Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Jerseykid]

They're dropping like flies!

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by cheesie

Judging by the massive complaints in this thread, I found this remark slightly humorous seeing that character development in the anime is apparently one of the biggest issues posters seemed to have. It's highly likely that any strong attachment to the characters at this point are stemmed from game posters who has had four games worth of character build up, that it greatly influences their perspectives of the characters when it brings them back to Episode 1 once more. If I remember the reactions back then, the readers were quite indifferent to the cast way back in the beginning too, which is understandable as the story had just begun to kick into gear.

Actually no, I was referring to non VN readers that cared about few characters, "even without the actual development" (such like Risingstar3110, umineko, avianwing to name a few). That is certainly ironic with the point mentioned several time, but it is absolutely without any contradiction and the like.
That said, Attachment is only to some degree, we are far from the rollercoaster of the later Episodes and that the story obviously presents the characters in a "plot" unlike in Higurashi, where it was much more driven on characters themselves.

That's not to say the characters are quite cold in the beginning either; it's at this point in the novel (and perhaps the anime) that people are given the chance to relate to the characters that are alive, and for the rest, you know what happens later and why the cast made such a strong impact on the fandom. Bottom line is, in regards to character attachment, give it time. (Well, I'm not sure if that's helpful to those are quite enthusiastic about finding even the smallest details to blast the anime.)

That is actually the reason why I felt the cut of the character development isn't exactly that great. The plot doesn't suffer that much, but the point is lessening the possibility of being attached to some characters might be a problem on the long run if one doesn't care if X or Y dies. That is also why I (not sure for the rest) was complaining regarding the personal enjoyment. Obviously, that WON'T deteriorate the plot at all. At least, we are just in the premises of the whole franchise, that's it. There is absolutely no reason to expect the same treatment for the rest of the show, but "for the time being", I certainly cannot see it wrong for people to notify the "lack of empathy potential" that some non VN readers stated as well.

Originally Posted by musouka

Look, even if you were "attached" to the characters, I highly doubt you were crying yourself to sleep when they died in the VN. The murders indicate the start of something interesting in the story, not your cue to feel sorry for the victims. It's like pretty much every murder mystery ever made in that regard, where the people that die first aren't supposed to be where your sympathies lie, but the people reacting and dealing with the aftermath.

I absolutely didn't say otherwise. The thing is that one part isn't exclusive to another: sympathy can be drawn from both sides, and most (if they care, etc) would obviously be more sympathic/empathic to George's plight than Shannon's death. That said, my point was the actual presence of such possibilities, that's why I'm not really fancying the "you are not supposed to" despite it doesn't prevent it at all.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I absolutely didn't say otherwise. The thing is that one part isn't exclusive to another: sympathy can be drawn from both sides, and most (if they care, etc) would obviously be more sympathic/empathic to George's plight than Shannon's death. That said, my point was the actual presence of such possibilities, that's why I'm not really fancying the "you are not supposed to" despite it doesn't prevent it at all.

It's not that you're not allowed to, only that it's not a "flaw" of the anime that you're not mourning the deaths of the six. People are assuming you're supposed to be "attached" to these characters, when that isn't really the point of the narrative at where we are now.

There's a lot more information about these characters when they all die in the VN, but very, very little of it is aimed towards making you sympathetic or identifying with them. Thus if the anime is the same way, it's just following in the footsteps of the VN, not ruining it.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by musouka

Trust me, there wasn't any attachment to them in the VN at this point either.

well, I kind felt mostly for the female characters that were killed. I have a low tolerance for female characters being killed. I have to say that i feel satisfied about Goerge's pain though.

[AvianWing]

Well, since Umineko follows the same formula as that of Higurashi (according to Klashikari's introduction to Umineko), we can expect the cast to be "revived" and to start over again. Hence, the characters are not to be disregarded postmortem. Rather, we can anticipate their perspectives in the future. I'll admit, what intrigued me first about Kyrie was her looks. I was rather caught off guard that she could possibly be Battler's mother, though I believe she actually isn't. The current romantic pairing is pretty dead, with the only possibility being Shannon not infatuated with George in some other alternate universe. Jessica, however, can be much more relevant when Battler turns out to not be her cousin.

Anyway, back to Kyrie. She showed flashes of brilliance in this episode and kept a cool demeanor before her untimely death. I am very much looking forward to looking at the arc to which she survives for much longer, similar to how I look forward to my favorite side character that shows brilliance from time to time in a shounen anime. When it's her time, I'll go FFFFFFFyeah! Hence, the attachment comes mainly from anticipation rather than what has already been presented.

[Deathkillz]

For me, the character in this series are what makes the story so attractive. I really can't believe I am hearing that some players aren't attracted to any of the characters at all since "those feelings" make up a really big point of the game besides the mystery. To each their own but it is sad to hear that "emotional attachments" towards the characters are so downplayed for some of the fans when half of the story revolves around the readers being moved by those emotions.

