Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood - Episode 13 Discussion/Poll

[shiroandfubuki]

Originally Posted by Karlson

Wow I must've been dead tired or something to not catch that the first time around. Yes your absolutely right how does she come in knowing a weakness like that without Ed even mentioning it to her? I think it's safe to say that not alot is known about the Homonculous (at this point) to begin with. Much less something like that. Now I admit it would feel rather strange watching Izumi fail to even scratch Greed after seeing Ed pull off more than just that moments ago in the fight that preceeded her quick appearance right at the end, but they could've planned that part out alot better too.

I believe that she mentioned (before deconstructing the armor across Greed's face) that she could "hear the two of them yelling down the hall", which explains it, I guess.

As far as the episode goes... Honestly, I don't think I'd notice anything wrong if I hadn't read the manga. In fact, I mentioned some of the arguments I see about Brotherhood and its pacing, development, etc. to a friend who has only seen Brotherhood, and neither read the manga nor watched first anime, and she finds all of our complaints rather silly.

Not that I can forgive this episode's speeding through the Greed Arc - the scene where they try and fail to hypnotize Al so that his memory is returned will be missed - but I understand the process through which the source material must go through to be adapted, and thus also understand the probable reasons that the pacing so far has been haphazard at best.

All in all, the content of the episodes is firstly the decision of the screenwriters, whose script is then accepted and/or mutilated by the director, whose creative decisions, of course, become what the viewers watch. Now, what was the supposed goal of Brotherhood? To be a faithful adaptation of the manga - and, in being a faithful adaptation, present the content that wasn't in the first anime series. And an adaptation, even a faithful one, is nigh impossible without elision and interpolation, or the subtraction of source material and the addition of new content to fill holes, etc. in the source material. A "truly" faithful adaptation would probably be considerably longer - even too long - and then people would probably complain about that, too. :/

And so far, there is, though many hate to admit it, a certain method to the madness in that we are getting to new content far more quickly than if a more normal episodic pace were taken.There will, however, be nothing to gain from this pacing later on, which is why my gut tells me things will go by much more slowly after the "old content" is over.

TL;DR: In other words, I think all of us expect too much, and should take a deep breath and relax. Just because the episodes so far have pummeled through the source material doesn't mean future ones definitely will.

We, my fellow Hagaren fans, should have faith in our faithful adaptation.

(Then again, this comes from someone who's favorite parts of the arc seem to have been hinted at in the preview...and also wants to see the new content fairly quickly. I'm hardly unbiased. :P )

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by shiroandfubuki

TL;DR: In other words, I think all of us expect too much, and should take a deep breath and relax. Just because the episodes so far have pummeled through the source material doesn't mean future ones definitely will.

On the other hand, there's nothing at the moment saying that they won't rush through the source material like they did with episode 13. You should be able to understand where we're coming from with our fear for this.

[shiroandfubuki]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

On the other hand, there's nothing at the moment saying that they won't rush through the source material like they did with episode 13. You should be able to understand where we're coming from with our fear for this.

I completely understand, and on some level agree. I'll be beyond disappointed if they continue at episode 13's pace, and I understand exactly where the argument comes from.

I'm just saying that, at the moment, it's not the end of the world. And that, while the current pace has a reason behind it, if this sort of thing is pulled later we really can blame it on BONES's incompetence. We can only hope.

Really, this is just me being too optimistic. ^^;

[BetoJR]

I, for one, both watched the first anime and read the entirety of the published manga and I don't have many problems with the pacing, here. Still highly enjoying the series, myself.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

I wonder if you still wouldn't mind the fast pace if they also went with it for the Ling chapters and you didn't get to see as much of him. Now that would be bothersome, wouldn't it?

Well obviously I would, but I'd rather not assume that they will. I prefer to be optimistic. I doubt that they'll rush the Ling chapters though.

[jonli]

... I was really dissappointed with this episode.

I knew the pace was rushed, but I thought they would eventually stop rushing when they reach the point where the first two animes diverged.

Which is basically Greed's arc.

Instead they still rushed this episode entirely . Greed is one of my favourite characters and there are many cute funny moments that lighten up his character in the manga. All of those moments were taken away :'(....

*sniff*...Greed....

[karumofin]

so we reached it, 13 episodes of retelling things form the first series.
this is the point where the first series went downhill, im realyl rooting for a good plot this time around. cant wait for next week.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by jonli

... I was really dissappointed with this episode.

I knew the pace was rushed, but I thought they would eventually stop rushing when they reach the point where the first two animes diverged.

Which is basically Greed's arc.

Instead they still rushed this episode entirely . Greed is one of my favourite characters and there are many cute funny moments that lighten up his character in the manga. All of those moments were taken away :'(....

*sniff*...Greed....

