(L) ef - a tale of memories.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Ahhh... I need to start watching each episdoes as they come out or I get to have the honor of scrolling back 4 pages to catch up >.< Seems like I didn't miss much ^^, hold off on the arguments, so I can get off the world.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

As relentlessflame wrote, this show provides an "ample feast." If it goes on like this, it will be a classic for me.

Spoiler for ep8:

Kei driving Miyako away at the door was such a strong scene. The shower aspect of that sequence worked, and then Chihiro's bath worked so well, too, making her seem even more vulnerable. Of course, the eventual forgetting scene was just heartbreaking, but my heart was imploding long before that, not just from the events and personalities, but somehow from the visuals and the atmosphere of the whole show. I think Oonuma Shin must simply have great talent.

The visuals are becoming even more complex, if anything. I know the people who were put off by them in episode one aren't still around, but boy are they missing something. I liked the visuals then, but I love them now. The look of this show is a big part of the feast.

Spoiler for ep8 animation:

However, some of the mouth-synchronization in the middle part of this episode was indeed just awful. I'm guessing that one of the three companies to which the credits say animation was farmed out had some problems that the animation-correction team (also credited) was not able to iron out.

In general, I think this collection of (for the most part) third-tier seiyuus is doing wonderfully well. I'll give some kudos to the sound director, Tsuruoka Yota, who did SHnY, Lucky Star and Rozen Maiden, among many others. Directors must think he does something right: right now he is doing Sketchbook, Blue Drop, Dragonaut, Clannad and Ghost Hound. My understanding is that the sound director normally directs the seiyuus.

The discussions about who does or does not deserve sympathy seem so wrong to me. Of course it's useless to argue over personal reactions, but one of the great things for me about this show is that I feel both empathy and sympathy for all the main characters. I don't know yet which of their many supposed mistakes will turn out to be a correct decision, and I don't think anyone else does, either. And it doesn't matter. In this show at least, my sympathy doesn't depend on someone being deserving or "right." They all have their problems and habits and situations to deal with. I don't see any really bad people here, just fallible humans trying to get through their lives. How can I not feel sympathy for...

Spoiler for ep8:

...Kei, who sees the one whom she is realizing is the love of her life being taken away from her by someone who seems to be helping him destroy himself?

How can I not feel sympathy for Miyako, the light-hearted depressive who has finally found a love to give her a place to stand and sees him being taken away from her by this harridan, who wants to turn him back into a child?

And I even feel sympathy for the "elder brother," who has to be "realistic" to keep from breaking down. Although when he took the notebook away I was ready to leap in and stop him myself. I was so glad that they decided not to have him actually take it away. I have been worrying for episodes now about what might happen if she lost the notebook. I hope that doesn't ever happen. But what will Chihiro be like in the next episode? What will she feel/do when she sees the notebook again?

I certainly feel sympathy for Renji, who in some ways reminds me of Asaba in Iriya no Sora. He actually does love her, I think, but the whole situation is really too much for him. At least he hasn't yet abandoned her, as Asaba did Iriya in the middle of that show.

I feel pretty much the same way you do. Since this episode was mostly geared toward Chihiro and finally revealing truly what each and every episode were meaning by say "It's not good to get too involved with Chihiro" and finally Renji found out why, but it stopped at a good point to perplex the viewers and finally gives Chihiro a sympathy vote. We can thank Shaft for their weird ways of presenting animes, since Pani Poni Dash had a lot of them too.

I was really surprised how angrily Chihiro jumped for her Diary, pretty much vindicate her feelings of love toward Renji. It's funny how you compared Renji situation with Asaba from Iriya ^^, but that's pretty much his situation but without the physical pressure and more emotional waves of them, since he know jack about Chihiro's situation along with Chihiro never talking about it with Renji too.

Originally Posted by gray_moon

If something bad was to happen to Miyako how would Kei react to it? I'm pretty sure she didn't expect the meltdown that Miyako went through. If Kei finds out how much damage her action's caused to Miyako (even though making Hiro miss the date was through no direct action of her own), would she blame herself for it?