Originally Posted by musouka

It's not that you're not allowed to, only that it's not a "flaw" of the anime that you're not mourning the deaths of the six. People are assuming you're supposed to be "attached" to these characters, when that isn't really the point of the narrative at where we are now.

There's a lot more information about these characters when they all die in the VN, but very, very little of it is aimed towards making you sympathetic or identifying with them. Thus if the anime is the same way, it's just following in the footsteps of the VN, not ruining it.

Granted that deaths in the VN are made to shock the readers than feeling sympathetic, even so I don't believe that there would be anyone who didn't care for the deaths of the 6 (playing the game) for better or for worse. Out of the 6 I remember I didn't really care about Gohda dying but that isn't because he just died, but rather because of his character when he was alive (which frankly, wasn't shown here how much of a bastard he could be). Rudolf's shocking revelation felt like nothing towards the game and how can one feel sorry for George when the image I am getting here is a guy who doesn't show as much love as I know he should show?

[bigemperor]

i just found this in youtube and is amazing, is how i imagine the first twilight, amazing voice acting (drama cd) + Golden Slaughterer well use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoA4GPciKe4

[Unknown Soldier]

A thought that occurred to me.

The anime apparently is leaving a lot of things in the VN and manga out. I wouldn't know, I've never read the VN or seen the manga. However, it stands to reason that if Ryukishi07 is keeping an eye on the anime's scripting, there will be things that he considers very important which cannot be left out. So, in essence, what the anime is doing is telling us what actually is important and what isn't from the VN/manga, simply by showing some things and leaving out others.

[Change of Pace]

It's pretty funny; I was raving about the first episode, but after reading the manga, I realized just how much the anime adaption is really butchering this series. Hell, it's probably a whole lot more, in comparison with the original VN, but, I wouldn't know about that. If I hadn't read up on the manga up till this point, I'd probably still say this was a fantastic episode, but the amount that was cut, coupled with the occasionally sub-par animation really killed the mood several times in the episode.

Kinzo's character has really been sliced into a one-sided madman, because scenes in which he's being normal and amiable have all neatly been overlooked. And the two scenes I was most looking forward to seeing animated this episode: George's proposal and Natsuhi's discussion with Kinzo were completely destroyed. George and Shannon were animated extremely awkwardly, and all their cute banter which defined their type of relationship was chucked out the window. It was so much better in the manga.

Same with Natsuhi when she spoke with Kinzo; I felt that whole scene lacked the power that the manga pages carried. First of all, the night before, the anime takes out her entire reason for being so distraught after being showed the gold, which makes Jessica giving her the talisman nothing special. When she goes to talk to Kinzo, while in the manga, Kinzo's words relieve her of the sadness that peaked at the incident regarding the ingot, the removal of the previous scene makes this lose so much significance. The removal of all inner thoughts also detracts, but I definitely think the timing could have been better. Like, Natsuhi's expression of gratefulness and humility when Kinzo tells her she carries the one-winged eagle upon her heart was not up to par. :/

And of course, other little details like the reaction to Maria's letter, Battler and Kyrie's severly short talk, Battler's dad tossing out news of his death... the anime totally flopped here. I don't know how much it pales in comparison with the VN, but even comparing it to the manga, there's a world of difference between the them.

Conclusion: I'll be reading ahead with the manga with no further qualms, thanks very much. Which, by the way, I find immensely enjoyable, and far superior to the anime~

Oh, btw, the Higurashi plug was hilarious.

[sento]

Originally Posted by Change of Pace

[...]

You know that the manga will probably last years and that the anime will surpass manga's storypoint in some weeks right?

Read the SN, and then you got one of the best points about Umineko that the manga don't have, the awesome OST.

[orion]

I felt bad about Sayo dying but at least she got the courage up to make her feeling known. Felt bad for Battler losing his parents (dad and stepmom) in one go too. They seemed to be the nicest of the parents along with Natsuhi.

Loved the episode. Hate the dark scenes for the shed. Gotta wait for the R1 release to see it to its full extent.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by orion

I felt bad about Sayo dying but at least she got the courage up to make her feeling known. Felt bad for Battler losing his parents (dad and stepmom) in one go too. They seemed to be the nicest of the parents along with Natsuhi.

You mean Rosa isn't one of the nicest parents? D: *shot*

Kyrie and Hideyoshi seem like the nicest parents out of all of them... to me at least. ^^;

[orion]

Well Battler's parents were shown talking to him during the crisis. Natsuhi and Jessica were talking to each other. The others just weren't conversing with their children. Rosa, in her good moment, was trying to figure out if a stranger had approached Maria so she gets points for that.

[nagare]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

A thought that occurred to me.

The anime apparently is leaving a lot of things in the VN and manga out. I wouldn't know, I've never read the VN or seen the manga. However, it stands to reason that if Ryukishi07 is keeping an eye on the anime's scripting, there will be things that he considers very important which cannot be left out. So, in essence, what the anime is doing is telling us what actually is important and what isn't from the VN/manga, simply by showing some things and leaving out others.

