[Manga] Chapter 389 Discussion

[malvado]

Originally Posted by Quzor

As much as I'm inclined to agree, it's hard for me to completely resign myself to the belief that Jiraiya training Naruto had absolutely no benefits. It's true we've seen quite a bit of Naruto since he came back from the training, and none of it has been particularly impressive. However, I'm inclined to think that we should all reserve judgment until this whole "Sasuke story" business has come to a close. Even Kishi said that Naruto's story was going to have to wait (dumb as that is), because he's doing Sasuke and then Kakashi. And, since Sasuke has been showing off the skills her learned from Oro throughout almost his entire return to the series, I'm inclined to believe that his portion of the story is coming to a close here very soon, at which time we'll move on to Kakashi.

Basically, I'm suggesting that we haven't seen any of Naruto's growth from Jiraiya's training, as of yet, because the story hasn't specifically focused on him since his return. It's been about Akatsuki, or rescuing Sasuke, or Sasuke and Itachi, or the Bijuu, or a plethora of other things, and Naruto has just been weaved into those scenarios. I think, once we finally get to the portion of the story that is Naruto-centric, we'll all be pleasantly surprised by what Jiraiya has taught him.

At least, I hope so...

No I dont believe he has grown at all. At least not until the lvl of a jounin. At least thats what Jiraiya said when he was talkin to Tsunade. He clearly said Naruto has still got a long way to go.

[DetectiveA]

(this is to the post above this one)
When Naruto came back he learned to surpass his rasengan and he already shown that off.
And that is probably his best skill so far. But he did learn how to learn skills really quick. So probably after this Uchiha beef settles, Naruto will learn a couple of new skills real fast using his 1000 clones to train. And after he learns new skills, then probably they will go on a new mission where things pick up again.

[malvado]

Originally Posted by DetectiveA

(this is to the post above this one)
When Naruto came back he learned to surpass his rasengan and he already shown that off.
And that is probably his best skill so far. But he did learn how to learn skills really quick. So probably after this Uchiha beef settles, Naruto will learn a couple of new skills real fast using his 1000 clones to train. And after he learns new skills, then probably they will go on a new mission where things pick up again.

His best skill so far but he is not able to use it since it damages his body. k?

[james0246]

Just for fun .

I figured out how Kishimoto is going to get rid of Naruto for the rest of the year: Naruto is going to be trained by Kami who is located above Karin Tower .

Naruto is going to receive the message that Jiraiya left him, and travel away from Konoha for 1 month, arriving at Karin Tower. Once there he will climb for two days to reach the top, where he will use his Kage Bushin to reach Kami's Palace. Once in Kami's Palace, Naruto will be trained in how to control his own power as well as how to assimilate the Kyuubi's power directly into himself (making it completely his own, outside of the Kyuubi's influence). To add in his training he will spend 12 to 24 hours in the Room of Spirit and Time, effectively training for 6 months to 1 year in the room.

Afterwords, Naruto will return, finally able to fight Pein, as well as equally match Sasuke.

This seems to be the only way that Naruto can match up with his future opponents.
.
.
.
...just kidding .

[Lendial]

hed need that much if not more to even lay a scratch on sasuke.

[Nintendo]

Originally Posted by james3wk

Just for fun .

I figured out how Kishimoto is going to get rid of Naruto for the rest of the year: Naruto is going to be trained by Kami who is located above Karin Tower .

Naruto is going to receive the message that Jiraiya left him, and travel away from Konoha for 1 month, arriving at Karin Tower. Once there he will climb for two days to reach the top, where he will use his Kage Bushin to reach Kami's Palace. Once in Kami's Palace, Naruto will be trained in how to control his own power as well as how to assimilate the Kyuubi's power directly into himself (making it completely his own, outside of the Kyuubi's influence). To add in his training he will spend 12 to 24 hours in the Room of Spirit and Time, effectively training for 6 months to 1 year in the room.

Afterwords, Naruto will return, finally able to fight Pein, as well as equally match Sasuke.

This seems to be the only way that Naruto can match up with his future opponents.
.
.
.
...just kidding .

i could see naruto traveling snake way.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by El_Frenchie

That's possibly the worst assertive comment I've seen in a while. They haven't been powering up. The whole chapter this week was action action, action. This is highly unlike DragonBall Z where they stare at each other while dispensing pieces of storyline in a constipation warfare.

This fight only got into tactical taijutsu and ninjutsu, and I thought remained interesting throughout. It's the little things that made this fight better than just 'good'. The hidden weapons, the guided shuriken, the fireball jutsu.