You can pretty much tell by the way she reacted when Hirono got a call on his cell that she was extremely fidgety. From what I can infer, she mostly likely has a streak of guilt deleting all of those messages, but she also wants Hirono for herself, but truly on the inside, her neglectful actions before, I would say are coming back at her quickly.

Originally Posted by gray_moon

atm I really can't see a happy ending for every character, each one of them just seems to have so much against them. I do think at least one person is going to end up hurt badly, or at the very least dissatisfied by the end of the show, but I will be hoping that I am wrong!

We can only hope for the best, eh?^^

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Well, she said she had disappeared from her parent's hearts. And in episode 1 she said that since her grandma isn't home, she can't get in because her key was in the stolen purse, indicating she isn't living with one of her parents anymore. So yes - i would say she was pretty much abandoned.

I would say it's more of the emotional attachment, but that's pretty much correct. Since her parents lost interests in each other, and none of them feel any remorse to leave Miyako on her own, even though she's with her grandmother too; In her situation, she is pretty much abandoned, even if she was living with her parents.

Originally Posted by tripperazn

Spoiler for The Final Scene in case you missed it:

*Hirono in his room staring at his cell*
*ring* (It says Public Telephone as Caller ID)
Hirono: Yes, this is Hirono.
*no answer, checks reception*
Hirono: Hello, can you hear me? ...Is this Miyako?
Miyako: Bingo
Hirono: ...Miyako
Miyako: Huh, so you do remember me.
Hirono: What's wrong? I was worried since I couldn't get in touch with you. Turn on your phone!
Miyako: So I didn't disappear...I still have not disappeared yet...

I'm glad I read this post, cause I keep forgetting that Ef has that "bonus" scene at the end ^^. Well... since I posted already why not?

Since she says I haven't disappeared yet, she still has a fighting chance. Hirono himself said he was worried, but we don't quite know yet if this "worry" is a emotional attachment rather than a "big brother" worry instead. My sisters has been doing some crazy crap, i gotta keep in touch with them more often than ever now >.<.

Originally Posted by tripperazn

Perhaps the most intriguing part of this ep, IMO is the opening shower scene. Monochromatic fanservice aside, Kei is clearly trying to wash away her guilt from the cell phone accident. Yet, she surprises me when she pulls what is probably the cruelest trick so far in the series. Just how does she feel about tricking Miyako and Hirono like that anyway? Even when her relationship with Hirono is progressing with him offering to spend more time with her due to their injuries, she still looks very unsure about her methods.

At least Miyako has taken a step away from the yandere direction, even though she isn't prominent here.

ChihiroxRenji once again climaxes with one of her offers, nothing really noteworthy IMO. The novel's symbolism is insightful as usual.

The real highlight of their arc is Himura's underhanded tactics here. He says he tried to wake her several times, but doesn't show any surprise when Renji wakes her with a single word. It's pretty clear from the way he obstructs Chihiro's rememberance of Renji and saying "it might be too late already" that he doesn't approve and now he's finally proactively stopping the relationship. At least that's my take on what transpired.

Is it just me or is the artistry of this series getting better and better? It was already a fairly deep and well done work, but damn...
Kei's mouth repeating the same 2 frames while delivering a line kinda detracts from it though...animation might actually be getting worse.

Well... Chihiro from the beginning was pretty much basing her story on her personal self and the limits she had, but since our beloved Renji came along, that chain link of hers is being bent, simply loosening up Chihiro. But now since he's seen Chihiro's other self, I want to know how Renji will respond. Since this is an anime he really only has 3 way to react:
1. Accept it now, take it like a real man ^^, lol j/k no "like a real man"
2. Reject Chihiro
3. It takes him some time like Asaba.

[cyoti]

Originally Posted by guuchan

That's one really bad spoiler there. Even though most people should know already from various sources (e.g. game "opening" video, DVD prologue) that how the characters are going to be paired up, it's still one bad spoiler, don't you think?

