2012-12-15, 16:45 | Link #21 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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We will not make a poll, as the decision to retire the current system is final. But the potential for any future system to replace it is still very much in the open. I do think going through at least a time without a system so we can all experience first-hand the difference it makes (either positive or negative) can be a valuable learning experience.
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2012-12-15, 16:59 | Link #23 |
ゴリゴリ!
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Age: 32
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Back when I ran a forum of my own, we ran a "like" system that worked pretty darn well. I'll suggest it with some details, just so you may have something to work with.
Basically, each post comes with an icon that one can click like on (like with Facebook, but proper, as I'll explain). The user who liked the post would appear by username for the poster, and for others it shows the total number of likes from their side. From there, the posters could directly link to the user's visitor pages for further conversation, leaving the clutter in the threads at a minimum. Any disagreements are just carried out in replies on threads and VMs as always, which could always be reported if irresponsible. We didn't have this, but the number of likes someone has could be shown where the rep bar currently is, so people know who to turn to for a better understanding of the forum. People get rep for anything, but likes come from personal agreements in posts, so the people with more would more accurately be portrayed as the users who make the most populous-friendly posts (I don't exactly see people giving many for derailing and heavily derogatory posts). That's just a suggestion, since it worked well for us back then. Then again, the forum was only a fraction of the size of AS, so I can't speak for how it'd work. Just thought I'd plant the idea since the rep system will undeniably be removed and we'll be needing some kind of crowd control.
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2012-12-15, 17:46 | Link #24 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well personally I welcome this change, I've never been a fan of reputation systems, in any forum I've been.
In the end they do a lot less good than you think they would. This isn't even the first time for me that I see a forum admin removing the reputation system. Generally a reputation system is implemented with the idea to reward good behaviors and "punish" bad mannerism. In other words it's usually supposed to improve the quality of posting. However what it actually becomes in the end is a popularity contest. The problem lies on the assumption that the userbase will make an appropiate use of the reputation system, but that's hardly the case in my experience. So what a high score actually reflects is how much one is popular, which isn't the same thing as how much respectful of the rules and good mannered one is. One can easily get bad scores for saying things that are unpopular, but not necessarily wrong. And if one lets himself be affected by it, he might end up giving up speaking his own mind honestly when he knows that what he thinks is unpopular. That being said I always had the impression that in this forum negative reputation detracted a lot less points than whan positive reputation give. So I don't think negative reputation had that much impact, but I have noticed in a few occasions people taking it way worse than they should have, and that's not something positive. If you plan to reintroduce another system, I hope you'll keep this in consideration, but I am honestly very skeptical that you can make something completely devoid of problems. In the end the issue is not the system, but the people that use it, and they won't change.
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2012-12-15, 17:51 | Link #25 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: where magic is reality
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Hmmm..and there I was thinking how to raise my bar level
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But after all being said, I never realized that this will have a negative effect with many users being reckless. The staff's decision is well received for such case. Popularity does has its demerits |
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2012-12-15, 18:11 | Link #26 |
Good OP Hunter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Argentina
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Well this came out of the left field for me...
And I only recently hit a huge boost in my rep due to my writing T.T Oh well. If I had to propose a new system it'd be a per post rep. Every post can be voted down or up, and it'll have a color code to indicate (blue being neutral, red being bad, green being good. The more intense the color the more it was voted) Oh well, goodbye rep. Arty
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2012-12-15, 18:12 | Link #27 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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I'm not really sad to see the system go. I both like and disliked it. I liked the fact that you could give and receive feedback on your posts. What I didn't like was the anonymity. You are completely unable to reply or ask for clarification. I felt it would've been better if either
1) It's not anonymous 2) No comments at all, just + or -. |
2012-12-15, 18:18 | Link #28 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I mean look at what my user cp was like recently: Spoiler for for space:
----- That said, I don't care much for the reputation system and in reality I think doing away with it will do the forum some much needed good. Unfortunately not everyone can be as amazing as me is that willing to express their opinion if its not aligned with the vast majority of people because the threat of negative rep actively discourages them. We can tell them all we want how meaningless such a system is in the grander scheme of a forum, but people do seem to take those little colored dots to heart. Now I understand that people want to feel like they're being "rewarded" for their efforts in building a community around here and that their status as veterans will be revoked by this change, but frankly, I am just getting a pretty elitist vibe from some of the complaints in this thread. People want to be rewarded for posting on a forum like it is some sort of videogame? This is not the point of a forum, a forum is a place to host discussions. Discussions can happen whether you've been here since the inception of AS, or if you are a user who just registered today. You are freely able to express yourself no matter how old or new you are. The reward of building a community is that your contribution encourages others to contribute as well. If you encourage more people come out to talk and create interesting discussions, is that not a reward itself?
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2012-12-15, 18:29 | Link #29 |
On a mission
Author
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Aww, but I was this close to being in the high score board!
