AnimeSuki Forums

Jan-Poo · 2012-12-09, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

It's also interesting that they choose to show the flashback where Misa seems to easily beat Kai, when they were younger, at Kill Ballad at the start of the same episode Kai notices the Tagringer name. Or, at least what I presume is Kill Ballad. As I'm writing this edit, I'm wondering how old Frau is.

If she's around Kai's age, she was awfully young to be designing Kill Ballad if Kai and Misa were playing it in that flashback, but at the same time, Frau doesn't seem to go to school, so perhaps she's an older adult.

Where is that flashback exactly? I can't find it. At any rate in episode 8 Kaito says that Misa used to beat him at "Golden Wolf Fighter 4", so that's what they were playing back then. Kill Ballad couldn't possibly exist.

As for him being surprised seeing tagiringer in the leaderboard, that doesn't seem to make much sense to me. In the first episode he said he was 5th, and he is still 5th when we see tagiringer in 4th position. Either tagiringer has been there for a while, and then it's strange that Kaito never noticed that before, or he passed Kaito recently, but then it's strange that the one who was 4th previously was passed by Tagiringer and Kaito at the same time.

Iby · 2012-12-09, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

Why do I get the feeling that the results of the test will cause Aika to re-think her decision to turn down Nae's help?

Maybe because it was in preview?

creb · 2012-12-09, 14:45

^^

The release I (and presumably many others, based on the seed #s), watch has no previews. ;D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

As for him being surprised seeing tagiringer in the leaderboard, that doesn't seem to make much sense to me. In the first episode he said he was 5th, and he is still 5th when we see tagiringer in 4th position. Either tagiringer has been there for a while, and then it's strange that Kaito never noticed that before, or he passed Kaito recently, but then it's strange that the one who was 4th previously was passed by Tagiringer and Kaito at the same time.

Episode 4, dependent on what release you're watching, it's around 20:40 in. Right before he first encounters the AI.

Jan-Poo · 2012-12-09, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

Episode 4, dependent on what release you're watching, it's around 20:40 in. Right before he first encounters the AI.

No I know where that is (it's the part where Misa beats Kaito in a game that I can't find), but it still doesn't make sense for the reasons explained above.

creb · 2012-12-09, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

No I know where that is (it's the part where Misa beats Kaito in a game that I can't find), but it still doesn't make sense for the reasons explained above.

The very, very, very beginning of episode 4, before the OP starts and the rocket is launched.

As for it not making sense, I'm not sure what we're talking about.

I thought it was pretty clear he's surprised a little when he sees the name.

Jan-Poo · 2012-12-09, 19:33

As I explained before, he shouldn't be surprised to see who is in the 4th position. He already said he was 5th in the first episode, which means he saw the leaderboard before.
That could be possible if Tagiringer wasn't there before and only later managed to reach the 4th position, but in that case Kaito should have become 6th, and he is still 5th.

So the only two possibilities remaining are that 1) he always managed to miss the fact that tagiringer was right a step above him in the leaderboard until that point. 2) The one who was originally 4th got passed by Kaito and Tagiringer simultaneously.
Both options are a bit strange.

Snuffle · 2012-12-09, 23:04

The giant robo failing to operate as hoped was so painfully embarrassing to watch that I had to skim it.

This show needs more Airi.

It's also surprising that Frau doesn't have more interest in her.

rocket · 2012-12-10, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

To troll the audience. If you have seen the previous two works the last thing you would expect is that conspiracy theories are just myths.
Naturally I don't consider that very likely, and it would be very bad, but there are a few things that prevent me from completely dismissing this idea.

So far this anime seems to take pleasure in building up anti-climaxes. Think of how a previous episode ended with Aki saying "We're going to ask help from JAXA!" Wow, exciting, isn't it? But then you realize she was just going to talk ot her dad. Then you get MIB kidnapping the whole club and you thought: "Wow this is getting serious!" Nope that's still Aki's father using Nae to help her daughter. That whole kidnapping charade was completely pointless.

There are then the Kimijima reports that barely make any sense. Is there a point in that scavenger hunt? If Kimijima wanted the truth to be known, he should have sent his files to newspapers all around the world. If there was a specific person that he wanted to send his files to, why the scavenger hunt? Airi gave to kaito the password for the first level, which means she recognized him somehow, why not giving him the reports directly at that point?

This whole thing looks like a giant prank.

Granted the anemone incident still must have happened, and Kaito and Akiho do have a condition, but the Kimijima reports could be just noise or a red herring.

Exactly. So far this show trolls us hard with every Giant Robot action show plot line or convention, from the cinematography to the actual plot.