How exactly is that a spoiler? Are the filipinos known for their sterotypical happy endings or something?

Edit: I just realized that the series is about 2/3 of the way finished and currently two of the major female characters have already reached rock bottom so really now they can only go up from here

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by cyoti

How exactly is that a spoiler? Are the filipinos known for their sterotypical happy endings or something?

I meant the thingy in the spoiler tag, namely the game screenshot.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by guuchan

That's one really bad spoiler there....

The fact that it's a possibility in the game doesn't mean it's going to happen in the anime, necessarily (although I'd like it to). I'm no expert on games, but I thought they often had various possible endings.

Spoiler for ep8:

The one thing I worry about is that Kyousuke will continue to be a ladykiller and that if Kei falls for him, he will just use her like he seems to do his club president.

As for Renji, I think he was already feeling a push-pull towards Chihiro. He really enjoys her company and has strong feelings toward her, but every so often he realizes that she is acting as she thinks her character should, rather than from feelings developed from real memories, and it instinctively chills him, as it did on the beach in the previous episode.

He must be feeling pretty chilly at this point. Looking at Aoie_Emesai's possibilities, although I think he would really probably go Asaba and back off for a while before re-meeting her at the train station, I would kind of like to see him jolted by this vision of her true state into really caring for her. We'll see. Seeing how she relates to him when she sees him again after reading her notebook will be amazing.

Rewatching Chihiro trying to recall everything that happened in a day and then wake herself up before she can forget her memory of remembering was pretty harrowing. I feared earlier that they weren't going to be able to keep this memory-loss notion going, but they have raised it to new levels of drama.

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

The fact that it's a possibility in the game doesn't mean it's going to happen in the anime, necessarily (although I'd like it to). I'm no expert on games, but I thought they often had various possible endings.

Usually they are, but ef is pretty much single-routed --- it's either continue or game over (or you can call it bad ending, but either way, you don't get to advance to the next chapter or the rest of the story).

[tabun]

Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai

I was really surprised how angrily Chihiro jumped for her Diary, pretty much vindicate her feelings of love toward Renji.

But is it really love?

The way I understand it, she lived for a long time "by the book", meaning the guidelines her sister put in her diary to ensure Chihiro's "memory" would at least grant her some sort of order in her life. The fact that she met Renji and him being quite responsive to her (and her state) let her more than ever realize her limitation, yet also fed the hunger for more in her life.

During the time with Renji, she came as close to being normal as never before (after the accident). Rather than being in love with him in the first place, I think he is her anchor to that life she craved so desperately. Being deprived of this sole link to her new life would, in fact, be like dying to her. Imagine someone came over to you and said "sorry, but I have to take away your memory of the last few weeks*, it's in your own best interest". Unthinkable! [* (or even years, as not only the time with Renji is written down in her diary)]

Originally Posted by Shana

I've watched episode 8, SHAFT really knows how to please the followers . I remember someone said in this thread (I think) "After all, this isn't KimiNozo" but after that Chihiro scene, I have to say "Sorry, but you are wrong, this is KimiNozo with a more-interesting plot".

I really don't understand how these two series can be compared to each other, but I guess that remains a matter of personal opinion.

[SuperKnuckles]

Call me nuts, but it seems that Chihiro, in a typical day, doesn't even interact with Kei.

It seems Yu Himura (white hair guy) is the primary caretaker of Chihiro.

Also, I doubt Renji was in it purely for romance from the get-go anyway. He just seems to be fascinated with her to begin with. I honestly believe him when he says to his mom that she isn't his girlfriend. Not yet anyway.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Bahamut89

If you think it's cute, it's being told wrong. Well, it does sound like the kind of short story I like to read.

By 'cute', I meant the naivete of the girl, no matter how ridiculous the things she is doing. Like throwing away the wedding dress into the garbage heap just because she doesn't know better. It comes off as a slightly dark comedy to me. Sniffing smoke without knowing better, kissing paintings only to taste oil. Comedic genius.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

By 'cute', I meant the naivete of the girl, no matter how ridiculous the things she is doing. Like throwing away the wedding dress into the garbage heap just because she doesn't know better. It comes off as a slightly dark comedy to me. Sniffing smoke without knowing better, kissing paintings only to taste oil. Comedic genius.

