Claymore - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[corkii]

OMG LOL Teresa's alive?!?!and she's got a nice perm LOL

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Since we're on a Raki tangent...

Raki is beginning to strike me as a mixture of a subverted Obi-Wan and a distressed damsel.

Basically, he's obtrusively necessary to developing the plot in the direction the writer wants to go, and there is no attempt made to disguise this.

There's nothing Obi-Wanesque about Raki. It's not like Clare's trying to be a cook.

The Obi-Wans of the show are Theresa and Irene.

Raki's more Robin to Clare's Batman. Or he would be, if he could take care of your average yoma.

[Seska]

Obi-Wans:

Light-Side:
Teresa
Irene
Galatea

Dark-Side:
Ophellia (turned to light in the end... Darth Vader i hear you)
Rafaella

[PGilis]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Raki was hated before Clare kissed him, though. His very existence was enough to step on quite a few toes. I think the jealously factor does play a major role in fueling the hatred for Raki, Clare is one hell of a woman, after all. It is not the sole cause, however, since many people don't consider Clare to be anywhere close to their favorite in the show, and still treat Raki like he's the plague.

I think part of it is the Shinji-factor, as I like to call it. Even though Raki is tough, and doesn't really whine and cry all that much, he's overshadow by all the other strong personalities in the show, making him the weakest and whiniest character in Claymore. Some people, like myself, don't really hate Raki, but feel that he takes the plot in the wrong direction. I think Raki is a pretty good character, he's actually an all around strong-minded guy, who's willing to give up anything to protect Clare, but I just feel that whenever he's around, he ends up being more of a burden, despite all his good intentions.

Great point.

I think something what causes him to be so hated too is the fact he is the only male protagonist of the series.

In shounen series filled with women, everyone expects the male to be stronger than the girls and save them in a regular basis, but that just don't happens here. On the contrary, he's the weakest of them all and is saved by girls.

So many guys following this series hate him or think he is a big burden, not considerating the fact this is one of the reasons this series is so different than other shounen-esque series filled with macho men.

I'd say Raki is half-Robin half-damsel_in_distress to Clare's batman, like Anh_Minh said.

Originally Posted by corkii

OMG LOL Teresa's alive?!?!and she's got a nice perm LOL

No, she isn't. Look, different simbol and boobs not big enough.

[mccolgate]

I hate Raki because he's the token, lame Relena Peacecraft archetype. And his voice is grating. And he holds Clare back from being a total badass. And aughughugh, he's the only thing wrong with Claymore. Notice how much better the show's been without him?

[PastPrime]

[QUOTE=PGilis;1091462]Great point.

I think something what causes him to be so hated too is the fact he is the only male protagonist of the series.

In shounen series filled with women, everyone expects the male to be stronger than the girls and save them in a regular basis, but that just don't happens here. On the contrary, he's the weakest of them all and is saved by girls.

So many guys following this series hate him or think he is a big burden, not considerating the fact this is one of the reasons this series is so different than other shounen-esque series filled with macho men. /QUOTE]

Kind of like Mai HiME's Tate, who was also well hated.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by mccolgate

I hate Raki because he's the token, lame Relena Peacecraft archetype. And his voice is grating. And he holds Clare back from being a total badass. And aughughugh, he's the only thing wrong with Claymore. Notice how much better the show's been without him?

The show also went in a different direction since then. Personally, I liked the first bunch of episodes where he was involved, as much as the latest bunch. He's key for character development for Claire. He's not ALL of her character development, but he's the part that keeps her grounded in her humanity.

And I am not really a big fan of anime where the women are the macho's, and there's almost no male warriors around ANYWHERE. Nothing to relate to, especially since I haven't met very many women that could take on your average guy in real life.

[PGilis]

No, they definitely exist. But not as warriors.

Think women working as chiefs in elevated positions taking care of many employeds, or mothers who need to work out in order to feed her kids, or women working in dangerous jobs as policewomen, firewomen and so on.

Is not so much the fact they're machos, but the fact they need to work really hard to protect or help someone. Sometimes more than men in the same situation.

