(L+CR) Black Bullet

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Arya

I don't see any common points between Rentaro and Eren let aside the fact that they both don't care about the strong girls that support them

Same voice actor.

[Xero8420]

Also, does that look like Rentaro don't care about Kisara, the "strong girl", supporting him? Did he ignore her? No, right? He did care deeply for her after all.

Geez, I don't know what people are trying to expect from Rentaro. One say he's not being considerate enough as a hero. And the other one was expecting him that he supposed to be a super duper awesome, cool, "tough as nail" badass who don't give shits into emotions and being realistic, but expressed disappointment when he turned out to be a "cheesy" wide-eyed idealistic hero and easily being emotional, thinking that "tears and emotions are for the weak" and "ideal is for fools". Otherwise, label him just the same as many of the other Kaji Yuki's characters. What kind of perception those people are having? Basing on the individualistic view of seeing what's cool or what's not by expectations as a way to praise or hate a character just to satisfy themselves.

But seriously, please don't get me started to rant out my frustrations of "how people expecting how a good character should be" off my chest. >__>

[frodonk]

hmm, mixed reactions on the last episode, it wasn't a conclusion to anything at all I think, but I'll take it.

[zero7090]

Originally Posted by Biohazardous

I If she can be that happy about killing someone and have no care like that she is not far at all from losing the capacity to love.

Originally Posted by ChampDream

Kisara sure like getting revenge, she enjoy it too much.

Oh god can you people look at her eyes and fucking tell that she is happy?

Spoiler for LOOK AT HER:

She was having a fcking mental break down. She was white, too white and pure like glass that why she shattered when she committed a grave crime like murder.

Ask yourself, who would panic after killing a person? The evil with no humanity or the misguided sould who took life in the heat of the moment?

Her brothers and grandfathers killed his parents and now blood is on her hand. She tread down the path of destruction. But she is still scared, torn between the 2 worlds with blood on her hand. She tried to find mental support from that wanker, all she need was a hug a pat yet the retard cant even do jack shit.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by zero7090

But she is still scared, torn between the 2 worlds with blood on her hand. She tried to find mental support from that wanker, all she need was a hug a pat yet the retard cant even do jack shit.

That. Very much that. In the "Rentarou's suckiest moments", this scene ranks very high. Then again, he's always been a hypocrite.

One can take his position, but Kisara was emotionally bleeding and unraveling. Cutting into her like this was the worst thing he could do, and he did it.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Also, does that look like Rentaro don't care about Kisara, the "strong girl", supporting him? Did he ignore her? No, right? He did care deeply for her after all.

I suppose you were referring to my previous words. So I'll quote two posters who wrote just after your post that summarize the problem I have with Rentaro.

Originally Posted by zero7090

Oh god can you people look at her eyes and fucking tell that she is happy?

Spoiler for LOOK AT HER:

She was having a fcking mental break down. She was white, too white and pure like glass that why she shattered when she committed a grave crime like murder.

Ask yourself, who would panic after killing a person? The evil with no humanity or the misguided sould who took life in the heat of the moment?

Her brothers and grandfathers killed his parents and now blood is on her hand. She tread down the path of destruction. But she is still scared, torn between the 2 worlds with blood on her hand. She tried to find mental support from that wanker, all she need was a hug a pat yet the retard cant even do jack shit.

Originally Posted by Mentar

That. Very much that. In the "Rentarou's suckiest moments", this scene ranks very high. Then again, he's always been a hypocrite.

One can take his position, but Kisara was emotionally bleeding and unraveling. Cutting into her like this was the worst thing he could do, and he did it.

A friend in need is a friend indeed, says an old proverb, obviously it was the last episode of a rushed show in which everything but loli is side dishes, so you could say that they just didn't handle it well, but he did turn his back on her, in her hardest moment. And he had been warned out twice IIRC.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Mentar

That. Very much that. In the "Rentarou's suckiest moments", this scene ranks very high. Then again, he's always been a hypocrite.

One can take his position, but Kisara was emotionally bleeding and unraveling. Cutting into her like this was the worst thing he could do, and he did it.

Pretty much this. I don't realy understand what is Rentarou trying to do here. Didn't he promised he would help her in here revenge? What he expected she will do, what she trained for whole years? For someone who knows Kisara so long, he should show more understanding than this.

