No Game No Life - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[watisit]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Perhaps I'm missing something but what exactly would you gain by obtaining a race piece from another exceed? Is there any use for that except for the race that originally owns it?

You get an entire race of slaves, and everything they own, which in this case would be about double the land with all the resources for the werebeasts. And naturally yes, another race can own it if they win it. Remember rule 4 "what they bet and the rules of the game will not be questioned"

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

You make a good point, but then they could change their position from "they are crazy" to "they are psycopaths under control of an unknown powerful race which has no regards for Imanity whatsoever".

It could be pointed out that not only they defeated an elf but a flugel too and one after another. If they refuse everyone will not think that they retreated from mere humans but from deceiving humans backed from an unknown powerful faction. Conversely if they accept, everyone will believe that from the very beginning the "unknown faction" was no other than the warbeasts themselves, which incidentally is the conclusion that Clammy reached.

It is probable that Sora knew that for the warbeasts either choice would be bad for them, whether they accept or not it would still be a problem.

As Sora himself said, they had to accept the game as they needed to wipe his memory at all costs. And the werebeasts naturally know they are not the ones backing him. With the stakes that high they cannot refuse the game and say Sora is delusional for the reasons I posted before.

[lolzorz]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But Sora said the elves eventually figured out what the game was. They just couldn't think of a way to win. Though I suppose he could help, there.

Indeed. Upon rewatching the ep Sora's reasoning was apparently: The elves fundamentally do not understand the Eastern Union's game, since the Eastern Union was the only race with sufficiently advanced technology. Thus, the elves could not win it because they cannot even grasp the concept of a video game. Sora could help them with that. Immensely.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Okay you make a good point, but then they could change their position from "they are crazy" to "they are psychopaths under control of an unknown powerful race which has no regards for Imanity whatsoever".

It could be pointed out that not only they defeated an elf but a flugel too and one after another. If they refuse everyone will not think that they retreated from mere humans but from deceiving humans backed from an unknown powerful faction. Conversely if they accept, everyone will believe that from the very beginning the "unknown faction" was no other than the warbeasts themselves, which incidentally is the conclusion that Clammy reached.

It is probable that Sora knew that for the warbeasts either choice would be bad for them, whether they accept or not it would still be a problem.

This is also very true - I considered it for a while myself. Ultimately, I think that Sora made this gambit because he was absolutely convinced that he had guessed the Eastern Union's game correctly. Every other gamble stems from this impressive confidence/foolishness that Sora has. In other words, to Sora, it was already a foregone conclusion that the Eastern Union would accept, since any leaked information about their game would become a massive disadvantage, regardless of what the other races think of Sora's mental health. (Alternatively, he could arrange meetings with the other races and convince them of his mental acuity by playing games with them.) As a result of his train of thought, his reasoning is:

Premise 1) I am correct about the Eastern Union's game.
Premise 2) The Eastern Union does not want any information about their game to get out at all.
Conclusion) They will accept!

YMMV on how this characterisation affects the writing of the novel though.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by watisit

As Sora himself said, they had to accept the game as they needed to wipe his memory at all costs. And the werebeasts naturally know they are not the ones backing him. With the stakes that high they cannot refuse the game and say Sora is delusional for the reasons I posted before.

This is also a potential explanation.

[ChronoReverse]

The same "unknown powerful race which has no regards for Imanity whatsoever" already had Imanity defeat the the Elven backed Kurami as well as a Flugel. It takes a much larger jump in logic to assume they just wanted to get rid of Imanity especially if they really had full control of Blank to make them do suicidal things (in fact, they could just have Blank challenge their own strongest gamers and lose).

As for not wanting to let the knowledge get out, the Warbeasts JUST got a brutal reminder of what happens when they slip up in controlling the knowledge of their game. They had went easy on the previous Imanity king and now his successor is right in front of them pushing them to the edge.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by lolzorz

Premise 1) I am correct about the Eastern Union's game.
Premise 2) The Eastern Union does not want any information about their game to get out at all.
Conclusion) They will accept!

You know the more I think about it the more I think that Sora's objective was substantially different from that.

First off, the warbeasts' strategy does not rely on attack, only on defense. Basically they need someone to challenge them in order to play their game. That's because the rules state that it is up for the challenged to decide the game that it will be played. Take away that and the warbeasts are pretty much going to fail against monsters like the elves and the flugels.

So basically any time someone challenges them it is a rare occasion for them to actually win something and expand. They aren't very likely to refuse as it is.

On the other hand Imanity are known to be weak but more importantly warbeasts know that no matter which race is backing them no one can possibly know their game in that world.

So you see that under normal conditions the warbeasts would have been very likely to accept a challenge, because they can hardly imagine how could any opponent win against their perfect game. They'd probably think that some faction is using humans as mere sacrificial pawns in order to obtain intelligence, but they are pretty sure that even if they could gain something like that (like the elves) it wouldn't amount to much.