[Tempest35]

I personally think that the strongest fighters are women. By strong, I mean, the mentality of a female fighter is stronger than most male fighters of the same rank just because. Not only do they have to overcome the male stigma that fighting should be done by the macho-headed guys, but stigma from fellow women too - making them almost twice as mentally tough as most male fighters.

I feel for Raki because I'd want to do the exact same thing if I was in his shoes - get stronger for the woman I care for the most. Coincedently, I felt the same way for Tate as well. ^^ For me, protecting the woman that one cares for deeply shouldn't come from an obligatory sense but it should be the strongest desire in one's heart. Anything less than that would be demeaning to that woman in my eyes. If they're willing to stake their hearts and lives on getting stronger for the women they care about, they have my highest respect. That's why I can't hate Raki, Tate, Shiro (Fate) or any of the 'weak guys' in a female-oriented shounen - I hope that they can become stronger, if not to fight alongside, then to support the women they care about the most.

[stormy001_M1A2]

As I said before, woman warriors are formidable. Just google Soviet female soldiers and you will see lists of distinguish killers in Great Patriotic War, also ancient nomad of Sycthia venerated their females as equal fighters. One of famous samurai in 13th century Japan is a female. Heck Claymore main inspiration, Joan of Arc is also existed.

I know it is a mythos but there must be some historical basis for Greek legend of the Amazons.

But again and again, I felt Raki role in the story is human element and mirror, now not only to Claire but also Priscillia.

[FlareKnight]

Certainly agree that just being a warrior/fighter/soldier takes some serious mental strength in general. If a person is willing to put their life on the line and can also handle the reality of taking anthers life to protect yourself is something pretty heavy to handle. Certainly give credit to both genders that can go out and do something like that.

Certainly would feel for Raki's position. Of course he'd want to get stronger for the person he cares for but how is a real question. Unless one goes to extreme levels in that universe a normal humans power just isn't going to cut it. As he is the most he can do is be a background support and something to Clare's humanity. Power wise he'll need to find a method to improve himself or that'll be it. For the characters in those positions all they can do is do what is in their ability. If you can't do anything power wise find another route to help.

[Kazidoom]

I'm starting to think all the Raki haters dislike him because he reminds them too much of themselves. "He's annoying and all he does it whine!" Look at yourself, whining about a fictional character...he's supposed to be a kid anyway, not invincible shonen hero #487. How would you have reacted if your parents were eaten alive in front of your eyes when you were 12 or whatever. Believe it or not, not every guy has to be a badass with spiky air carrying a sword bigger than himself. Raki's role in the beginning was to connect on an emotional level with Clare as a child looking up to someone he respected, trusted and depended upon.

If you have trouble understanding basic emotions and how relationships work in real life perhaps Claymore isn't the right manga/anime for you.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Kazidoom

I'm starting to think all the Raki haters dislike him because he reminds them too much of themselves. "He's annoying and all he does it whine!" Look at yourself, whining about a fictional character...he's supposed to be a kid anyway, not invincible shonen hero #487. How would you have reacted if your parents were eaten alive in front of your eyes when you were 12 or whatever. Believe it or not, not every guy has to be a badass with spiky air carrying a sword bigger than himself. Raki's role in the beginning was to connect on an emotional level with Clare as a child looking up to someone he respected, trusted and depended upon.

If you have trouble understanding basic emotions and how relationships work in real life perhaps Claymore isn't the right manga/anime for you.

If one cannot complain about the qualities of a fictional character, what would be the point of even discussing works of fiction in the first place? If one can praise, one should also be allowed to complain. All of your points have already been addressed plenty of times, if you're going to complain about others, at least bring something new to the table. Yes, Raki has a reason to complain. Yes, he's young, and he's only human. Yes, he's Clare's emotional outlet. This has all been brought up already, people hate him for other reasons as well.

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

Originally Posted by mccolgate

I hate Raki because he's the token, lame Relena Peacecraft archetype. And his voice is grating. And he holds Clare back from being a total badass. And aughughugh, he's the only thing wrong with Claymore. Notice how much better the show's been without him?