[G147]

It's not that Rentaro doesn't understand her, he understands but he can't agree with her actions. Rentaro's goal is to make a world where the Cursed Children can be viewed as human, but if Rentaro achieved that world by killing people who opposed him or a nuisance to his plans, then it would make him no better than Saitama or Kikunojyo. And if things go badly, it may even caused more bloodshed than before.
Also the Tendou adopted Rentaro after he was separated from his parents, from Rentaro's point of view, the Tendou aren't only his second family but his benefactor, especially Kikunojyo who rescued him. So no matter how displeased Rentaro is with Kikunojyo, a part of Rentaro will still respect him and care for him.
In the end there's no right and wrong in this or who is to be blamed. Kisara did what she think was right even with Rentaro's objection. Rentaro constantly sacrifice himself for others even when Kisara objects him of doing so. They just have different ideology.
From Rentaro's ideology, he's not wrong, assuming if Kisara successfully finishes her revenge? Then what, would she be happy? Probably no. And for every action there's a reaction, Kisara can kill off her brothers, her grandfather, and the result would be her niece or nephew would seek revenge on her instead, so in the end, the position of hunter and hunted reverses and more bloodshed would ensue.
From Kisara's view, she's also right, she lived up till now just for her revenge, no one can say that she doesn't have the right to do so. Plus, the person she killed truly deserved such punishment from his actions. Kisara's brother nearly caused everyone's death and took the lives of many initiators and promoters. He himself deserves that death sentence.
So Kisara's action can be considered as justified and unjustified at the same time. But in the end, humans are evil beings, there will always be people like Saitama or the Tendous appearing every now and then, so no matter how much Kisara kills in the end, she'll just be trapped inside an endless killing chain, Rentaro doesn't want her to suffer such a fate, so Rentaro is also correct in not supporting Kisara's vengeance.

[Tenzen12]

Rentarou: "You know, Kisara I know you wanted do it for years . I didn't never told you it's bad idea, because it would hurt you and to get closer to you I even promised to help and supported you in your plans ... but after I let you do what I knew was your intent from begenning in front of my eyes, you realy suck."

No Rentarou, it's your fault as much, if not more, if you were man you would take responsibility instead of running away.

[Mentar]

G147: Lots of excellent points. However, and this is my primary problem with Rentarou, he should scream and yell less and rather shut up and use his brain more. Not just in this scene, but throughout the ENTIRE show. If he wants to change Kisara's mind, he will hardly manage to do that by shouting at her when she is having a breakdown and clearly in need of comfort from him. Comfort which she always gave him when he was unraveling, by the way.

Too bad that we're having a break here. Really looking forward to Season 2, or LN translations (whatever is done first)

[G147]

But if Rentaro comforts Kisara now, it would be signifying that he supports Kisara and this would be help boil Kisara's desire for revenge and plunge Kisara deeper into the hell that she is already in, that's why Rentaro can't comfort her. In this situation, comforting Kisara is literally pushing Kisara into a pits of hell of endless killing.

[Mentar]

Those are two different things. Comforting someone to reinforce that you care about them is one thing, supporting someone's goals is something else. First the pain, then the reason. Rentarou yelling at her accomplished nothing but

1) hurting her, adding bitterness to her feelings in this critical time
2) isolating her, signifying that in the time of crisis, she could not count on him

If you honestly think that this was the best way to stop her from continuing her path of revenge, then we have to agree to disagree. It was cruel, it was impulsive, self-important, hypocritical and stupid. In other words: Very much Rentarou when he is confronted with something bad.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by G147

But if Rentaro comforts Kisara now, it would be signifying that he supports Kisara and this would be help boil Kisara's desire for revenge and plunge Kisara deeper into the hell that she is already in, that's why Rentaro can't comfort her. In this situation, comforting Kisara is literally pushing Kisara into a pits of hell of endless killing.

Problem is that he did exactly that for years. I wouldn't be suprised if Kisara gave up long time ago without Satomi by her side. Trying wash his hands over it now is pure hypocrisy.