Most importantly, it does make the girl sound weird. That was her goal after all.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by tabun

The way I understand it, she lived for a long time "by the book", meaning the guidelines her sister put in her diary to ensure Chihiro's "memory" would at least grant her some sort of order in her life. The fact that she met Renji and him being quite responsive to her (and her state) let her more than ever realize her limitation, yet also fed the hunger for more in her life.

Good points about Renji being an anchor to normal life.

On the other hand, though, I think Yuu only meant to take away the journal temporarily, so that she would have nothing else to do but go to sleep. If you remember from the dialogue the summaries in the journal help Chihiro remember the moments in more vivid detail; in essence its just a stronger version of her running over important things in her mind. All Yuu's actions were saying was "be satisfied with your summaries, don't overextend yourself".

Y'know, the 13 hour thing really is pretty convenient for this kind of condition. The fact that it's longer than how long it takes her to sleep means that Chihiro actually doesn't really need the diary; although she can only retain approximately 2 and a half hours of memories (assuming an average of 8 hours of sleep, and equal time spent memorizing and remembering before and after sleep), those 2 and a half hours can theoretically stay with her forever.

Like, Chihiro is aware of her condition before going to bed, and is aware of it upon waking. Therefore, she doesn't need to reread the first couple pages of her diary every day because she's always carrying that information. It is only on the rare occasions when she loses conciousness for a full 13 hours that she experiences a 'full reset'. That just makes this episode even sadder, though.

I have to wonder. These 'full resets' can't be happening all that often. I'd say they might only occur when Chihiro is really sick; she's probably only had to go through the shock of finding out about her body and her memories again a couple times, at most. If that's the case, then I'd consider Yuu's actions upon Chihiro's waking up to be the superior jackassery. I mean honestly, you've got this fragile girl going through a life changing crisis behind you and all you do is look at the other guy and go "See? You can't handle this." Why don't you answer her when she goes "Himura-san?" and give her a hug or something, ya little fuck.

[SuperKnuckles]

I'm pretty sure Renji isn't exactly an anchor to Chihiro's life. Not yet anyway. If you look at it objectively, all Renji did so far as disrupt Chihiro's life as much as help her.

Also, I really doubt the 13 hour rule has changed at all.

It seems that Chihiro put herself through not sleeping through precisely because her life resets every time. It must be a monumental effort just to get out of the bed and out of the house every day.

[Kaoru Chujo]

(episode 8 spoilers follow)

I think that Yuu has his own issues, quite naturally. His self-worth is probably bound up with his caring for Chihiro, so there is likely some subconscious resistance to anyone becoming closer to her than him. That's why I have had my reservations about him, although I can sympathize with him, too. He has to have no hope, because his hopes have been dashed before, in the early days, and he couldn't stand to have them dashed again.

I picture Chihiro normally spending an hour or so memorizing the salient facts of her life before she goes to sleep every night. Recently, however, she has so much that she wants to actually remember that she is waking herself early to memorize facts about the previous day with Renji and her novel -- or memorize what she has gone over the night before -- so she ends up falling apart from lack of sleep. At least I think that's what is supposed to be going on. Am I right?

I think Renji is an anchor to a new life for Chihiro, rather than the old one. I hope that she will get her new life back somehow. Hope.

[toxic_trance]

Episode 5 and 6 of this series had made me really happy since I felt that SHAFT was finally starting to do the good job I felt the story deserved. But episode 7 became really painful to watch. The thing with this show is that I know a beautiful story is going on..but the presentation just turns me off. We hardly get to see characters faces..and the scenes seem so over dramatized...that somewhere the true essence of this story is losing out.

