[manga] what rank was luppi? is it possible to have new espada?

[ulquiorraftw]

after watching the recent episode, i was wondering what you think luppi's actual rank was because if he was really stronger than yammi, grantz, aaroneiro and whoever number 7 is, then the fact that grimmjaw ripped through his stomach means that the gaps in strength must be pretty drastic and that ichigo is screwed against noitorra. otherwise, im thinking that maybe luppi was weaker than a rank 6, maybe even a rank 11, but that aizen was too lazy to reorder the espada just for one new member who he might have intended to be killed by grimmjaw in the first place since aizen knew grimmjaw was going to have his arm healed by orihime.

which brings me to the point, what if aizen finds an arrancar who is strong enough to be an espada, will he reorder the espada or just leave it as is?

[User65554]

He would probably engineer a fight between the new arrancar and an existing espanda he doesn't like/sees as weak, with the intention that the new arrancar would kill the old espanda and take his place.

As for Luppi...I'm not sure.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by ulquiorraftw

after watching the recent episode, i was wondering what you think luppi's actual rank was because if he was really stronger than yammi, grantz, aaroneiro and whoever number 7 is, then the fact that grimmjaw ripped through his stomach means that the gaps in strength must be pretty drastic and that ichigo is screwed against noitorra. otherwise, im thinking that maybe luppi was weaker than a rank 6, maybe even a rank 11, but that aizen was too lazy to reorder the espada just for one new member who he might have intended to be killed by grimmjaw in the first place since aizen knew grimmjaw was going to have his arm healed by orihime.

which brings me to the point, what if aizen finds an arrancar who is strong enough to be an espada, will he reorder the espada or just leave it as is?

Most likely he was a new anacar like Wonderwise was. Personaly I would place him on par with grantz at least.Most likely the top 6 are all fairly close together powerwise. Yammi was getting completely owned by Ichigo, Aaroneiro was bested by Rukia(who i would gage as about VC level), Grantz is able to take on 2 people of captain level and not defeated instanly. Although it was a lossing fight luppi did take on 2 people of captain level and 2 people of VC level and still was not destroyed.

[ulquiorraftw]

problem is that if 1-6 are fairly close together how is it that grimmjaw can punch through luppi's stomach and then use a measily cero to kill luppi? so many people take cero's in the face and are fine.

also, i dont think hitsugaya, matsumoto, ikkaku and that other guy are good gauges on the strength of an espada. it seems like hitsugaya loses so often and i feel bad for the poor kid. easily seems like one of the weakest captains.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by ulquiorraftw

problem is that if 1-6 are fairly close together how is it that grimmjaw can punch through luppi's stomach and then use a measily cero to kill luppi? so many people take cero's in the face and are fine.

also, i dont think hitsugaya, matsumoto, ikkaku and that other guy are good gauges on the strength of an espada. it seems like hitsugaya loses so often and i feel bad for the poor kid. easily seems like one of the weakest captains.

When I said that 1-6 were close power wise i was includeing Grim as #6, Luppi is clearly weaker then grim but as I stated most likely stronger then the other 7-10 so when grim was thrown out the power gap moved from between 6 and 7 to 5 and 6.

Hitsugaya tends to lose so much cause the fights are so stacked agianst him. he has fought the righthand man of the main villian of the manga, the main villian, got beat up while at 1/5 his power. none of which give off the impression that he is that weak even if he is the weakest of the captains. Given that he isn't part of the main cast in the manga it's almost shocking he is still alive.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by ulquiorraftw

problem is that if 1-6 are fairly close together how is it that grimmjaw can punch through luppi's stomach and then use a measily cero to kill luppi? so many people take cero's in the face and are fine.

also, i dont think hitsugaya, matsumoto, ikkaku and that other guy are good gauges on the strength of an espada. it seems like hitsugaya loses so often and i feel bad for the poor kid. easily seems like one of the weakest captains.

Lol well forgot his name but we haven't seen Ikkaku's friend you his zanpaktou's real power again.