And it would be quite an achievement for a sci-fi story to show that these tropes and dramatic structures do work without the need for ridiculous science fantasy. Not to mention quite in keeping with the ultimate theme of the trilogy which is showing a more serious science fiction in anime than is typical.

Of course I bet it would be hella unpopular if true.

Midonin · 2012-12-10, 12:04

Does every show need to be a commentary or soaked in irony in order for it to be effective? Yes, the science fantasy aspect of many super robot shows is "ridiculous", but that's what makes them fun. Taking ridiculous things seriously is why I got into anime in the first place.

Dop · 2012-12-10, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffle

This show needs more Airi.

It's also surprising that Frau doesn't have more interest in her.

I'd sooner have Airi than Siri...

The Genshiken quote when Airi met Frau did amuse me mightily, though.

creb · 2012-12-10, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

As I explained before, he shouldn't be surprised to see who is in the 4th position.

Except, he clearly was surprised at seeing the name of the fourth place player. The question is why.

Jan-Poo · 2012-12-10, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

Except, he clearly was surprised at seeing the name of the fourth place player. The question is why.

Except I'm not saying that he doesn't look surprised, the problem is that logically he shouldn't.
I guess that from the beginning you thought I was saying that you were wrong, but I really didn't mean that.

creb · 2012-12-11, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Except I'm not saying that he doesn't look surprised, the problem is that logically he shouldn't.
I guess that from the beginning you thought I was saying that you were wrong, but I really didn't mean that.

Ah. Ok.

It'd only be logical if we assumed that was the same person who'd always been in fourth place, something we have no evidence of (the first time we see the list is when he is surprised at the name in Episode 4).

It's far more logical to assume it's a new person in fourth place. And, it's fairly obvious he knows who the person is, after his quick defense against their being called a cheater, and while it's taking a leap, we have seen someone who's apparently quite good at fighting games, and who's sudden appearance on the list could be capable of eliciting reactions from the rather stoic Kai.

Of course, it could be a character we've yet to see (at this point, we've seen everyone in the OP, I believe-which obviously doesn't necessarily mean anything, but...). But, if it is a character we've seen, there aren't any better suspects, imo, than Misa. Though, the more I stew over it, the less I can think of a good reason for why she'd suddenly start playing Kill-Ballad.

Gohan78 · 2012-12-11, 08:58

I liked that they went with a realistic approach to the giant robot. That thing is so massive that there is no way it could walk properly with our current technology. Still it was heartbreaking to see the reaction of the audience.

Damn spoiled brats!!

BTW the S;G version of Gundam is "Mobile Jacket Gunbam". Gunvarrel is more a Super than a Real. The hotblooded pilot shouting the name of the final move ("Gunvarrel Ankh Striker!") is reminiscent of the good old giant robots of the 70s.

Witheirate · 2012-12-11, 17:27

Did you mean this scene in Episode 4:

Let see... here Tagiringer, taken from episode 3, the night before Robo-One competition.

(the username is above the yellow HP bar).

Jan-Poo · 2012-12-11, 19:54

Nicely spotted, so well this confirms that Kaito has met Tagiringer in the virtual battlefield at least once, and probably even more often.

Quote:

It's far more logical to assume it's a new person in fourth place.

You keep ignoring my point that if someone passed Kaito, Kaito would have gone from 5th to 6th. To work you need to think that both Tagiringer and Kaito passed the one who was originally 4th nearly at the same time.

As to who Tagiringer may be, Misa would be a perfect candidate if she didn't completely change from when she was younger. She doesn't seem the person that would spend her time playing. To be on the top of the leaderboard you probably need to play a lot. Kaito is 5th and he plays almost constantly.

I can say who is not Tagiringer however.

Frau: obviously, since she suspects Tagiringer of being a cheater, plus her nickname is Fraukoujiro.
Akiho: She apparently isn't good at Kill Ballad, and more importantly she is with Kaito when he is fighting Tagiringer.
Mitchie: See above.
Subaru: It took him 22 tries before he could beat Kaito. He is good but he wouldn't be 4th if he was so weaker than Kaito.

Well there's a chance that Kaito lied to Akiho and that Subaru beat him at the first try, we didn't actually see what happened. But why would Kaito lie about that?

creb · 2012-12-11, 22:39

Interesting catch on his having fought him/her before. Now I'm going through to see if we've seen any other interesting people on his game screen while fighting.

It's hard to say how the rankings work. If it's like how chess works, it's entirely possible to displace someone who's in fourth place, without whoever is in fifth place being knocked out of their rank. The problem with this is that Tagiringer also played Kai. Making that scenario far less likely, as it decreases the chances that Tagiringer's rating would be low enough after beating Kai to be able to jump as high as it would by beating someone in the top four.