It would have been easy for Sora to bait them into accept by using their self-confidence and hubris and yet he did nothing but crushing it.
He showed them proof that they are not from that world, he showed them proof that they possess tools from the same technology that they are supposed to be the only keepers, he outright told them that he knows what their game is, and not only that, he claimed that, unlike any other race on that world, he is familiar with that kind of game and that he has absolute confidence that he can't possibly lose. All of that while being perfectly conscious that the warbeasts can tell if someone is bluffing. And the ambassador saw that he is not.


Sora might have given them a very strong reason to accept, but at the very same time he gave them a very strong reason not to accept.


I think Sora pretty much understood what kind of people the warbeasts are, they are cowards, he said that much. They only play a game that they are 100% sure that they can win. They play defensively, they never attack, they never risk anything. Will they really accept considering the situation?
If they accept and these humans that they know little about win for them it's the end, but if they refuse and they keep refusing any other challenge henceforth they have absolutely nothing to lose. they can turtle up and be content with what they have already conquered, and that's a lot already.


I think Sora's real objective was to put them in a state of unrest to cause them to go great length into to thinking whether it was best to accept or not. And at the same time to cause other factions to act in the meantime, which is something that likely happened already.

[Craxuan]

The Warbeasts ultimate objective at the time, I think, is to continue the way they are until they grow sufficiently strong enough that to issue a statement to the world - "Everyone of you can try to challenge us into a game, but we will never, ever lose, even if you're Exceed Rank 1."

They'll essentially be doing the same thing as what Blank did (except that their position would have been far stronger and less riskier, not to mention that the Warbeast are trying to bait enemies in whereas Blank is trying to keep them away), and they can keep taunting from there.

The other countries can stall all they want, but with exception to the Imanity and Elves (who have already challenged them and lost), they eventually have to issue a challenge or risk losing face to a Race lower at the Exceed Rank. It's like toppling Dominoes - as soon as one Race gave in to the taunts, challenged the Warbeasts and lost, the other Races are going to be pressured harder and harder to issue a challenge of their own.

It is then up to the Warbeasts to make the stakes as profitable as possible to themselves - hell, they can even go all out and offer their own Race Piece as Blank did and force their enemies to give an equally huge sacrifice. Obviously the Race Piece of an Exceed 14 isn't as valuable as anyone above them that they could request the challengers to stake a Race Piece in return, but it is enough. In a world where games are the only methods to decide a victory, to possess an 'invincible' game is a ridiculously powerful tool indeed.

[thundrakkon]

A lot of people keep mentioning that Blank beat the elves, but that's not the case. The only thing close was when they challenged Clammy, the human, who was "assisted" by an elf. We have yet seen Blank go head to head with an all out battle against an elf.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

A lot of people keep mentioning that Blank beat the elves, but that's not the case. The only thing close was when they challenged Clammy, the human, who was "assisted" by an elf. We have yet seen Blank go head to head with an all out battle against an elf.

When people say they beat the elves, they obviously aren't talking about the nation or species as a whole. The thing that gives elves their edge is their magic, which they did beat. Hence, they triumphed over the elves.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

A lot of people keep mentioning that Blank beat the elves, but that's not the case. The only thing close was when they challenged Clammy, the human, who was "assisted" by an elf. We have yet seen Blank go head to head with an all out battle against an elf.

Well to be fair, she didn't do squat. She was more a less a tool, the elf magic did all the work.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by GDB

When people say they beat the elves, they obviously aren't talking about the nation or species as a whole. The thing that gives elves their edge is their magic, which they did beat. Hence, they triumphed over the elves.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Well to be fair, she didn't do squat. She was more a less a tool, the elf magic did all the work.

Still, though, Blank has yet to confront openly an elf face to face, with no holds bar. The previous one was just an elf behind the scenes, which probably limited what the elf can actually do.

[Velsy]

Just caught up with 7 and 8 and what an interesting ending.. At first my intuition told me its not from the ware beasts, Its an attack of another force. But right at the end, Sora does say let the game begin. So hes accepted the challenge ? But I still ponder who? So me thinking its a surprise attack is probably negated.

And for Stephine... I've never really had anything against her, sure I laugh when she gets made a fool out of and receiving her just desserts. So I hadn't thought bad of her with the work she tries to do. But in these last 2 episodes I have changed my mind. What a frigging idiot she is! She lives up to her "a Steph". She held the most important key to humanities counter attack on the ware beast and kept refusing to give it to Blank for a long time. When Blank successfully defeated the elfs magic, then defeated a flugel, that's a huge momentum swing for the humans. Humans haven't tasted victory in a dam long time. Makes me annoyed thinking she wouldn't give it to Sora on personal reasons. Even Jubril has notice the momentum swing and is very interested in Blank (She gives off the same feeling of Rori from Gate (whos in my sig) Both were killing machines interested in the main characters from another world)

To think that the king did something great is kinda pleasing. Sure he may of been a fool but he left important intel behind that has given Blank a start in launching a counter attack. I guess Sora respected it as, you have loose something to gain something.