[Hisago]

With Luppi it's very hard to say, since he was killed so quickly. As was mentioned before, he took on 3 VC-level Shinigami without getting a scratch. In fact, the only reason he was taken down by Hitsugaya was because Hitsugaya surprised him.

As for his death by Grimmjow, again Grimmjow acted too fast and at too close of a range for Luppi to be able to defend himself. Without a proper-length battle, it's really impossible to decide.

Personally... I'd guess he'd be able to fight on par with Grimmjow if it was a fair fight, but whether he'd win against Grimmjow's release is debateable.

[ulquiorraftw]

yeah it makes me wonder if being unprepared has to do with the strength of characters. I guess reiatsu doesnt just pour out unless you try to do that because otherwise you'd always see those heavy lines whenever there is a part with aizen in it. so maybe thats why luppi got owned so easily.

once again though, I dont feel like VC level are good gauges for espada. yammi hasn't released yet and could probably own plenty of VC's. espada are definitely above captain level when they release. also, the way luppi fights gives him an advantage in terms of fighting more than one person since he has so many tentacles so it shouldnt be a gauge of his strength if he can fight multiple people when hes better equipped to fight multiple people but not necessarily to fight people one on one. ichigo would probably own luppi with his speed.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by ulquiorraftw

yeah it makes me wonder if being unprepared has to do with the strength of characters. I guess reiatsu doesnt just pour out unless you try to do that because otherwise you'd always see those heavy lines whenever there is a part with aizen in it. so maybe thats why luppi got owned so easily.

once again though, I dont feel like VC level are good gauges for espada. yammi hasn't released yet and could probably own plenty of VC's. espada are definitely above captain level when they release. also, the way luppi fights gives him an advantage in terms of fighting more than one person since he has so many tentacles so it shouldnt be a gauge of his strength if he can fight multiple people when hes better equipped to fight multiple people but not necessarily to fight people one on one. ichigo would probably own luppi with his speed.

If yammy were able to trash most of the people that are vc level in the real world then #9 should have completely owned rukia, who many still don't belive is even VC level, even with her final move. Also luppi was faceing off of 2 captain level, as since Ikkaku has bankai he should be considered captain level. The point is he has clearly been shown to be stronger then 10, 9, and I belive 8 (since 8 had to turn off renji and Ishida's main powers and still almost died).

Useing Ichigo as a base for power gague is not a good idea he is stronger then most espada. And was clearly trashing yammy with out the mask.

[ulquiorraftw]

Originally Posted by kagato3

If yammy were able to trash most of the people that are vc level in the real world then #9 should have completely owned rukia, who many still don't belive is even VC level, even with her final move. Also luppi was faceing off of 2 captain level, as since Ikkaku has bankai he should be considered captain level. The point is he has clearly been shown to be stronger then 10, 9, and I belive 8 (since 8 had to turn off renji and Ishida's main powers and still almost died).

Useing Ichigo as a base for power gague is not a good idea he is stronger then most espada. And was clearly trashing yammy with out the mask.

reason aaroniero died was because he got so close and got owned by rukia. he got careless. it was clear that rukia was finished. its comparative to sasori in naruto thinking chiyobasama couldnt move anymore and going in for the finish on sakura. but like I said before, yammi still hasn't even done his release yet.

you see, thats why the question of the difference between a 10 and a 9 is drastic or not. if they're actually pretty close in strength

and about ichigo cutting off yammi's arm off, it probably has to do with him not being focused because if you recall, ulquiorra said he should have been more focused and noticed who he was fighting and that wouldnt have happened. which brings me back to my point before, does focusing with ones reiatsu have a lot to do with it? cause if it does, maybe luppi is stronger than 10 9 and 8, but was just caught by surprise by grimmjaw.

[whatasob]

Originally Posted by ulquiorraftw

reason aaroniero died was because he got so close and got owned by rukia. he got careless. it was clear that rukia was finished. its comparative to sasori in naruto thinking chiyobasama couldnt move anymore and going in for the finish on sakura. but like I said before, yammi still hasn't even done his release yet.

you see, thats why the question of the difference between a 10 and a 9 is drastic or not. if they're actually pretty close in strength

and about ichigo cutting off yammi's arm off, it probably has to do with him not being focused because if you recall, ulquiorra said he should have been more focused and noticed who he was fighting and that wouldnt have happened. which brings me back to my point before, does focusing with ones reiatsu have a lot to do with it? cause if it does, maybe luppi is stronger than 10 9 and 8, but was just caught by surprise by grimmjaw.

to be honest, i don't think strong characters GET caught by surprise in bleach. all the crazy strong people like urahara ... u think they've ever been caught by surprise? lol if grimm cero'd nnoitra, he'd proly take it like a man, emerge completely unscathed, and be like "is that all you got? "

[Hisago]

Nonsense. Everyone can be surprised. Especially after a battle where everybody's licking their wounds and not wearing their heavy reiatsu shields...

[XxHaixX]

Originally Posted by ulquiorraftw

and about ichigo cutting off yammi's arm off, it probably has to do with him not being focused because if you recall, ulquiorra said he should have been more focused and noticed who he was fighting and that wouldnt have happened. which brings me back to my point before, does focusing with ones reiatsu have a lot to do with it? cause if it does, maybe luppi is stronger than 10 9 and 8, but was just caught by surprise by grimmjaw.

eh... i read the chinese version.... and my version only states lik this in direct translation...

after yammi's arm was cut off...

Ulquiorra: This idiot...That's why i told him to train his ability to sense spritual energies... Jumping out like that without senseing his spritual powers....

[astrallionheart]

I seriously doubt the iron skin is anything like One Piece's tekkai. For one thing, they've never shown any character actually tensing up to stop a strike. And in these kind of shows they'd probably call up some fancy name before it is initiated.

Kenpachi certainly didn't seem like he was tensing up or doing anything special when Ichigo's strike bounced off of him.

[kagato3]

while I belive there may be a limited way increaseing the toughness of a shinigmi's/hollows skin by in large as kenpachi told Ichigo. in order to cut spritual the object cutting it has to have a higher or more consentrated spritual power, so even a default at rest/surprised state their skin is still going to be strong and only those that are remotely close to the same power level will be able to cut them.

[cors8]

Well you also have to consider Luppi was still injured from the fight while Grimmjow wasn't as hurt and got healed up some.

Also, Luppi wasn't prepared to take the attack either.

[ulquiorraftw]

I think from watching the recent episode you can see that luppi almost lost even with his release. sure he was caught off guard but he should be owning with his release. and back to what i was saying about being caught off guard and focusing your reiatsu. it makes you wonder why you always see people powering up before they fight like when captains use their bankai etc. reiatsu is pouring out from them when they do so. it makes me think that its still important whether or not they're off guard or not and why luppi was owned so easily. so maybe luppi was fit to be rank 6, but that he was no where near grimmjow's level and maybe that 5 and up have huge differences in power levels. ie, noitora might be way stronger than grimmjaw.

[Super_Gilby]

I dont think noitora is so much stronger then grimmjow, why did he sneak attack grimmjow if hes so bad grimmjow isnt scared of noitora he freakin took on Uquoira i think noitora is slightly stronger then grimmjow but grimmjow has a chance to defeat him and thats why i think he attacked grimmjow while he was down cause noitora wants to be the strongest espada so hes an oppurtunist maybe grimmjow was gaining power or something, and how can you ppl say that lupi was unprepared what did he think grimmjow was gonna do shake his hand and say "oh its cool man i totally understand you calling me weak even though youre much stronger then me and i only took your place because you got your arm cut off" no... he knew he was gonna die so he didnt even move xD took it like a man ;D

[XxHaixX]

i agree... luppi had insulted GJ so much and he should know that GJ would kill him if he got his arm back... But he wasn't expecting GJ's arm to restore so quickly and he should know that he is no match for GJ even if he is not injured... as we can see, luppi didn't even try to flee when GJ blast him wif a cero...(though GJ's arm was still through him, he could make the effort right?)

[tbl]

GJ at full strength is slightly weaker than Ichigo at current full strength and I'd guess Luppi wouldn't be able to match up to Ichigo.