2008-04-16, 11:34 | Link #281 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Age: 36
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Hehe, this single line really got me there. It's more of opinionated comment with applications of factual statements.
Unfortunately, while you try to maintain an unbiased attitude, you're still adopting Lelouch's perspective (or more specificly, one greatly in favor of Lelouch's objective and greatly opposed to Suzaku's). At this point, there's nothing wrong with being biased. If you can be biased but maintain a reasonable argument, or contend against other arguments with your own evidence, then it's perfectly fine. For one particular point that you mentioned, you stated that Suzaku became a traitor to the Japanese people. If Suzaku being in opposition to Japanese rebellion is treachery, then by that line of thought, he has already been a traitor. By that same reasoning, I could also contend that Lelouch or rather Zero, was at one point a traitor to Japan when he had opposed the JLF. Now I know that I will receive a lot of counter-arguments for making that comparison, but consider this: At that very moment, which if I recall correctly was before Zero's declaration of "fighting for justice," who else would have fought for Japan's freedom? Mind you, they are radical and extreme, but if you take into consideration that no other major rebel group has proposed to the Eleven people the same idea.... then that would essentially be quite appealing to them (to many if not all). What I am factoring in is the animosity between Britannian and Eleven people. Now, here is where my opinion comes in on the matter. Of course I believe as many do, that in that circumstance Lelouch was no traitor. He did what was necessary and reasonable for ALL people. Imagine what the world then would have reverted to if the JLF group had been in fact successful (whether acquiring their demands or executing the hostages). That would have major implications on society, and there would be essentially no constraint on what one group would do to another then (Britannia vs. Area 11). Just as well, if you feel that Suzaku was a traitor, then you are entitled to that opinion by all means. But to say that it is a fact that he is a traitor is ambiguous at best. He did not go out of his way to directly oppose or oppress(sp?) the 11 people, but rather, he did what he felt was necessary, which was to suppress the rebel forces, and especially capture the individual who had killed a royal princess (and not just any random princess, but one who he had close ties with and was in support of his ideals). Mind you... there has essentially been no treachery (if we must refer to defintion of it: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty). Not even Lelouch becoming Zero is a betrayal of Suzaku's trust, because he has never once used Suzaku's friendship against him. |
2008-04-16, 11:39 | Link #282 |
The Last Frontier
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It's kinda hard to write a purely factual summary of Suzaku's character cause of his psychological issues. Factually however, it doesn't sound too good either.
Facts -Bullied Lelouch -Made friends with Lelouch and Nanali eventually -Killed his father as a child because he thought it would save Japan -Joined the Army. -Became a Knight. -Watched his princess die. -Turned in Zero for the Knight of Rounds position. -???? edit: Oh right, forgot to add he saved Lelouch in the very first episode too. And was bullied as an 11 in Ashford. Can run on walls and outrun gun bullets.
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2008-04-16, 14:33 | Link #286 | |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
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Quote:
I'm curious as to how much contact V.V. has had with Suzaku and whether that has been influencing him at all.
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2008-04-16, 18:09 | Link #287 |
Senior Member
Author
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What I am curious about is how far Suzaku is really willing to prove his loyatly. What I mean is that is he willing to kill an innocent now if he is under orders? Heres a good example I have in mind.
What if he was in the Special Forces group or Secret Intelligence group is both episode 1's of season 1 and 2 respectively. Would he resort to killing any witnesses and burning people alive just to wipe away evidence, even if those witnesses were just small children? Also what about the Student Council and his "friends" at school? Would he kill them if he was told so? That is what will truly define him in my eyes. On a side note: what happened to that pyramid's like thing in episode 19 and what do you think it is? I wonder if that has anything to do with maybe opening the door on Kameniji (I assume it's a door). Maybe that has something to do with how V.V. can get around. |
2008-04-16, 18:20 | Link #291 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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No no no, I meant in the war with the EU, during that scene with all the EU knightmare frames lying in a wreck and from what I can surmise about the typical rural village background during Zero's speech about being sad and stuff, I would presume that Britannia has already made landfall in Europe right now.
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2008-04-16, 18:46 | Link #294 |
Senior Member
Author
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I heard somewhere before (I think it was either Krimzon or Dann that said this) that the EU is currentley and I quote "Having there front door being banged down by the Empire while the Chinese Federation are fumbling with the lock on the back." That said is Egypt part of the EU? I have been wondering who controlled Africa.
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2008-04-16, 18:48 | Link #295 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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EU has Africa, or should I say had Africa according to the map at the beginning of Turn 2. The Chinese Federation seems to be expanding slowly into the EU territory of Russia from what I can gather in the article in combination with the map >_>
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2008-04-16, 21:20 | Link #296 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
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but in fact, it was a tragic accident |
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2008-04-16, 21:31 | Link #297 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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As far as Suzaku's concerned, his hands are clean as long as he doesn't do the harming personally. So he would have no problem letting someone ripping Nunnally's fingers out one by one as long as he is out of earshot.
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2008-04-17, 00:28 | Link #300 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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The very fact that VV was the last person who had custody of Nunnally means Suzaku wouldn't have been "watching out for her". Quite simply, Suzaku is completely apathetic of any and every crime Britannia commits, so he would leave Nunnally in the Emperor's "capable hands" the same way he handed over Lelouch.
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