I grantee you this is not the case.
Anyone who has read Higurashi will tell you how much critical information DEEN has left out from the anime.

The anime's purpose to market the franchise. If you're interesting in "playing" the game, you need to buy the game. There is no substitute.

But I'll enjoy the anime for what it is. I personally think it's a decent adaptation.

[kirapika]

I can't say that the episode wasn't amazing but something was off with it. One thing's for sure was that the pacing was too fast. I think it covered about 4 chapters in the manga?

Anyhow..

Spoiler for Umineko episode 2:

Despite having a fast pace, being a manga reader(I wish I could play the vn too but meh) I still could understand what's happening. I'm just disappointed by George's proposal. The anime hasn't given much spotlight on George and Shannon's relationship other than the b00b jokes being done by Battler so it seemed so sudden to me. *sigh*

I can't wait to see the next episode~

What I think of this episode: here <-- Click at your own risk; there are spoilers there.

[Jze0]

Man... I don't know who killled those people but that was quite shocking. Not stocking for the fact that there was killing cuz you knew coming into this series that people were going to die but for the fact 6 people died at once. I mean I thought people were going to be killed one by one not 6 people in one night. Thats 1/3 of the cast gone in two episode. Oh well.. its made me really curious to know whats going on so I guess its doing its job to entertain me.

Another thing I want to note is what was mention earlier in the thread about character backgrounds and info. It feels like I don't know most of the cast. Theres needs to more characters backgrounds and info presented in order to understand their personalities otherwise its kind of hard to get a grasp on what they're about. Like with the 6 deaths in the past episode i didn't feel anything for those who were dead except Shannon. Poor Shannon she even worn the ring George gave her, thats sad. Anyway, hope everything is explained in more detail later.

Last thing I want to say, I really love the ending song. Whats the name of the song by any chance?

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Freelii

True! As there is a counter example, my argument no longer holds water. Just seems weird to me to only translate it halfway.

Hempel's raven, lol.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Jze0

Last thing I want to say, I really love the ending song. Whats the name of the song by any chance?

La Divinia Tragedia (The Divine Tragedy) by Jimang.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Alright so the first half had me thinking that the show had overcome some of the issues it faced last time around, but the second half had me feeling that something must have been lost in the adaptation process. First I'll just start by saying that I don't hold it against the show itself, but Maria is annoying beyond belief. I've never really been a huge fan of Yui Horie, but her Maria is just so moe blobby that she even comes across as cutesy during the letter reading scene where the look on her face looks like she's supposed to be conveying menace or terror. Her tone changes somewhat, but she still has that Uguu~ feel to her voice that just doesn't work for me.

Anyway, I liked some of the quiet family scenes where we get to see a little bit more what some of the characters are like and how they relate to each other, but it still feels like a shallow imitation of what I read of the visual novel which went WAY more in depth as to both the younger and older generations relationships and petty quarrels. The scene with Shannon and George stands out as a highlight of the character scenes, but the incredibly out of place and frankly pointless montage of the characters with that over dramatic music had to be the low point. Not making very good use of time there.

That's not the weakest part of it all though. First I may be overstepping and missing something here, but is it just me or did nobody really seem overly concerned that their was BLOOD ON THE FREAKING DOOR ACROSS FROM JESSICA'S ROOM?! I mean Genji is all non-chalant at the fact that he noticed it on the way there, and it seems like his and Jessica's biggest concern is that he clean it up before she gets back. WTF? Next time they see blood though it's at the shed and wow, for a murder scene....I didn't think this was actually possible, but it somehow managed to seem simultaneously overwrought (Battler's screaming and head clutching) and underwhelming (Just how quickly it was all over and of course this shows consistent use of panning and scanning distracting from the scene at hand as if it refused to focus on any given aspect of the scene at hand and give it any time to sink in that something horrible had happened). I'm reminded of Jerry Bruckheimer's abuse of camera cutaways, but usually those actually serve to create or accentuate dramatic effect as opposed to take it away like the odd visual focus kept doing throughout this episode and the last one. And that's your episode climax too so that's really not good.

Really mixed feeling about this one. Even moreso then the last episode. First time they were breaking in the characters and the setting so a little awkardness in focus was forgivable, but not now when it seems to be harming the core story. The director needs to learn how to pick something and focus on giving it it's due from the storytelling perspective. Like now, because otherwise I can tell right away that it's going to affect how later arcs play out and relate back to what is happening at these moments in the story.

[Alaya]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

That's not the weakest part of it all though. First I may be overstepping and missing something here, but is it just me or did nobody really seem overly concerned that their was BLOOD ON THE FREAKING DOOR ACROSS FROM JESSICA'S ROOM?! I mean Genji is all non-chalant at the fact that he noticed it on the way there, and it seems like his and Jessica's biggest concern is that he clean it up before she gets back. WTF?

Do you mean Natsuhi's room

They believe it's a prank and they are not even sure that the marks on the door is caused by blood. It could be thick red paints or something along that line too.