Yep, it's so much in-character for our hero

[G147]

You say that Rentaro is at fault for not comforting Kisara, supposing if Rentaro does comfort Kisara what would happen, what should Rentaro do, what words should he use to comfort Kisara?
You did well. They'll just make Kisara more into her revenge.
Please stop killing. They'll just end up arguing.
Please stop crying. Kisara would view that as an insult.
Just quietly hug her. Kisara might think that Rentaro is just pitying her and they'll just argue.
Do nothing. Kisara would feel abandoned.

Comforting someone doesn't mean or show that you care, there's also the situation and time for doing so. Some times the only way to show care is to oppose them.
Should Rentaro comfort her now and yet continues to oppose her vengeance, they'll end up becoming enemy and kill each other. Also if Rentaro didn't do what he did to Kisara after she killed her brother, Kisara would just end up more deranged from her personal guilt, by having someone close and with opposite ideology like Rentaro opposing her, Kisara can at least find a hint of comfort that she did something righteous that Rentaro couldn't do.

Of course i'm not saying that Rentaro is right for not comforting Kisara. From a neutral view. It's quite obvious that Kisara wants Rentaro to comfort her even if he isn't sincere. That's because Rentaro is the person closest to her, and the one person she wants to support and fully understands her, so it's quite obvious that Kisara is disappointed that Rentaro didn't comfort her much less accept her actions. So by not comforting Kisara, Rentaro is also hurting her in the process, since the one person she wished to have a full support on didn't do so.

[Tenzen12]

Yeah having your loved ones look down on you and pointing finger, will definitely help you not feel more guilty... Oh wait! In metter of fact it does!

But realy, reverse psychology doesn't work with people one trust deeply.

[lolzorz]

I see Rentaro getting plenty of flak here. I understand why though. Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as objective morality. That is why I like Black Bullet as a series - what is right and what is wrong? The events which occur in Black Bullet always centre around such questions, inciting very thought-provoking discussions.

In a series with such blurry lines, how do we judge the characters, then? By our own moral standards? By the in-universe's moral standards? A difficult question. Personally, I think you can only observe their actions, their behaviour, their thoughts, and draw your own conclusions from there.

It's problematic to talk what the characters should or should not do, because then we'd be imposing our own views on the characters. Not that there's any problem with that, just that I find it takes away from my understanding of the content when I do so. For example, the treatment of the Cursed Children. Instead of thinking, "Wow, these people are assholes, to treat young girls like that. They shouldn't do so!", I try to consider their actions within the context of the world. Personally, I think that yes, it's incredibly inhumane to throw 10 year old girls out of society, beat them up simply because you know they will recover, and basically treating them worse than animals. Instead, consider the pain and loss of people who have experienced the Gastrea War. Facing giant monsters was very real to them, monsters which killed people whom they know and love. They still live in trepidation of Gastrea today, and these girls who live in the midst of them have the potential to turn into those very same monsters. Irrational, yes, but that's how people are. People are hypocritical and irrational. While I may not personally condone the actions of these characters, hey, it's fiction. I can understand where they're coming from if I think about it. If I don't stop at just imposing my moral views on this fictional world, I can gain a deeper understanding of the conflicts going on in it. That is my takeaway from the material.

This applies to the main characters as well. Rentaro is only human, albeit a pretty idealistic one. In the kind of crapsack world he lives in, he's unbelievably optimistic. Then again, it's most likely a mask for him to tolerate living, since he seems like he could break down at any moment if, say, Enju dies or something. He's seen the darkness of the world, and is desperately trying to find the light worth living for. He hates all this distrust, all this killing, because he wants to escape it. He clings to his supports in order to maintain his sanity.

OK, so he just witnessed Kisara killing her brother. She's not stable. She's been living her whole life for this revenge. She's also been one of the anchors tying Rentaro to his morality. On the other hand, Rentaro's been with her since forever. He knows her desire for revenge. He most definitely loves her. So why doesn't he comfort her?

Personally, I think, yes, he should have. You can think he's an unfeeling idiotic hypocrite. You can think that he should be less talk and more action. You can think that he should have made his intentions clear to Kisara from the beginning. But why does he not do so? Between Kisara and his so-called morals, which is more important to him?