Another explanation that might fit the sequence of events is that when Kai was playing Tagiringer in episode 3, Tagiringer was ranked higher than fourth. So, when Kai sees Tagiringer ranked fourth in episode four, it comes as a shock. Though that's kind of a weak explanation as well, since you'd think he'd be more surprised at whoever was now in Tagiringer's old spot.

As you pointed out, Jan, there aren't any good suspects among the younger characters. I'm still not sure how much of Misa's personality is a facade. What I am sure of is that it is a facade, to some extent. That comment of hers in episode 3 that seemed to concern the Committee was the closest thing to her real persona that we've seen so far, and that Misa most definitely didn't seem like the adult Misa we've seen throughout the rest of the series. As she was alone and speaking to herself, it's likely that one moment was the "real" Misa.

Also, Tagiringer is colored red and yellow, just like a certain robot Misa used to operate in real life.

Coincidence!? Ok, maybe it is....or maybe it isn't...

Arg. As I'm scanning through the previous episodes, I'm also noticing the Exoskeleton is actually a new product and just went on sale as stated by Misa on the TV in episode one. Yet, the shop keeper got hers 4? 5? years ago, which means hers must have been a beta/alpha product that Misa gave her. I wonder if that's suppose to mean something, while being fully aware it's entirely possible to read too much into things in a show like this. :/

Jan-Poo · 2012-12-12, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

Also, Tagiringer is colored red and yellow, just like a certain robot Misa used to operate in real life.

Coincidence!? Ok, maybe it is....or maybe it isn't...

There is another character from Misa's robitic club that probably operated the tanegashimachine. And I haven't excluded her yet.
Others characters that I didn't mention and that Kaito knows are Jun and Doc, but they aren't very likely.
Oh there's also Airi, but how that wouldn't be cheating? Plus you'd need to think that she told Kaito that she is Tagiringer off screen. BTW it's possible that the first 3 are AI. The fact that those are the only ones with a year attached is suspicious, at the very least they must be related. The other explanation is that they are other people affected by the anemone incident.

Kanon · 2012-12-13, 16:55

Spoiler for episode 10:

creb · 2012-12-13, 22:06

Ok, I throw what I've said about Tagiringer out the window. Kai doesn't know for sure who it is, but he thinks it's Misa.

This revelation certainly doesn't change my opinion that it's her though. It does mean Kai doesn't know for sure that Tagiringer isn't a cheater. He must have recognized the playstyle when he played Tag in episode 3, and since he has a history of being destroyed by Misa at fighting games, it's possible he's not the most objective determinant of whether this Tagiringer is a cheater or not. I also thought of a reason why Misa may be participating in Kill Ballad: to test out reaction times for whatever reasons her boss seemed so interested in Kai's reactions at the robot tournament.

As an aside, if we take a step back, the act of cheating wouldn't do much for the story, so let's just assume all four players ranked ahead of Kai don't cheat, and that the reason why they're so good has something to do with this conspiracy of population reduction, monopoles, solar flares, and...giant robots.

On that note, the science part of me is eye-rolling at how they decided to depict a monopole (lol), but it's a work of fiction, so let's just go with it and accept that as a monopole. I wonder who took it home.

Store-owner's reaction to Airi wasn't much of a surprise, after the way she reacted to Kai's telling her he'd seen her/Kimijima Reports. The question is why the animus. I'm guessing Airi is a part of why Misa abandoned the giant robot and moved to Tokyo, and maybe store-owner-girl resents Airi for that?

2012-12-09, 19:33	Link #726
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	As I explained before, he shouldn't be surprised to see who is in the 4th position. He already said he was 5th in the first episode, which means he saw the leaderboard before. That could be possible if Tagiringer wasn't there before and only later managed to reach the 4th position, but in that case Kaito should have become 6th, and he is still 5th. So the only two possibilities remaining are that 1) he always managed to miss the fact that tagiringer was right a step above him in the leaderboard until that point. 2) The one who was originally 4th got passed by Kaito and Tagiringer simultaneously. Both options are a bit strange. __________________

2012-12-11, 08:58	Link #734
Gohan78 Awakened One Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern Italy	I liked that they went with a realistic approach to the giant robot. That thing is so massive that there is no way it could walk properly with our current technology. Still it was heartbreaking to see the reaction of the audience. Damn spoiled brats!! BTW the S;G version of Gundam is "Mobile Jacket Gunbam". Gunvarrel is more a Super than a Real. The hotblooded pilot shouting the name of the final move ("Gunvarrel Ankh Striker!") is reminiscent of the good old giant robots of the 70s. __________________ Tibi, magnum Innominandum, signa stellarum nigrarum et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim. (De Vermis Mysteriis)

