2010-07-15, 15:21 | Link #8221 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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On the other hand... two blocks away. While I'm hesitant to tell people to get over the death of a loved one, I'm much less so about telling them to make a detour if it bothers them so. |
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2010-07-15, 15:28 | Link #8222 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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2010-07-15, 15:34 | Link #8223 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And no, what I'm saying is, do the American muslims need the grief this mosque's going to bring? That it's already bringing, for that matter? |
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2010-07-15, 15:39 | Link #8224 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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It absolutely isn't a straw man, your claiming vindication through the "grief" it may cause 9/11 families but the fact is worse has been done to them, and the fact that you paint this mosque as the pinnacle of pain that they will suffer is absurd. Also the grief that muslims will take, is exactly the same type of grief blacks took in diners in Greensboro, NC, should they have just taken it, and not fought for their rights to be treated as equals? This is a question of freedom to do and associate as one pleases, no other peoples rights are being violated.
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2010-07-15, 16:11 | Link #8225 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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The way the right chose to characterize the issue... pretty much demonstrates everything that's wrong with the American right today.
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2010-07-15, 16:22 | Link #8226 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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So are these Cordoba guys the dumb ones or are the ones screaming hellfire and Jesus the dumb ones...? |
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2010-07-15, 16:23 | Link #8227 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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- Ground Zero is hardly the whole of America, or even the whole of New York. They could have put their mosque a little further. Or waited a bit longer. - I'm not arguing for any kind of legal action. All I'm saying is, they could have abstained, and maybe they should have. Black people had to make a stand to get their rights, or nothing would have changed. Muslims already have their rights, and - this is where I must confess my lack of knowledge of the American situation - I think that as long as they live peacefully and don't make waves, they'll only become more integrated. And if they had to make a stand, maybe this place isn't the right one. Do we have to pick one? |
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2010-07-15, 16:27 | Link #8229 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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Of course it might not be a good idea to extend that hand when you're going to get slapped or even bitten back in return. Quote:
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2010-07-15, 16:39 | Link #8230 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Muslims like blacks are still to some extent treated as second class citizens, whether it's racial profiling by police or just xenophobic fears perpetuated by the 24 hour news cycle, Muslims and for that matter anyone in this country should not have to worry about living a life within the rules of this established society while watching their backs. I mean should atheists choose to not espouse their views because this nation is viewed as a christian nation by some? I'm for civil liberties over any type of fear mongering or xenophobia or even homophobia. I'll be honest I'm uncomfortable around gay people, but I still believe in their right to live their lives as so they choose and that's why I believe each and every person as long as they follow the rule of law should be entitled to equal opportunity.
Let's not forget that Fox and Friends said that the new space agency that features a comet is a secret islamic symbol that the President is a secret muslim. If you look at the rhetoric of the tea parties, and their claims that this president is not a valid president, you can see a lot of deep seated hatred for those that don't fight the white christian image. I mean just look at the rants about how this president is a communist and how he's a kenyan, which shows you the utter lack of fact based arguments and instead these groups attempt to appeal to the emotional side because their arguments are not based in fact and are in fact irrational vehicles of hate. |
2010-07-15, 16:41 | Link #8231 | |
Socially Inept
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Retracing my steps.....
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2010-07-15, 17:00 | Link #8232 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2010-07-15, 17:09 | Link #8233 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Atheists, Christians, homosexuals, transgender, transvestites, and even normal joes should be allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. So what if I wear a shirt that says "there is no god" because only atheists wear shirts that are offensive. Lets not forget that Christians wear crap like, "Gays are sinners" etc. Just because it offends does not make it alright to silence a group. I'm all for PC culture because using derogatory names like nigger, chink, wetback, guido (only non jersey italian americans), and etc are meant to perpetuate this notion that if your not white your not right makes sense but going so far as to say you shouldn't offend somebody just means that we as humans should never reveal our true selves because someone will find something offensive about you no matter what. Should I not speak my native tongue outloud because this is America and some people find others not speaking english offensive? I mean this argument is trite as best because we as human beings will find things we don't like about other people. Should baldies be forced to wear wigs because I find bald heads offensive and incendiary, because they mock those of us with hair? (I really don't) I mean to add to the shirt, what if that shirt means more to me than a symbol of atheism but a symbol of a lost friend that once wore that shirt, what if wearing that shirt is to honor the memory of somebody and not the message of the shirt, we humans are tied to sentimentalities that aren't always so cut and dry. |
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2010-07-15, 17:32 | Link #8234 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I guess what my POV boils down to is, one should pick his fights carefully. Offending for the sake of giving offense is just as retarded as perpetually living in fear of giving offense. |
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2010-07-15, 17:48 | Link #8235 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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2010-07-15, 17:51 | Link #8236 | |
blinded by blood
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Edit: it's not the mosque that's offensive, it's how the left-leaning politicians have latched onto it as a way to show "tolerance and understanding" only really all they're trying to do is say a big "fuck you" to Republicans/Tea Party/etc. I'm all for tolerance and understanding and I'm all for religions having places of worship but I am totally against using religion to further political agendas. Separation of church and state and all that.
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2010-07-15, 17:53 | Link #8237 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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I'm not sure where this characterization of "offending for the sake of giving offense" came from or why anyone would think that was the intent of the people behind the proposal. Seems to me like it would be better to listen to what the originating voices have to say, rather than the distorted backlash against it. And that seems far more benign.
edit: (written before the edit above)
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2010-07-15, 17:55 | Link #8238 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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I really don't think you are, there is a separation of church and state, the fact that the mosque is being built with private money shows that, under your idea of separation of church and state no house of worship should be allowed period. What political message is being sent here? I swear you are an enigma of hypocrisies and contradictions that just don't make any sense at all. The Catholic Church keeps sticking it's foot in it's mouth, first protecting child molesting priests, now condemning women priests what next? The holocaust was needed? The earth is 6,000 years old? Last edited by Nosauz; 2010-07-15 at 18:17. |
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