But for this last episode, I kinda like the arguing between Ino and Jubril. They really liked giving it to each other. Jubril made it very clear without the 10 commandments, she take his head for that

ps- I also noticed Clammy was stilling hanging around... according to the LN (I cant remember if it was mentioned in the anime) but she made a contract with the Elves. So being unable to forfil the contract, shouldn't be in alot of shit? What were the consequences of her failing the contract with the elves? surely they wont let her go?

[The Green One]

Go easy on poor Steph here. Sora and Shiro just bet the entirety of the Imanity race's rights on this game. If they lose they're condemning their race into becoming something worse than slaves and could very well wipe them out completely. If Sora and Shiro win the opposite happens and the Warbeasts will have their resources crippled and who knows how many Warbeasts are living there who will lose their own rights and become slaves instead. She's also been named as one of the players deciding the fate of this climatic game that's going to utterly screw over one of the races. This is squarely on HER shoulders.

Is there any wonder the poor thing is frightened by this? Any sane person would be feeling varying levels of fear and unease here. This isn't a regular poker game where you're betting a couple of thousand dollars here.

Countless lives are on the line and one side winning screws the other. I think she's fully justified to be losing her nerve here. I'm not saying she's right, but I can certainly sympathize and see where she's coming from.

[Velsy]

The one thing I don't like about this anime, is this piece thing.. I find it lame and annoying :/. They shouldn't have a chess piece imbued on there chests. I prefer the world is ruled by games, but isn't a game (its real fantasy life). I don't think the LN mention the race pieces either.

[Kaengel]

The novel actually mentions these pieces. That was something even Jibril never saw in her 6000 years of life.

[The Green One]

In the episode Fi mentioned that no one had ever risked their race piece ever in a game. The long lived elfs probably have the history documentation to back that claim up accurately.

No doubt the world itself would call what Shiro and Sora are doing as utterly insane.

[thundrakkon]

Doesn't the race piece subject the race to be under complete control by whoever owns it? Therefore, if Blank wins it, the Werebeasts can still live on as normal as long as Blank allows them to. I don't think other races can attack or kill them at will, since the whole race will belong to Blank, much like Jibril, but in a larger scale.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Velsy

The one thing I don't like about this anime, is this piece thing.. I find it lame and annoying :/. They shouldn't have a chess piece imbued on there chests. I prefer the world is ruled by games, but isn't a game (its real fantasy life). I don't think the LN mention the race pieces either.

The LN mentions the pieces, but nothing about them appearing on people's chests when Sora made the wager. I do believe it did suggest that the people knew it when it happened, though, just not specifically how.

And it's werebeasts, like with werewolf, even though it is pronounced like "ware". English is weird.

[c933103]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Doesn't the race piece subject the race to be under complete control by whoever owns it? Therefore, if Blank wins it, the Werebeasts can still live on as normal as long as Blank allows them to. I don't think other races can attack or kill them at will, since the whole race will belong to Blank, much like Jibril, but in a larger scale.

Sora&Shiro didn't ask warbeasts to bet their race pieces.

p.s. and "as long as Blank allows them to" is up to their desire, which, as warbreasts, you won't want others control your fate.

[Vocah]

Originally Posted by c933103

Sora&Shiro didn't ask warbeasts to bet their race pieces.

p.s. and "as long as Blank allows them to" is up to their desire, which, as warbreasts, you won't want others control your fate.

Is this even true, or is this just speculation from the different races?

@Velsy
My guess would be on her and her friend.
Sora mentioned someone with more backbone and I'm sure they didn't show them for fun.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by c933103

Sora&Shiro didn't ask warbeasts to bet their race pieces.

p.s. and "as long as Blank allows them to" is up to their desire, which, as warbreasts, you won't want others control your fate.

Sora was asking for everything the Werebeasts had... their lands, their people, and their properties. I'm guessing that pretty much includes their race piece. Besides, the conversation with Jibril near the end indicates that the race piece is their true goal in order to challenge Tet.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Sora was asking for everything the Werebeasts had... their lands, their people, and their properties. I'm guessing that pretty much includes their race piece. Besides, the conversation with Jibril near the end indicates that the race piece is their true goal in order to challenge Tet.

He's only challenging the ambassador, who as far as I can tell does not have ownership of their race piece. Further, he never actually said their race piece would be offered up, and specified only those on the current continent. As such, it'd only be those on former Imanity land that would fall under Imanity rule. Those in what looked to essentially be Europe would be fine... though much lesser in resources.