Is it me..or there are others who feel that SHAFT is doing a bad job over here

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I picture Chihiro normally spending an hour or so memorizing the salient facts of her life before she goes to sleep every night. Recently, however, she has so much that she wants to actually remember that she is waking herself early to memorize facts about the previous day with Renji and her novel -- or memorize what she has gone over the night before -- so she ends up falling apart from lack of sleep. At least I think that's what is supposed to be going on. Am I right?

Yeah, that was my interpretation as well.

Himura does have his own issues, as that last bit showed. I would have considered his initial taking away of her journal as reasonable in the interests of Chihiro's well-being, but the other behaviour clearly demonstrated some mixed up priorities. Well, in that case, Chihiro's healing would also be directly linked to Himura's healing.

I'm kinda stuck as to how Chihiro could possibly heal, though. This episode served to explore the range of Chihiro's options within the limitations imposed upon her. Maybe I'm just not creative, but I can't really see a happy ending which doesn't involve somehow transcending those limitations. On the other hand, if Chihiro is somehow magically healed by the end of the show, that would cheapen the story somewhat, I feel.

Your note about ef - the latter tale is interesting. So, I presume that means that nobody (among the audience at least) knows the conclusion to Renji and Chihiro's story?

[tabun]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I think Renji is an anchor to a new life for Chihiro, rather than the old one. I hope that she will get her new life back somehow. Hope.

That was indeed what I meant with anchor, because all that she seemingly has gained circles around the person of Renji being present.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

On the other hand, though, I think Yuu only meant to take away the journal temporarily, so that she would have nothing else to do but go to sleep.

Quite so, but due to the extent of her "memories", losing this time to sleeping might set her back for several days even! To what content exactly remains, of course, unknown to us.

[toxic_trance]

Ah..just watched Episode 08..and thnk god SHAFT kept back its symbolism and focused more on characters. I see "50 First Dates" Scene repeating :P

BTW..doesnt Chihiro remember that she got into an accident..or does every morning Himura-niisan tell her to read the diary???

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by toxic_trance

BTW..doesnt Chihiro remember that she got into an accident..or does every morning Himura-niisan tell her to read the diary???

Read what others are currently talking about before you post. As long as she doesn't sleep for more than 13 hours she remembers she's been in an accident and knows about her diary.

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Your note about ef - the latter tale is interesting. So, I presume that means that nobody (among the audience at least) knows the conclusion to Renji and Chihiro's story?

Yep. Actually, right now it doesn't really matter anyway. Just like Hiro, Miyako, Kei, and Kyosuke, we might know how they are going to end up with each other, but we wouldn't know what's going to happen in the next stage of the story. As I mentioned a few times, right now the show has completely drifted off from the game. It's the story development that we enjoy, not the conclusion, right? But I believe we should be able to see a satisfying ending for all the characters.

[relentlessflame]

(Catching up from last night...)

Originally Posted by guuchan

That's one really bad spoiler there. Even though most people should know already from various sources (e.g. game "opening" video, DVD prologue) that how the characters are going to be paired up, it's still one bad spoiler, don't you think?

On the one hand it is... we're not allowed to spoil future events even in spoiler tags in this thread. That being said, I also agree with the other half of your statement -- that they've never exactly been coy at all on who's ending up with whom. Not to mention that, at this point, the damage has been done... I did edit out the image, though, in case there are any innocents that can still be spared...

Anyway, as a reminder, no spoiling game events in this thread, and no posting game CGs. Even if it's pretty strongly suggested anyway, we should let the anime tell its own story.

[frustra]

caught up with ep. 8, and it impresses once more, solidifying its hold as my favorite anime of the season. SHAFT's audiovisual artistry + quality storytelling = excellent anime (so far)

I just can't help thinking that the Renji-Chihiro pairing will be a tragedy in the making, and if SHAFT decides to boldly go for it, plus respect points for them, and I expect it to make a huge impact. although seeing Chihiro try so hard against her handicap makes me want to root for her to succeed.

nevertheless, if they want to go with the happy-ending route, i hope the studio will be creative with it.

ultimately, with 4 eps(?) to go, I hope they finish the plot nicely.

8.75 / 10