2012-12-11, 17:27	Link #735
Witheirate Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Wichita	Did you mean this scene in Episode 4: Let see... here Tagiringer, taken from episode 3, the night before Robo-One competition. (the username is above the yellow HP bar). __________________

2012-12-11, 22:39	Link #737
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	Interesting catch on his having fought him/her before. Now I'm going through to see if we've seen any other interesting people on his game screen while fighting. It's hard to say how the rankings work. If it's like how chess works, it's entirely possible to displace someone who's in fourth place, without whoever is in fifth place being knocked out of their rank. The problem with this is that Tagiringer also played Kai. Making that scenario far less likely, as it decreases the chances that Tagiringer's rating would be low enough after beating Kai to be able to jump as high as it would by beating someone in the top four. Another explanation that might fit the sequence of events is that when Kai was playing Tagiringer in episode 3, Tagiringer was ranked higher than fourth. So, when Kai sees Tagiringer ranked fourth in episode four, it comes as a shock. Though that's kind of a weak explanation as well, since you'd think he'd be more surprised at whoever was now in Tagiringer's old spot. As you pointed out, Jan, there aren't any good suspects among the younger characters. I'm still not sure how much of Misa's personality is a facade. What I am sure of is that it is a facade, to some extent. That comment of hers in episode 3 that seemed to concern the Committee was the closest thing to her real persona that we've seen so far, and that Misa most definitely didn't seem like the adult Misa we've seen throughout the rest of the series. As she was alone and speaking to herself, it's likely that one moment was the "real" Misa. Also, Tagiringer is colored red and yellow, just like a certain robot Misa used to operate in real life. Coincidence!? Ok, maybe it is....or maybe it isn't... Arg. As I'm scanning through the previous episodes, I'm also noticing the Exoskeleton is actually a new product and just went on sale as stated by Misa on the TV in episode one. Yet, the shop keeper got hers 4? 5? years ago, which means hers must have been a beta/alpha product that Misa gave her. I wonder if that's suppose to mean something, while being fully aware it's entirely possible to read too much into things in a show like this. :/ __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake. Last edited by creb; 2012-12-11 at 23:47.

2012-12-13, 16:55	Link #739
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	Spoiler for episode 10: So moe~ Aki was even more awesome than usual in this episode. I love her energy. She's finally decided to give up on Gunpro-1 (for the time being) and accept Jaxa's help in building another robot. Subaru's new design is great, and Jun's idea was very clever. This new robot should be quite something. In other news, they discovered a monopole (that just fell from the sky), which strengthen the conspiracy theory. It's a extremely major discovery but they kind of forgot about it in the later half of the episode. I assume we'll go back to it later. PS: Frau bow cracks me up so much. She's truly the female counterpart to Daru. __________________ Last edited by Kanon; 2012-12-13 at 17:30. Reason: added spoiler tags

2012-12-09, 23:04	Link #727
Snuffle likes cute things Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Searching for more imoutos Age: 43	The giant robo failing to operate as hoped was so painfully embarrassing to watch that I had to skim it. This show needs more Airi. It's also surprising that Frau doesn't have more interest in her.

2012-12-10, 12:04	Link #729
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	Does every show need to be a commentary or soaked in irony in order for it to be effective? Yes, the science fantasy aspect of many super robot shows is "ridiculous", but that's what makes them fun. Taking ridiculous things seriously is why I got into anime in the first place.

2012-12-13, 22:06	Link #740
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	Ok, I throw what I've said about Tagiringer out the window. Kai doesn't know for sure who it is, but he thinks it's Misa. This revelation certainly doesn't change my opinion that it's her though. It does mean Kai doesn't know for sure that Tagiringer isn't a cheater. He must have recognized the playstyle when he played Tag in episode 3, and since he has a history of being destroyed by Misa at fighting games, it's possible he's not the most objective determinant of whether this Tagiringer is a cheater or not. I also thought of a reason why Misa may be participating in Kill Ballad: to test out reaction times for whatever reasons her boss seemed so interested in Kai's reactions at the robot tournament. As an aside, if we take a step back, the act of cheating wouldn't do much for the story, so let's just assume all four players ranked ahead of Kai don't cheat, and that the reason why they're so good has something to do with this conspiracy of population reduction, monopoles, solar flares, and...giant robots. On that note, the science part of me is eye-rolling at how they decided to depict a monopole (lol), but it's a work of fiction, so let's just go with it and accept that as a monopole. I wonder who took it home. Store-owner's reaction to Airi wasn't much of a surprise, after the way she reacted to Kai's telling her he'd seen her/Kimijima Reports. The question is why the animus. I'm guessing Airi is a part of why Misa abandoned the giant robot and moved to Tokyo, and maybe store-owner-girl resents Airi for that? __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake.