Character Discussion - C.C

[Var]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Obviously, but that doesn't mean she won't get a large role. She is still one of the main characters in this anime.

It doesn't mean she will either.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Her identity? How did she end up as witch? What is it that she wants? Character development?

Things she mostly doesn't remember last I checked. The only real thing is the contract's true purpose.

Originally Posted by Used Can

This is why I said we do not know what will happen once it becomes stronger. All we can do is speculate, but we barely have anything to base those speculations on.

Well we can safely assume that some possibilities won't be happening, such as flowers sprouting out of Lelouch's eye.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Did we know there would be a season 2 back in the first episodes (I'm asking since I never looked at all these kinds of information back then)? Also, I do not remember any important hint before Mao's appearance. Anyhow, we do not need another Mao. We haven't even reached the half of the season to see what will happen with Lelouch's Geass. C.C. hinted it'll become stronger; let's see what happens.

Yes, it was, from my knowledge, almost always planned out to be 50 and most certainly by that point it was set. We'll simply have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Isn't the name of the anime Code Geass (which, technically, started when a mysterious girl gave Lelouch that power)? That, and, all these battles are not as important as the Geass and all the mysteries around it. Lelouch started this rebellion precisely because of those mysteries.

The name is the name Lelouch gave to the power. He dubbed it Geass, it is the code name for the power. The name is still Lelouch of the Rebellion though. Lelouch started his rebellion because he had a goal, the Geass only expediated the process, a point he made clear in S1.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Obviously, at the beginning, we'd get information little by little, but at this point, when the mysteries should be solved, I do not think that will happen.

For it to be revealed at a higher rate would require the story shift away from Lelouch's battle, which I don't see happening.

[Dann of Thursday]

Basically, the Order and everyone in it take precedent over C.C. in terms of importance in the plot.

[thedonkiluminati]

Originally Posted by Var

It doesn't mean she will either.


For it to be revealed at a higher rate would require the story shift away from Lelouch's battle, which I don't see happening.

I disagree with your opinion that mysteries surrounding the geass aren't as important as the rebellion. I think they're just as important. I see information about the geass being revealed without them totally shifting focus away from the rebellion.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, the mysteries could be related to whether or not the rebellion succeeds.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Var

It doesn't mean she will either.

No, but it just happens that main characters tend to have large roles. That doesn't mean she'll have one, as you said.

Originally Posted by Var

Things she mostly doesn't remember last I checked. The only real thing is the contract's true purpose.

That doesn't mean we won't get to know about them, or that she won't get to remember important things, since those are clue to who she really is, and many other things about her. Also, once again, character development.

Originally Posted by Var

Well we can safely assume that some possibilities won't be happening, such as flowers sprouting out of Lelouch's eye.

He won't be shooting lasers, or start copying his enemies techniques either.

Originally Posted by Var

The name is the name Lelouch gave to the power. He dubbed it Geass, it is the code name for the power.

No, he said he heard the name Geass when he made the contract, and that's why he named it that way.

Originally Posted by Var

The name is still Lelouch of the Rebellion though. Lelouch started his rebellion because he had a goal, the Geass only expediated the process, a point he made clear in S1.

Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. Code Geass is the main name of the series. Also, he had that goal because of some conspiracy, and that conspiracy seems to be related with Geass. No conspiracy, no rebellion. No Geass, and Lelouch, quite possibly, wouldn't have been able to advance as much as he has had.

Originally Posted by Var

For it to be revealed at a higher rate would require the story shift away from Lelouch's battle, which I don't see happening.

It doesn't need to shift away completely from it. All it would mean is the battles wouldn't have most of the focus anymore, that's all.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Well, the mysteries could be related to whether or not the rebellion succeeds.

That isn't likely is it, given how C.C didn't care if Lelouch was Zero right? The rebellion, the war, all feel like proxies for something much bigger >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, you're right. It's probably some huge chess game and they're all just pieces being controlled by C.C. and V.V.. Maybe everything with Kallen is just manipulation on her part.

[KrimzonStriker]

It seems inconsequential to make nice with Kallen, you're being paranoid now Dann >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

Maybe it's not that way. Emotional manipulation can go a long way and C.C. seems like the type who would be good at that. If it keeps Lelouch in her control she could do anything.

[KrimzonStriker]

Like I said, you're being paranoid Dann <_<

[Var]

Originally Posted by Used Can

That doesn't mean we won't get to know about them, or that she won't get to remember important things, since those are clue to who she really is, and many other things about her. Also, once again, character development.

I somehow don't think alot of those past events will be recalled; they seem like a price paid for her immortality and power. I'm certain it can be overturned but I simply don't see it happening. They can do character development as they have been doing in R2 so far, by having her interact with others more.

Originally Posted by Used Can

No, he said he heard the name Geass when he made the contract, and that's why he named it that way.

Ahh, my mistake then.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. Code Geass is the main name of the series. Also, he had that goal because of some conspiracy, and that conspiracy seems to be related with Geass. No conspiracy, no rebellion. No Geass, and Lelouch, quite possibly, wouldn't have been able to advance as much as he has had.

One thing: No Geass, no dead Marianne, no crippled Nunally, and, if it is revealed that C2 and Marianne had some plot together, I can't see that as being good development for her in the eyes of Lelouch. So without the Geass there's no reason for the Rebellion if we follow that logic, as Nunally and he would still be living happily.

Originally Posted by Used Can

It doesn't need to shift away completely from it. All it would mean is the battles wouldn't have most of the focus anymore, that's all.

We'll have to wait and see.

As for names: Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring. Even with the name; the story did little to tell you about what the ring actually was other than a brief backstory and 'its power'. Its not very different from what Geass is doing. To actually find out about the origin of the ring and Sauron, by proxy, you'd need to read other material.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Var

I somehow don't think alot of those past events will be recalled; they seem like a price paid for her immortality and power. I'm certain it can be overturned but I simply don't see it happening. They can do character development as they have been doing in R2 so far, by having her interact with others more.

I think they'll be important; otherwise, they wouldn't have showed them to us. One can say they were just shown so that we could have glimpse of her story, but that left some questions. I think, in order to get to really know her, we have to see her past, what kind of person she was before she became a witch. Also, we'd probably be able to see in a better light why she became a witch, instead of, say, someone just explained it.

Originally Posted by Var

One thing: No Geass, no dead Marianne, no crippled Nunally, and, if it is revealed that C2 and Marianne had some plot together, I can't see that as being good development for her in the eyes of Lelouch. So without the Geass there's no reason for the Rebellion if we follow that logic, as Nunally and he would still be living happily.

That's precisely my point. Take away the conspiracy and the mysteries, and we wouldn't have had a story at all. Those two things are the base of this story, even if it seems to revolve mostly around battles (I'm not saying the battles aren't important, by the way). Also, I've already stated I'd like Lelouch to become enraged once he finds about Marianne talking with C.C.. I'm quite sure they have had good reasons all along, but, all the same, conflict between partners is always interesting to see, and I'd like to see how they solve it.

Originally Posted by Var

As for names: Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring. Even with the name; the story did little to tell you about what the ring actually was other than a brief backstory and 'its power'. Its not very different from what Geass is doing. To actually find out about the origin of the ring and Sauron, by proxy, you'd need to read other material.

Yes, but in LotR we didn't need to know much about Sauron, besides him being an evil King, that, and that if he would have recovered the Ring, mankind and other species would have been doomed. The information we were given about the rings and Sauron in the 3 books was more than enough (e.g. we know Sauron made those rings). The Silmarillion just expanded on those things, but it wasn't as if the stories in the 3 books were missing anything of high importance or crucial to be able to understand the story. Code Geass, on the other hand, without the mysteries solved, would be incomplete.

Geass is different from LotR, since characters like C.C. and V.V. are active, unlike Sauron. Also, unlike the rings, the power of Geass seems to be related to something deeper. (That, and we knew where the rings came from, and what their purpose was from the first book.)

PS: Lelouch of the Rebellion = LotR = Lord of the Rings XD (Yeah, I did notice that too before.)