Rentaro is a deeply flawed character. He's not perfect. He's a hypocrite. He's extremely selfish. Then again, to a degree, who isn't? That's why I like Rentaro as a character. When I look at Rentaro, I see a character who, after experiencing the world around him, has practically given up all hope apart from those he considers dear to him. He would give his life to protect those he loves, because apart from them, there is nothing else worth living for. In order to maintain his sanity, he keeps an impossibly idealistic view of morality.

When Kisara kills her own brother, Rentaro's morality anchor and his own morals clash so horribly it's painful to watch. The fact that he can't immediately comfort Kisara is evidence of the intensity of his internal conflict. He can't just suppress his morals to help Kisara because, from what I understand, if he ever lost one of his two support pillars he would collapse. He knew that Kisara would eventually take revenge, but he has been evading his eyes from the truth this whole time. Only now, with the actual deed done before him, does he realise the true impact. Rentaro is self-contradictory and deceives himself all the time. That is what makes him fun to watch for me.

[Craxuan]

The thing is, Rentarou is just not strong enough at the time, as a human being living in that kind of time, to suffer this kind of responsibility. Not at the time at least.

How many of you have seen your wife or girlfriend screaming about things far less serious, and chose to go against her wishes or just outright ignore her until everything 'settles down'? Let's be honest: Unless you went through what Rentarou's life yourself, there's no way you can judge his action, and even less scorn him for it.

'Oh, he should've done this and this, that useless scumbag'. I cannot stand seeing people defaming characters when they most like would act in a similar manner, if not far worse. Hell, some of you would outright cut all ties with Kisara had you been in Rentarou's position. I know myself as the coward who, in his position, would be too scared to do anything at all and just pretend that it never happened - how many of you would dare to admit the same? At least he was brave enough to make his standpoint clear to Kisara.

[Arya]

Just saying, but he could have hugged her whispering that he would have done whatever it was needed to stop her going forward that dark path, even kill her if needed.
He instead basically jumped already to the last part.

[G147]

Of course i'm not saying that Rentaro is right for not comforting Kisara. From a neutral view. It's quite obvious that Kisara wants Rentaro to comfort her even if he isn't sincere that's why she hugged him. That's because Rentaro is the person closest to her, and the one person she wants to support and fully understands her, so it's quite obvious that Kisara is disappointed that Rentaro didn't comfort her much less accept her actions. So by not comforting Kisara, Rentaro is also hurting her in the process, since the one person she wished to have a full support on didn't do so.
Like i said from the start it's the difference in ideology, if you stand from Rentaro's view, his reaction is correct, if you stand from Kisara's thoughts, her reaction and wishes are correct as well. Rentaro wants Kisara to forget her vengeance and have a happy life, Kisara wants to have her revenge and Rentaro's support in doing that. In the end, it's just two people who care deeply for each other doing something the other didn't want them to.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by lolzorz

Personally, I think, yes, he should have. You can think he's an unfeeling idiotic hypocrite. You can think that[B] he should be less talk and more action. You can think that he should have made his intentions clear to Kisara from the beginning. But why does he not do so? Between Kisara and his so-called morals, which is more important to him?
Rentaro is a deeply flawed character. He's not perfect. He's a hypocrite. He's extremely selfish. Then again, to a degree, who isn't? That's why I like Rentaro as a character. When I look at Rentaro, I see a character who, after experiencing the world around him, has practically given up all hope apart from those he considers dear to him. He would give his life to protect those he loves, because apart from them, there is nothing else worth living for. In order to maintain his sanity, he keeps an impossibly idealistic view of morality.

When Kisara kills her own brother, Rentaro's morality anchor and his own morals clash so horribly it's painful to watch. The fact that he can't immediately comfort Kisara is evidence of the intensity of his internal conflict. He can't just suppress his morals to help Kisara because, from what I understand, if he ever lost one of his two support pillars he would collapse. He knew that Kisara would eventually take revenge, but he has been evading his eyes from the truth this whole time. Only now, with the actual deed done before him, does he realise the true impact. Rentaro is self-contradictory and deceives himself all the time. That is what makes him fun to watch for me.

You beutifuly listed all my complains and even aknowledged them . Thank you. As person he suck big time and right now I feel strong urge start scorn him. To be honest my biggest problem with him is that he was unwiling decide between his moralit and Kisara so long it came to this (and doesn't even aknowledge his role in whole deal)

In other hand I never said he suck as character