Actually, the series is good because of Raki. Like him or not, Raki is the main driving force of the storyline in Claymore. Practically almost all the threads of the storyline are being pulled by Raki. Don't believe me? Lets revisit the series from ep.1 up until now and how Raki has been the main driving force of the storyline:

-Ep.1-2: These two episodes are completely focused on how Raki becomes attached to a Claymore. Notice how the storyline is being presented through Raki's point of view, considering that we (the audience) are completely clueless about Claymores, just like Raki. Thus we learn about the Claymores with him and through him. Interesting how it was Raki who introduces us to Claymores.

-Ep.3-4: These are the episodes that gets the ball rolling, and its all because of Raki. Why was Clare sent to Rabona? Because she has Raki with her and thus is the best choice to send her disguised in Rabona without raising any suspicion. Without Raki she would have never been sent to Rabona, thus she would have never half awakened. Not to mention that it was because of Raki that she was able come back after passing her limit.

-Ep.5-8: Although, this episode does not have anything to do with Raki, it does point out Clare's and Teresa's relationship, which is used as reference as to why Clare let Raki join her in the first place. See the connection?

-Ep.9-11: Now these are the episode where Clare was supposed to be disposed off because she half awakened. And who's fault is that? Raki's of course. Raki was the reason why she was able to half awaken and thus is the reason why she is being disposed off. Notice how Raki is pulling the threads of the storyline thus far?

-Ep.12-14: So how does Raki pull the threads in this episode? He is the reason why Clare was able to escape Ophelia, and thus bumping into Irene. Without Raki, Ophelia would have had her way with Clare, which would have been quite interesting though.

-Ep.15-17: Now this one is BIG. Another key driving force in the storyline is Clare's urge to take revenge on Priscilla. But in these episodes she abandoned that notation for the sake of finding Raki. Once again, Raki is pulling all the threads. In other words, Raki is more important then Clare's revenge on Priscilla.

-Ep.18-19: Raki plus Clare plus Priscilla...with Raki stuck in the middle...need I say more?

For the record, I think it's alright if someone hates Raki, but I think its important to recognize how important he is in this storyline. If Raki where to die right now, there wouldn't be much to the storyline anymore considering he is such key component that's moving the storyline forward.

[redmeat]

I think that trying to go beyond one's limitations is one of the main themes in Claymore. Clare knows the near impossibility of defeating Priscilla yet she still hasn't given up. Raki knows that he's weak but he still strives to go beyond his limit. One of Raki's roles in the story is to put a realistic perspective to this theme. I think Raki is one of the reasons that make this series interesting. I'm tired of those stupid uber powerups in other shounen anime.

[Rhyel]

To resume, to me and to majority people, Raki is less than nothing, and boring kid, remember its is a kid, not to wait for him.

But to Clare, Raki is all humanity people of she cares about.

The remember of young Clare, but perhaps with different future, more happy.

Raki is the character to all hate and it is one more contrast in Claymore.

PS: Sorry my poor English

[stormy001_M1A2]

The problem for most people about Raki is he is too normal and got away with Claire and Priscillia's affection.

A clue to all, noticed that he is already able to swing a sword that is meant to be used by adult warriors in such tender age. Not as big and long as Claymore's but quite huge for human standard.

That's a hint to how powerful he will be in the future.

[EasyPrey]

It is time for me to go out on a limb and make a prediction.

Here is what we know:

1. Claymores have walked a long time to get to the North.

2. They have not had a decent shower in a while.

3. As soon as they got there, they had to fight three awaken beings.

4. That fight made the girls even more sweaty. They feel like they need to unwind.

5. Anime law states that whenever there are a whole bunch of women in cold climate, a hot springs will be found nearby.

6. Anime law states that whenever there is a hot springs (plus girls), that will result in the mandatory "hot springs special" episode.

Therefore, I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that the next episode will be the hot springs special episode!

Yeah!!

-EasyPrey

Disclaimer: Author is not responsible for any nosebleed the viewers may suffer, if Madhouse decides to air a hot springs special episode.

[KiNA]

I feel that next episode will determined wether the anime going to follow the manga or going to a totally different anime ending.

Bear in mind, for the latter to happen.. Clare gonna get some serious level up

[emu777]

Well jusdging from the episode preview i dont see anything that might deviate from the manga but one never can tell with these episodes , i mean first the watering down/cutting out of good lines in the anime might be a king of prelude to a change in storyline.