You will be missed rep system, even if you contributed nothing. It was a fun game though a bit imbalanced in favor of the givers. The problem is that you could neg someone, watch them complain in a hilarious fashion and then report said complain post which would no doubt waste the mods' time. But in a sense people could troll another twice with the press of a button. Although this is kinda funny, it's not exactly healthy. Personally I only used it for amusement, and never targeted anyone intentionally. But even so I found myself more likely to toss - or + towards some people, so I really would say it's hard to not have these intentions in mind. Also, it's extremely easy to farm rep and negs if you want really want to provoke such reactions. Still, certain posters do seem to have earned their rep through good posting and taking the challenge of not just writing pandering posts, and others umm, I'm just gonna stay silent. I wouldn't really mind a "thanks" system for individual posts instead but it would also cause cliques too where people arbitrarily increase each other's epeens and any appreciation can be reserved for direct contact. P.S. I pressed the button on most of the people on this thread before. Is that ok for me to say? PPS: In the end this is sorta like hostile in Diablo 2. A bit amusing, but too much use for griefers.
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2012-12-15, 18:50 | Link #31 |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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Excellent change. I won't say I'll never miss it, but it's needed to let it go, because of things like this:
Obviously, this won't hinder everyone from expressing their opinions. But it's stuff like this that discourages new members from posting more after they get their first neg rep, or something. I support a "thanks"/"like" system. And do away with the "you can't give rep to the same person unless you rep 10 other posts" thing. Also, this implies everyone has equal rep power, regardless of posts/join date. @Reckoner: I remember disagreeing with you on some point in a Railgun thread or something. I actually thought we had a nice discussion going without any need for neg rep, even if we mostly disagreed. You do have different viewpoints from the rest, but it's still an opinion and you give reasons why, instead of just saying "lol this anime sux" or some crap. But of course, neg rep = disagree in AS, so in my opinion it the system was a huge flaw.
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2012-12-15, 18:54 | Link #32 | |
On a mission
Author
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If it's in the open, there will be more restraint since they might actually care what other people think. Besides, I haven't been flamed by anyone worthy lately so it could be a nice change of pace. (Don't worry. It won't be a flame war. It will just be me holding up the paragons of honor and truth against those scum who would dare say mean things towards me.)
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2012-12-15, 18:56 | Link #33 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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It may sound silly that people want to have such a structure for recognition on a discussion forum, but doesn't it make sense? The forum has proven itself to be a community, rather than a bus terminal where people are only passing through. We have people who have been coming here for years, which is pretty dedicated. (If I may toot my own horn, I'm coming upon year 10, myself. Do I get cake when the day comes? (brightman already spoiled it for me, actually - no cake, no fanfare when your account hits its 10th year. Oh well.)) In the grand scheme of things it probably won't make much of a difference. People will lose a way to judge members by and may feel a bit disoriented for a bit, but they'll come up with other ways or just adapt to not having that information. I just wanted to convey what I perceive the upset is over. Specifically, I wanted to say that it isn't elitism.
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2012-12-15, 18:56 | Link #34 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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The problem that I have with a "thanks" system (that a few have mentioned) is that it seems to me to just encourage cliques and taking sides. Like let's say you're having a debate about a controversial anime (would totally never happen, I know...). I can just see someone making a "pro" post and having the usual crowd of "pro" supporters like/"thank" their post, and then someone else make an "anti" post and having the usual crowd of "anti" supporters like/"thank" their post. It's like an odd way of giving weight to someone else's argument, and it doesn't really have any correlation whatsoever to whether someone actually did something praiseworthy. It just means, "I agree with you and I want to take a stand".
In the end, I think you'd just be trading one problem for another.
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2012-12-15, 19:00 | Link #35 | |
On a mission
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2012-12-15, 19:00 | Link #36 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I was informed I should snap a pic of the members list ... I had no idea of my position.
I won't miss it. It had gotten to the point where people weren't bothering to give rep anyway and, of course, I "used my powers for evil" once but frankly, I mostly gave pos rep, saving the neg bomb for individuals that needed a lot more than just a trout slap. It WOULD be nice to have some way to paintball trolls though. As Syn says, there was *some* value. It'll be interesting to see what alternative systems come up for discussion.
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2012-12-15, 19:02 | Link #37 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Highly-polarized situations are exactly when this sort of system would work the least. It might work in a technical support or other part of the forum where people are trying to help each other out. But I think it won't work in anime discussion.
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2012-12-15, 19:04 | Link #38 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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But this is just a forum conversation. Having lots of experience in forum conversations isn't really that useful. A new poster can be just as insightful and contribute just as much as an old timer. If we were trying to offer some sort of service or knowledge to these people like in a business/academic setting, then looking towards our seniors would make more sense, but I do not think this applicable here. Why should we elevate people's status for simply having been around longer? In the end this is the only real notable contribution of the rep system IMO.
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2012-12-15, 19:11 | Link #39 | |
On a mission
Author
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If you're talking about labeling them, I guess it works a bit, but a troll post is sorta like porn-- you know it when you see it (and it's often bad) and you really don't need a label. Sometimes a bad poster will make good points too.
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2012-12-15, 19:18 | Link #40 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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(That's as much as I could fit on my screen for a snapshot; sorry to those who weren't included.) Quote:
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