If anything, this fight revived some techniques that (at least I thought) had been completely forgotten and unused during the latest chapters, such as the Kage Shuriken technique, the Shuriken Bunshin technique, the hidden weapons, simple tactical taijutsu coupled with Raiton releases, and finally, Sasuke using a KATON jutsu. (Someone should look back the chapters and see when he last used a Katon, and specifically, Goukakyu. That probably dates back to VotE.)

If anything, this has been a better chapter for me than even Jiraiya's fight against Pein, which felt more like a Deus Ex Machina rather than an actual ninja duel with tactical fighting. The analysis were making it too slow for my taste, and the tactical aspect, was not obvious enough.

As for the clone technique theory, I highly doubt it. The technique by Pein takes something around 30% of their chakra, and he couldn't use MS when fighting Naruto/Kakashi/Sakura. He already used ONE Kage Bunshin, which we all know separates equally the chakra between the clones. He wouldn't risk that (Supposing it -is- a clone) if he wanted to make that fight some sort of challenge for Sasuke.

This means after that point with the Shadow clone, he was at a maximum 50% chakra.

To me, this looks like the end of this fight, this is the last jutsu, the last resort for Itachi, his eye is bleeding, he was being overcome by Sasuke, and this is the trump card.

I say: Bring on next week!

Actually, from an outsiders view point, it has been them standing there constipated as the whole fight was in Itachi's and Sasuke's mind... so no one could possible see what was going on........ Which makes me wonder, when plant boy was like, ZoMg, I can't wait to see the new eye skill, cause this has been awesome so far... wtf is he talking about? he didn't see anything.... just them standing there looking at each other...

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Actually, from an outsiders view point, it has been them standing there constipated as the whole fight was in Itachi's and Sasuke's mind... so no one could possible see what was going on........ Which makes me wonder, when plant boy was like, ZoMg, I can't wait to see the new eye skill, cause this has been awesome so far... wtf is he talking about? he didn't see anything.... just them standing there looking at each other...

Because the "new eye skill" he was referring to was Amaterasu, which is a ninjutsu, not a genjutsu. Amaterasu has a physical composition, so it is visible to everyone, whereas genjutsu like Tsukuyomi have only a psychological composition, and so are only visible to the user and his/her target. He commented that the fight was boring (or something to that effect) when the genjutsu portion of the battle was going on, because they were simply staring at each other. However, once Sasuke escaped from Tsukuyomi, he knew the genjutsu portion of the fight was over, and so was looking forward to seeing the other "eye skill" he knew of; Amaterasu.

[HayashiTakara]

Sharingan is boring... if the artist never show what the illusion was, all we'll be seeing is two guys standing there looking at each other grunting.

[Khalilnaruske]

I wonder if Sasuke noticed Zetsu right behind Itachi in one of the panels?

[Deathwing]

Originally Posted by james3wk

Just for fun .

I figured out how Kishimoto is going to get rid of Naruto for the rest of the year: Naruto is going to be trained by Kami who is located above Karin Tower .

Naruto is going to receive the message that Jiraiya left him, and travel away from Konoha for 1 month, arriving at Karin Tower. Once there he will climb for two days to reach the top, where he will use his Kage Bushin to reach Kami's Palace. Once in Kami's Palace, Naruto will be trained in how to control his own power as well as how to assimilate the Kyuubi's power directly into himself (making it completely his own, outside of the Kyuubi's influence). To add in his training he will spend 12 to 24 hours in the Room of Spirit and Time, effectively training for 6 months to 1 year in the room.

Afterwords, Naruto will return, finally able to fight Pein, as well as equally match Sasuke.

This seems to be the only way that Naruto can match up with his future opponents.
.
.
.
...just kidding .

....kyubi is just a keoken 1-8(i think thats how you spell it) with a personality problem and resangan = spirit bomb

and thats my lame DBZ reference

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by Khalilnaruske

I wonder if Sasuke noticed Zetsu right behind Itachi in one of the panels?

Well seeing as the Sharingan can see chalkra, I'd be suprised if Sasuke & Itachi weren't aware of Zetsu being there, though it's still a possibility. If they aren't aware of him, then he is probablly more powerful then I gave him credit for originally. However I'm going to assume Sasuke probablly doesn't care so much as long as Zetsu doesn't interfear which it doesn't seem like he is going too, and there for Sasuke's full concentration is on Itachi.

Personally I think it would be intresting if Zetsu could gain the abilities of those he ate ;-D but in the mean time I guess we all have to wait to see what he is really capable off.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Well seeing as the Sharingan can see chalkra, I'd be suprised if Sasuke & Itachi weren't aware of Zetsu being there, though it's still a possibility. If they aren't aware of him, then he is probablly more powerful then I gave him credit for originally. However I'm going to assume Sasuke probablly doesn't care so much as long as Zetsu doesn't interfear which it doesn't seem like he is going too, and there for Sasuke's full concentration is on Itachi.

LOL, Sasuke is used to random people watching him from a distance. He had his fangirls back in Konoha, and then Orochimaru and company would probably always watch him from a distance. So, having another person watch him with anticipation is just par for the course. Nothing new

In all Seriousness though, in the Zetsu thread, I mentioned that if Zetsu is truly a 'spy' it is entirely possible that he can mask his chakra with his surroundings, effectively making him invisible to the Byakugan and the Sharingan.

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by james3wk

LOL, Sasuke is used to random people watching him from a distance. He had his fangirls back in Konoha, and then Orochimaru and company would probably always watch him from a distance. So, having another person watch him with anticipation is just par for the course. Nothing new

In all Seriousness though, in the Zetsu thread, I mentioned that if Zetsu is truly a 'spy' it is entirely possible that he can mask his chakra with his surroundings, effectively making him invisible to the Byakugan and the Sharingan.

It's highly possible he can make himself camaflouged beyond any recognition to those two. However if Pain noticed him, watching during his fight, again I'd be suprised that two of the most hacked ninjas in the Naruto world have not yet.

Though neither one can afford to direct their attention to him, because that tiny little window could be all the other brother needs to win. Still if I was Sasuke I'd be increadibly paranoid about another Akatsuki butting in during the most important battle of my life.

[kruption]

coolness man

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Sharingan is boring... if the artist never show what the illusion was, all we'll be seeing is two guys standing there looking at each other grunting.

In dragon ball and many other fighting manga if the artist didn't show their moves in slow motion we wouldn't see anything until it ends because they are moving so fast that we can't see it. So is it boring then?

[HiroInazuma]

If I was Sasuke just for fun I would use Katon on Zetsu, then watch him burn alive, also Zatsu who is a tree cannot use Mokuton?

[tatami]

zetsu isnt a tree...he is a plant...

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by tatami

to think that kakashi fooled itachi to use tsukuyomi...that makes him smarter than sasuke who take it head on?

Itachi didn't use Tsukiyomi on Kakashi or Naruto. Remember he told Naruto in the genjutsu that he could not use Mangekyo Sharingan at the moment. It was just a standard genjutsu.

I'd say that Kakashi is one of the most tactical ninja in the manga, on par with Shikamaru. Certainly he can come up with better combat strategy than Sasuke. But it's not as if Sasuke took the Tsukiyomi on purpose, he got caught in it within the heat of battle.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Ahh hunter, you are such a pessimist. To begin, kisame's words where "a water clone? the copy ninja is holding his own pretty well". To me he's saying they were fighting on even footing. it was a short fight yes, but to be honest neither party really took any damage until the MS techniques were displayed. Itachi may have looked like he was having an easy time, but lets be honest that means nothing. Gaara always looked like he was having an easy time initially, but he's lost 2x and barely won one!

This has nothing to do with pessimism or optimism, this is only about logic.
This was the introduction for the first duo of the Akatsuki, the praise of Kakashi as their opponent was nothing but a device used to hype Itachi in the first place, it is the same principle than with the 3rd Kazekage or Hanzou. Their introductions and their praises isn't about them, they were just measuring sticks to Sasori and Pain respectively.
This scene had one purpose : presenting Konoha's finest powerless in front of the newly introduced menace in the story.

All I'm saying is at least 2x akatsuki members in my opinion have made statements comparing the two's levels. Don't forget Deidara's words saying "he couldn't believe someone else existed that used doujutsu on the same level as itachi". And finally don't rule out Jiraiya's discussion with Tsunade about who would be the next hokage where I think kakashi and gai were brought up. Kakashi is strong and there is much to indicate they are on the same level.

No they didn't, again read what is actually being said and analyze the situation where it was said. The closest thing is Deidara's comment but even then he is comparing the result of their MS jutsu, kakashi's being introduced with a great deal of problem.
And Tsunade talked about Kakashi and Naruto, not Gai. I'm thinking you wouldn't arg Naruto's ability to take on Itachi considering what happened the last times he met Itachi's clones. And again it doesn't compare Kakashi to Itachi, or any other Akatsuki for that matters, it compares Kakashi to the rest of the ninja in Konoha bare Jiraiya and Tsunade.

Hmm... I disagree somewhat. Its not so much that Sasuke caught up, but rather that Sasuke just had the right set of techniques and abilities to be the one to beat him handedly (the sharingan bloodline).

Yes and no. But mostly no.
Yes Sasuke has the right abilities to fight Itachi : the same that Itachi has.
Sasuke isn't the scissor of Itachi's paper, they are both scissors, hence if he can fight him on equal level then he has obviously caught up with him.

Itachi would give say Kakuzu a run for his money, but Sasuke would probably have a lot of trouble with kakuzu since sasuke uses primarily elemental techniques with good taijutsu/sword play mixed in. Remember kakuzu is impervious to a lot of physical damage with his threads so good by swords and shurikens. Sasuke's fire elementals would pale compared to Kakuzus wind/fire elementals and so on. Again, Itachi is still strong, but don't forget he's only losing this match because he chose to use a risky technique out of pride that didn't work.

This isn't true. What jutsu did Itachi use out of pride exactly? The Tsukuyomi? That was the best jutsu at his disposal considering his goal. And I'm not going into a Vs. thread with Kakuzu but considering Kakazu was impervious to most physical damage because of a Doton armor Sasuke should have had an easier time than Itachi on this simply because all his physical attacks can be loaded with Raiton. Not even speaking of Sharingan Genjutsu which could end the fight before it really started of course since at this point it seems Itachi and Sasuke are about equal (or at least Sasuke's resitance is equal/higher than Itachi's offense).
Why do you think Kishimoto almost invented on the spot a relation between Itachi and Deidara in the past? Because all it would have taken to beat him otherwise was a glance from Sasuke.

And sasuke still shouldn't have been able to break out of it as remember the techniques real danger is it only lasts a second but feels like 72 hours, yet sasuke somehow broke out. Drives me nuts. The reality is the only real defense vs the tsukuyomi should be some sort of prevention ability, as opposed to a reversal (because by definition you don't have time to reverse it. Thats what kakashi said! geez. If you want to be technical, literally in 1 second of real time itachi's eye exploded. Makes me sick, with such bad writing)

I was very disapointed with the way Kishimoto chose to show the confrontation (or lack there of) against the Tsukuyomi but if you didn't see that coming this is bad reading on your part, not the way around.
Sasuke being the one who would break out from this jutsu was foreshadowed during the very introduction of this technique and the fact is that in order to fight Itachi it was necessary for Sasuke to be able to handle Genjutsu in general and Tsukuyomi in particular or there wouldn't have been any fight at all. Without the ability to sustain Itachi's Genjutsu you can't fight him, period.

The M.Sharingan is what gives Itachi the ability to cast a near instantaneous Genjutsu and the Sharingan is what allowed Sasuke to resist a near instantaneous Genjutsu, what is driving you nuts about this? Again when the MS was introduced we were directly told that the regular Sharingan could offer resistance against it.

The nuclear blast isn't useful. Its a suicide technique. You don't get points for having a suicide technique!

You do however get points for having bombs that can destroy a good chunk of a hidden village, for having billions of invisible nano-bombs destroying everything that lives on km³, for having air to air to ground to underground to underwater guided missiles, for having proximity mines, for having explosive clones, for having an anti-Genjutsu eye and for flying or outrunning Gai, Neji, Lee and TenTen.
Being smart and crafty is the cherry on top but it's not solely what made Deidara one of the deadliest ninja in the show. He was simply ridiculously overpowered.

In fact you compared Deidara with Kakashi and Gai, well here is a direct comparison : Kakashi put himself in an hospital just firing in the back of Deidara who lacked an arm and didn't have any weapon and yet even after losing his 2nd arm Deidara almost killed Gai, Kakashi, Sakura, Naruto, Neji, Lee, TenTen and Chiyo with an explosive clone.

Pain creeps me out since he somehow revived his bodies from the dead, after jiraiya killed 3 of them. His hype is insane. madara is too shadowy to be hyped though.

Well that's just me but I would say phasing through any kind of damage, KOing the Sanbi in one blow, controlling the Kyubi, still being stronger than Itachi, apparently having a MS without weakness or restriction, being called an "invincible immortal", founding the Uchiha clan, Konoha and the Akatsuki is at the very least being hyped enough