Well actually I would say the first series diverged after the Greed arc so we are not there just yet. The first series did add a lot of extra things that were not in the manga storyline at this point so yeah people should realize that such and such scene is not part of this story

Spoiler for 1st anime:

Wrath is not on the island

But it's not until after this arc that you can see how the manga story line's direction is completely different from the 1st series. Next episode and especially the preview should really show people that things are being taken in a different direction. I hope we will get more response from people who only have seen the 1st series since this new series should no longer just feel like the same thing for them. The episode discussions have not been that exciting up to now have they?

[Karlson]

Alright I've done enough nitpicking on this episode. Time to at least mention one thing that I liked that I don't think was mentioned in the manga or the 1st series. When Ed finally arrived at the Devil's Nest he asks why Greed couldn't just ask his fellow brethren and then proceeded to make mention of his meeting of Number 48 (since like Al he was an armor suit with a soul and no body) back during the Lab 5 incident. Since a good chunk of us know what's coming I guess most of us won't pay it much mind but I think that plays a nice role as a tool of foreshadowing of what is going to happen that I never witnessed before so it was a nice touch.

Originally Posted by shiroandfubuki

I believe that she mentioned (before deconstructing the armor across Greed's face) that she could "hear the two of them yelling down the hall", which explains it, I guess.

The fansub I watched said it as " I know. I could hear you all the way down from the hallway" which I always thought when she said that she was referring to the sound of fighting but since she said that in response to Ed warning her Greed is a Homonculous it can actually be argued that she did hear his weakness as well as him being a homonculous. I still think it's rather silly knowing that way but that's just my opinion

All in all, the content of the episodes is firstly the decision of the screenwriters, whose script is then accepted and/or mutilated by the director, whose creative decisions, of course, become what the viewers watch. Now, what was the supposed goal of Brotherhood? To be a faithful adaptation of the manga - and, in being a faithful adaptation, present the content that wasn't in the first anime series. And an adaptation, even a faithful one, is nigh impossible without elision and interpolation, or the subtraction of source material and the addition of new content to fill holes, etc. in the source material. A "truly" faithful adaptation would probably be considerably longer - even too long - and then people would probably complain about that, too. :/

I'm good friends with someone who's like that so I know where your coming from there.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

But it's not until after this arc that you can see how the manga story line's direction is completely different from the 1st series. Next episode and especially the preview should really show people that things are being taken in a different direction. I hope we will get more response from people who only have seen the 1st series since this new series should no longer just feel like the same thing for them. The episode discussions have not been that exciting up to now have they?

Discussion has been lacking yes, and I'm sure the new content will trigger some more responses from them but probably not to the level we're hoping for at least not starting out.

[Knowledge Seeker]

Originally Posted by Karlson

Discussion has been lacking yes, and I'm sure the new content will trigger some more responses from them but probably not to the level we're hoping for at least not starting out.

Yeah, it might be awhile before the fans comes to discuss. That's fine by me, it's easier to keep track of comments with less posters. =P

Anyway, this episode was pretty good. I know that people feel that everything is too condensed, but I'm loving the pace. It feels like I'm watching a different series than the previous one, which is a good thing. The first FMA series lacked great fight scenes, Brotherhood is definitely fixing that. The battles in this installment leave me with a sense of adrenaline. While the first series did the Ed vs. Greed fight well, this is definitely superior in my opinion.

It feels like the writers are trying to keep things nice and sweet. So far, there's been an adequate balance between story episodes and action ones. I hope this keeps up.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by shiroandfubuki

All in all, the content of the episodes is firstly the decision of the screenwriters, whose script is then accepted and/or mutilated by the director, whose creative decisions, of course, become what the viewers watch. Now, what was the supposed goal of Brotherhood? To be a faithful adaptation of the manga - and, in being a faithful adaptation, present the content that wasn't in the first anime series. And an adaptation, even a faithful one, is nigh impossible without elision and interpolation, or the subtraction of source material and the addition of new content to fill holes, etc. in the source material. A "truly" faithful adaptation would probably be considerably longer - even too long - and then people would probably complain about that, too. :/

Personally, i have to say that it is generally much better to add material than to subtract it...

When you subtract your loose control of the pacing and thus are stuck with a rather rushed pacing... in addition you end up cutting out scenes that would have played out to be rather enjoyable

When you add, you have more control and have a better shot giving the episodes a fair pacing... granted, you might end up throwing in some slow pacing, but taking your time when telling a story is healthier than rushing through it... better the story be told well, then to tell a story that feels like it's lacking in some way

ofcourse, this in no way condones what shonen's have done... where that add so much material that the pacing isn't just slow, but moving at a snail's pace... and that's not done for the sake of storytelling, but for the sake of buying time and delaying the storytelling... so i guess what i should be saying is that you need to do a little bit of both to maintain fair pacing... shonen's do to much of one, and brotherhood does too much of the other

[Rika24]

the order of events bothered me a bit but it's ok i guess. right now i'm just really worried about some of my top favorite parts of the manga that are coming up very soon. to avoid spoilers i'm talking about the ross and mustang parts as well as the *certain parts* of volume 10... i'm sure *certain fans* also share my worries.

by the way, those looking for the preview for next episode can find it on the official FMA site

[Kirvee]

Finally saw it. Pretty good. I don't remember a whole lot of the manga chapters for this arc, so I didn't have any problem with the pacing. But after reading comments, I do hope they'll slow down. 3 chapters for a manga like FMA is a LOT to cover in one episode.