PSS: We've fallen in the realm of speculation, and into the I'd-likes. So, for the time being, until we're giving more information, I'm dropping this discussion. Have fun guys.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Used Can

I think they'll be important; otherwise, they wouldn't have showed them to us. One can say they were just shown so that we could have glimpse of her story, but that left some questions. I think, in order to get to really know her, we have to see her past, what kind of person she was before she became a witch. Also, we'd probably be able to see in a better light why she became a witch, instead of, say, someone just explained it.

Well our opinions clearly differ here, so I think its best we leave it at that .

Originally Posted by Used Can

That's precisely my point. Take away the conspiracy and the mysteries, and we wouldn't have had a story at all. Those two things are the base of this story, even if it seems to revolve mostly around battles (I'm not saying the battles aren't important, by the way). Also, I've already stated I'd like Lelouch to become enraged once he finds about Marianne talking with C.C.. I'm quite sure they have had good reasons all along, but, all the same, conflict between partners is always interesting to see, and I'd like to see how they solve it.

I'm not really saying its the battles that will lose out for the mystery of Geass, more like the development of other finer plot points may get lost somewhere if to much of the story shifts to the mystery. I'd like to see what will happen when Lelouch does find out, even with good reason, I don't think he'll be happy at all. Because, no matter how you spin it, he was being used in a way.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Yes, but in LotR we didn't need to know much about Sauron, besides him being an evil King, that, and that if he would have recovered the Ring, mankind and other species would have been doomed. The information we were given about the rings and Sauron in the 3 books was more than enough (e.g. we know Sauron made those rings). The Silmarillion just expanded on those things, but it wasn't as if the stories in the 3 books were missing anything of high importance or crucial to be able to understand the story. Code Geass, on the other hand, without the mysteries solved, would be incomplete.

LotR didn't reveal anything about Sauron, in a sense it left him as an incomplete character who was just 'evil'. Silmarilion and the other books filled in the gap, there were plenty of incomplete elements within LoTR. I didn't say they wouldn't solve the mystery (that is V2's plot purpose), more that they wouldn't devote more than the sporadic additions to the puzzle till the very end where everything falls into place.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Geass is different from LotR, since characters like C.C. and V.V. are active, unlike Sauron. Also, unlike the rings, the power of Geass seems to be related to something deeper. (That, and we knew where the rings came from, and what their purpose was from the first book.)

Sauron was active, he simply acted through different people. Just like C2 and V2. We may have known about the rings, but we knew nothing about Sauron or very, very little. And the story of LoTR ties back to things far deeper than just Sauron and the rings. Much like code geass, it ties into the god(s).

Originally Posted by Used Can

PSS: We've fallen in the realm of speculation, and into the I'd-likes. So, for the time being, until we're giving more information, I'm dropping this discussion. Have fun guys.

Agreed. We're going to end up talking in circles.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Var

Because, no matter how you spin it, he was being used in a way.

He's done somewhat the same with the OotBK at the beginning. He offered them help, which proved to be useful, and they accepted. He didn't tell them precisely why they were created. Yes, he didn't lie to them, but he didn't tell them the full truth either. It is the same with C.C.. She offered him power at the cost he'd grant her one of her wishes, and he accepted. She hasn't lied to him, but she hasn't told him all she knows either (although, Lelouch knows she knows more than she has told him, like the deal with the Aries palace). Both the OotBK and Lelouch have being acting by their own accord. (Not that anything of these mean Lelouch will take the matter any more calmly, though.)

Originally Posted by Var

LotR didn't reveal anything about Sauron, in a sense it left him as an incomplete character who was just 'evil'.

True, but even if he was the main villain, he wasn't a main character. We didn't need much information about him, aside from his ambitions and his relevance for the plot. It's the same for the Emperor, and up to some extent V.V.. Do we need to have information about their pasts? No, we only need to know what they are doing, and their purpose. C.C. is a different deal, since she is a main character (and the second most popular one), and as such, needs development.

C.C. doesn't only need development as a character related to the plot's mysteries (which is the only part you've been relating her with), but as a human one as well. Actually, I'd say the latter is the most important for her, since, initially, she was presented as a seemingly cold character, but eventually, we realised there's more to what meets the eye. Basically, C.C. really is many of those things we haven't seen.

