if candidate B receives 53% of the vote within one district, then B would receive that district's electoral college vote. Candidate A of course would have to have won the other district (to have won the state overall) and would thus receive a total of 3 electoral college votes to B's 1. This is assuming there were only two candidates. |
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2008-05-09, 14:43 | Link #445 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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The thing about American politics is that the Founding Fathers, design the government for gridlock and set up the electoral college system so that the Most popular person might not win the presidency. Washing, jefferson, Adams and the bunch wanted representive government but they also fear mob rule. Their compromise was the electoral college. And the government was design so that the Majority doesn't always rule.
As someone said Democracy is where 51% of people take away the rights of the other 49%. That is why USA is a Republic NOT a true Democracy.
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2008-05-09, 15:03 | Link #446 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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2008-05-09, 15:09 | Link #447 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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I have always wondered, why don't the primaries come in groups of 10. Specifically, why are there not 5 Super Tuesdays in which 10 states (and the various other places (Guam etc.) mixed in) are voting at one time (so, the first election day would have 10 state primaries/caucases then the second election day would have the next 10 and so on until there is a winner.) Is it to much of a hasel to do it this way, or does the media prefer another way, etc ?
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2008-05-09, 15:15 | Link #448 | |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
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"What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." And I still don't get why Clinton is running, she basically has near zero chance of winning and at this rate Democrat are going to lose this race and I really don't want Republican to be a president.
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2008-05-09, 15:18 | Link #449 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2008-05-09, 15:42 | Link #450 | |
Dancing with the Sky
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I know that Georgia, SC, NC (?) may turn into Blue states because some of the new voters there. Georgia and NC is very important since they are part of the Big 12 and produce 30 votes between both of them. Those 30 votes can be big for Obama if he wins there and also if he wins Missouri will be big as well.
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2008-05-09, 18:02 | Link #451 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Age: 35
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Allowing four primaries/caucuses to vote before the official starting date makes it easier for an underdog to rise up. They don't have to spend millions on TV commercials trying to reach tens of millions of people. Instead they can go around a few small states making a name for themselves like Obama and Huckabee did. Obama did very well in the contests right after Super Tuesday when at most three states were voting at once. He could concentrate his campaigning on one or a few states at a time, going in and completely tearing apart Clinton's huge leads in polls. People had known and liked Clinton just because of who her husband is, but it's a lot better when primaries are decided by actual campaigning instead of name recognition and TV ads (which are more influential in big states and Super Tuesdays). Many of the states that Clinton won on Super Tuesday would've surely gone for Obama is they had voted later at separate times, allowing him to have a chance to campaign fully there. Last edited by Autumn Demon; 2008-05-09 at 20:13. |
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2008-05-09, 18:09 | Link #452 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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Or vice versa many of the state Obama won would go to Clinton at a later election date. People do change thier mind and some did after the wright affair.
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2008-05-09, 19:02 | Link #453 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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New Hampshire has it written into their state constitution that they will have the first primary in the nation by a week. It's a tradition thing for the state. The reason we don't have multiple Super Tuesdays is actually more likely because the DNC and RNC do not want it. It means a lot of unfocused campaigning between the events and probably would increase overall costs. Currently, they only need to focus on one or two states between primaries. For things like Super Tuesday, it becomes very difficult to pick and choose where to campaign. Also, Super Tuesday is technically a media and state's party invention. What happened with Super Tuesday was that in previous years, the primaries were decided very early on and thus the later states had pretty much no influence. So all these states decided to move their primaries back to the earliest allowed date, thus forming Super Tuesday. This is all trying to make it so that the state and the voters are important again. There are ideas to reform this system by having multiple block votes over a long period of time and/or a rotating block system which both in effect for multiple optimized Super Tuesdays. |
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2008-05-09, 20:31 | Link #454 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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for the primaries, i think the parties should just let the states decide when they want to go. If they all want to have a election on 1/1, let them. The MI and FL debacle is a result of the Dems trying to let certain states have more influence (NC and NV). Just let every state decide when they want to have thier election.
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2008-05-09, 21:17 | Link #456 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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Don't blame Clinton if Obama loses in the general. If Obama loses it is because he is a flaw candidate, like Kerry who allow himself to be swiftboat.
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2008-05-09, 21:17 | Link #457 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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I know how the electoral college , although the system that Maine/Nebraska uses was unknown to me until now. |
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2008-05-10, 01:06 | Link #458 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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The origin of all of this is the number of times that Clinton has suggested that her people vote for McCain if she does not win the nomination and the polls show a sizable number of her supporters will do exactly that. She has not actually said it, but has implied that McCain would make a better candidate than Obama on multiple topics. People are viewing it as an attempt to subconsciously ruin Obama since he is winning and make it so McCain wins while she gets another attempt in 2012. |
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2008-05-10, 01:54 | Link #459 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Sorry, but its a bit of self-denial and illogical NOT to consider her impact on the general election - whatever Repub supporters try on Obama should he be the Dem candidate. Historically, the Dems have done themselves in at least 3 times I can think of in the 20th Century with analogous primary campaigns -- the losing candidate did not help to shore up party support from their supporters after the primary.
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2008-05-10, 11:10 | Link #460 | |
This is a user title.
Fansubber
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 36
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I've been watching the democratic race off and on, and I can't believe it still hasn't been over yet. Hillary's chances of winning dropped off the radar when Obama made sweeping and crushing victories eleven times in a row. She clung on and what has happened? She won PA, lost Indiana by a large margin, and barely won NC. Now the super delegates are jumping ship. The Clinton campaign is done - I don't see any reason as to why she's staying in the race aside from pride and arrogance. At the beginning, I think everyone thought the democratic candidate would be Clinton.
Her campaign has already dealt enough damage to the Democratic party as a whole and she really should pull out before it gets worse. Her supporters generally are blind as well. I frequent both sides of the fence's forums and the Hillary forums have raves that I simply can't believe an intelligent being would say: Quote:
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debate, elections, politics, united_states |
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