Next arc looks like it'll be AMAZING! Can't wait ^_^.

[CuXe]

K so.. I haven't followed the discussions ever since this remake of FMA started but so far I have to say... I love the animation and artwork in the remake but as far as telling the story I have to go with the first version of FMA ... this one definitively feels rushed and I dont' know if it is because they are going to be adding some new material that they want to put in there but dam .. overall I feel that important parts are being killed ...

I remember the part during Huges funeral (last ep I guess) where they are buring him and Elicia starts asking her mom why is it that they were burring her dad... ... I remember that in the first version of FMA that part absolutely scarred me for life.. but in this second version I felt it was pretty uneventful .... kinda like saying "a third world country dog died today.. who? Huges... ohh .. yeah"......

I'll keep watching this remake but overall I feel that the story telling pace of the first version tops this remake

[Guido]

People, while I may not fully empathize with your frustation due to the storyline quality between the first and the second FMA series, realize that it would had been counter-productive for the writers had they repeated most of the same events that the first series already showed.

At the time when the first FMA series began airing, the FMA manga was not fully fleshed out and far in the storyline (a single manga chapter comes out every month)

Most of the early events that are either shown in brief or have been skipped in the second series were quite more or less expanded upon in the first series.

Spoiler:

For example, take for instance Ed's match against Greed in this episode.

I loved it when it went on display in the first series, because it turned into a climactic battle to the death which served to close a major story arc in the first series.

This time around it went rather uneventful and unsurprising to me because 1) I already knew what was the outcome based on my previous experience with the first series, and 2) the match itself is not used to close a story arc but rather properly explains to the audience about Greed's powers and capabilities as well as his personality, and at the same time treats the viewers with a more detailed insight of Ed's personality.

The thing is that the storylines among the first and the second series are beginning to diverge greatly, and we can only hope that the next episode will finally separate completely so that this current series part ways and starts to delve in its own storyline directly based on the manga.

[Kirvee]

^I agree. And hopefully with that the number of people whining and complaining about the differences between the first and second series will shut up and pay attention to the real story based on the manga. Just another week or two.

[GaimeGuy]

Originally Posted by CuXe

K so.. I haven't followed the discussions ever since this remake of FMA started but so far I have to say... I love the animation and artwork in the remake but as far as telling the story I have to go with the first version of FMA ... this one definitively feels rushed and I dont' know if it is because they are going to be adding some new material that they want to put in there but dam .. overall I feel that important parts are being killed ...

I remember the part during Huges funeral (last ep I guess) where they are buring him and Elicia starts asking her mom why is it that they were burring her dad... ... I remember that in the first version of FMA that part absolutely scarred me for life.. but in this second version I felt it was pretty uneventful .... kinda like saying "a third world country dog died today.. who? Huges... ohh .. yeah"......

I'll keep watching this remake but overall I feel that the story telling pace of the first version tops this remake

Sounds like you've only seen the first anime and have no exposure to the manga....

FYI, they're not adding a few story details in Brotherhood: They're adapting the manga storyling, of which nothing past a little under the first 3rd was used at all in FMA1, and a good portion of the first 3rd of the manga was unused in FMA1 (or changed significantly)... not to mention the "main" plot of the manga goes ont to be completely different...

I would say only about 1/4th or even 1/5th of the manga ended up actually being loosely adapted in the first series, all of which was material from the first 25-30 chapters. The rest of the first series consisted of:
-Filler episodes (ie: the episode with the alchemist thief, Psiren)
-Material adapted from FMA books and/or video games (the fake elrics and the red liquid)
-Completely original content for a completely original plot (The entire Dante arc...everything after the fight with Greed).



Also: Hughes' death isn't meant to be so much a tragedy in the manga as it is meant to be an event connected to a much bigger mystery about something threatening the military and as a catalyst to putting Roy into action into investigating the military.


They have been going through things at a pretty quick place though....

They're already up to chapter ~30 of the manga in just 13 episodes (and this is with episode 1 being completely original to Brotherhood, so really, they covered ~30 chapters in 12 episodes.) And these are extremely meaty 40+ page chapters serialized monthly

[Kirvee]

^Yeah, and those numbers together like that don't sound very good. But we'll have to see how everything turns out.