Anyway, I'm not the one who writes this story, and for all I know, they may decide on not expanding on her character (which I highly doubt, but let's assume there's that possibility). As I've already said, let us see how things are developed before we continue this discussion.

Originally Posted by Var

Much like code geass, it ties into the god(s).

They are pretty much a new concept in the story; so, it is nothing weird we barely know anything about them. And no, I am not expecting full details about their stories either, just who they are, what their purposes are, and what relevance they hold for the story.

Now, I'm seriously gone from this discussion. (Unless it doesn't involve speculation, that is.)

[Dann of Thursday]

I'm not expecting the whole thing with the Gods to get much explanation except for how C.C. is related to it. I'm not even expecting these Gods to appear in any sort of form or interact on their own accord(though for some reason I would love to see them actually interfere).

The mysteries surrounding the Geass and how this is related to C.C. will likely get addressed. They may not explain everything about those scenes in her past, but I would expect to at least get the basics on how she became the way she is, who she was originally, and of course that name of hers. I'm really wondering when that will come up. I would like to have Lelouch actually say it out loud for us to hear this time, but they could do it some other way if they wanted.

I still don't get what is up with that name being so important they would have to change the relationship charts (if they comment was completely serious).

As for her personal development as a person, what's left to address actually?

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

As for her personal development as a person, what's left to address actually?

Several things, I think. We've seen some of the characters' raisons d'être, but we're yet to see hers. Also, although we've seen glimpses of the warm side of hers, it has been quite seldom. She has also stated to be a person who's been lonely for most of her life, and in a way, she seems to try people not to become too attached to her (at least, this the impression I got when she asked Lelouch if he was becoming attached to her, right after he saved her from Mao); I think a development in that area would be her getting somewhat more involved with people. There's also the bit in one of the drama CDs when she said she was a captive of the world (or something along those lines), a development there would be C.C. dealing with those restraints.

Things like what kind of person she was before she became a witch would also shed light on her human side, as well.

Not that I'm expecting every one of these things to be covered, but some would be good.

[Dann of Thursday]

I suppose that would be the revealing of her contract then?

That more warm side that seems to be concerned about Lelouch (she denied it when speaking with Marianne which seems to be something she does often though her little scene with Kaguya contradicted her words) may come up more, though I have to wonder what the point of it would be at this stage. Her interaction with Lelouch has been very much held back and I am not too sure of the current standing of it. Everytime it seems like they get closer, all of it gets completely dropped and goes back to normal. Her interactions don't need to be restrained to him, though I think they can be the most meaningful and important.

I think she has been getting more used to that idea of freedom that Lelouch wanted her to feel (hence why he bought those clothes so she would stop with the restraining suit).

Those aspects of her past will be very telling I think. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a rather different person than the one we have come to see. I wonder how Lelouch would react to seeing her like that originally if he goes through another of those image flashes. I have seen hints and such that she had someone in the past like a lover or something. I think this person could factor into her wish or something possibly.

I hope some of it gets covered as well. Not anytime soon of course, though I hope they don't rush it.

[Used Can]

^See mate, you can think positively. *pat* *pat*

Just watch things until the end, and if you didn't like the ending... well, you can be depressed then. XD

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I wouldn't be surprised if she was a rather different person than the one we have come to see.

Hmm... I wouldn't know since there's not enough material, but that scene after Lelouch thanked her, and her reaction after Lelouch called her name were pretty... I wouldn't know how to say it, but that showed a glimpse of a warm side of hers.

[Dann of Thursday]

I'm in a pretty good mood at the moment. My first day at my new job went well and I watched Baccano!, which always cheers me up for some reason.

Meh, I like to be prepared in advance. I was like this through the second half of TTGL, got hopeful within the last two episodes, and got screwed over in the last one. I hope it's not too depressing, whatever it is.

I thought so as well with those scenes, though I detected a hint of nostalgia from her with those scenes. I kept getting the feeling she was trying to remember someone through Lelouch. That line when she spoke of someone calling her by her name indicates someone close to her.

[kk2extreme]

i wish cc could leave a direct decendant or two by the end of CG, hopefully with lulu