[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Uncreativex

Yeah that'd do wonders for the plot. Despite, perhaps in irony, saying they should thank Aizen, the Vaizard have many times expressed hate and disgust for him.

I am really looking forward to seeing more of the vizard, though I think it may add to the existing problem of there being too many characters. Seeing new faces will help, but it will only be so long before the excitement wears off if the vizard's role isn't handled properly.

By the way, any one know why nothing has been said about the traitor three becoming hollowified themselves? I though the point of Aizen betraying SS was so he could hollowify himself, and go beyond his limits, like Ichigo.

Not quite sure, but I think it probably has something to do with the hougyoku not being fully awake yet.

Originally Posted by Wolick

it's strange that people that died over 100 years ago are so easy for us to relate to, and the shock of civilization is nothing to them.
They all are "immortal" as they don't die from old age, which if you think from real perspective gives a big question mark as asking 15 years old to kill things. Since they don't die or nearly age their mental state is somehow led to a completly new levels, and yet they don't show any signs of this affecting them, except maybe for Shunsui that got bored from his immortality.

Well, it's not like the shinigami are that out-of-touch with the modern world. Rukia was shown use cell-phone like device to communicate and locate hollows since the earliest chapters. Their culture is just more traditional than humans.

Still, it was touched on in the earlier chapters that shinigami need some adjustment. When Rukia first started living among humans she spoke in an archaic way and had to practice to speak like everyone else. She was also fascinated by simple modern conveniences like juice boxes. But I think the novelty wore off, and it wasn't really brought up with the other shingami. Most shinigami don't really care anything about human culture but some do pick up on trends. Shinji for example was shown enjoying jazz music 100 years ago, which at the time was new.

As for asking a 15 year-old to kill things. For much of human history 15 years old was considered to be full adulthood and plenty old enough to fight and kill.

Originally Posted by Wolcik

I know that the begining of my post is that Bleach isn't realistic as most manga/anime because it's fictional and has many sience fiction factors that are much japanese. There is a reason why most 2nd war time people wouldn't ever be into this kind of creazy things except for those that japanese. I'm compering civilisation that had to face two atomic bombs to the one that had war on their land and concentration camps (in my country they teach about things like that in school to help mature emotionaly instead of being politically correct).

"Isn't as realistic as most manga/anime because it's fictional"? As opposed to other manga which are...also fictional? I also don't really see where the sci-fi comes in because Bleach is pretty much pure fantasy. It's a little hard to understand what you're complaining about here.

[Mr. DJ]

Hollows might come from good people, and that's why we should forgive them for giving in to their despair and killing people?

not all Hollows are sentient, vast majority run on pure instinct

my problem is people passing on misconceptions about them simply "being evil because they were evil while living"

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

The stronger guy beats up weaker guy..

So you agree that SS was too weak fro Espada and then started to not be?

No he is not, Ichigo would get crushed in KK town.

From the fights there were Ichigo was the stronest untill Byakuya&co came and proved that if Rukia can kill an Espada then anybody can. But you probably say that if Kubo wrote it, that's not a bad writing.

So did you also learn not to compare the real world to this comic book?

A good comic can handle a little comparison, Bleach somehow can't handle more than "it looks similar" when it comes to enviroment.
Comics are source that artists take to send their message (others are games and movies) but Bleach somehow isn't sure what message it has...

Of course, It's shonen Jump, people don't read Shonen Jump for the shallow plots.

They get shallow plots so they read for that too. It's an extra to sexy girls and metrosexual boys that mostly look at least 4 years older than they are (I understand that in US teenage comedy when the better actors are older than 16 - not good, but better).

That means you use to be a very boring person.

I find that offensive, but I guess you're joking.

Originally Posted by Langus

Wolcik : I'm right there with you. I hear enough wank from inflated egos in my daily life to have absolutely no desire to to read it here.

I don't go out much in my real life because I don't have much emotional need to socialise with people too much. All I need to have few people in my basment to play with my axe...

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I am really looking forward to seeing more of the vizard, though I think it may add to the existing problem of there being too many characters. Seeing new faces will help, but it will only be so long before the excitement wears off if the vizard's role isn't handled properly.

We have to wait till Hitsugaya and SoiFong loses, then Shunsui can start losing with realising his shikai or not and it... if Vaizard won't be needed than Espada's became even more ridiculous XD

Not quite sure, but I think it probably has something to do with the hougyoku not being fully awake yet.

We don't know if they are Vaizards. Aizen said that he can awake Houguyoku whit some of his super over captain level reiatsu.

Well, it's not like the shinigami are that out-of-touch with the modern world. Rukia was shown use cell-phone like device to communicate and locate hollows since the earliest chapters. Their culture is just more traditional than humans.

Well, I always found it odd for someone walking in kimonos, using sword and living in such place to use cellphones. It would be better with more butterflies, since any of them didn't switch his sword in shikai into a gun or bazooka.

Still, it was touched on in the earlier chapters that shinigami need some adjustment. When Rukia first started living among humans she spoke in an archaic way and had to practice to speak like everyone else. She was also fascinated by simple modern conveniences like juice boxes. But I think the novelty wore off, and it wasn't really brought up with the other shingami. Most shinigami don't really care anything about human culture but some do pick up on trends. Shinji for example was shown enjoying jazz music 100 years ago, which at the time was new.

So a car or cellphone isn't a shock anymore, but a juiced box is? It's all so strange... I know she sees them, but why there are no cars in SS?

As for asking a 15 year-old to kill things. For much of human history 15 years old was considered to be full adulthood and plenty old enough to fight and kill.

From what I remember from middleages the girl was adult and ready for marrage and sex in the age about 12, while her hausbent would be at least 30 years old
15 years old were working like anybody else, but that didn't make them more mature than actual adults.

"Isn't as realistic as most manga/anime because it's fictional"? As opposed to other manga which are...also fictional? I also don't really see where the sci-fi comes in because Bleach is pretty much pure fantasy. It's a little hard to understand what you're complaining about here.

Manga and anime is opposite to e.g. movies. While saying sc-fi I could mean fantasy as well, I just wanted to say that there are made up things. Dwarfs are more believable than Shinigami.

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

not all Hollows are sentient, vast majority run on pure instinct

my problem is people passing on misconceptions about them simply "being evil because they were evil while living"

Now you know why Rukia was treated by Renji like shi't for being friendly with humans. It's like taking interest in hollows - you used to do that, but now you know that a good shinigami runs through all of them while try to get to a coffe place on time.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Wolcik

So you agree that SS was too weak fro Espada and then started to not be?

How do you figure when SS is the one's who has killed most of the Espada?

From the fights there were Ichigo was the stronest untill Byakuya&co came and proved that if Rukia can kill an Espada then anybody can. But you probably say that if Kubo wrote it, that's not a bad writing.

Rukia BARELY killed the WEAKEST Espada, don't act as if she took on GJ head up. It ain't bad writing,no where near.

A good comic can handle a little comparison, Bleach somehow can't handle more than "it looks similar" when it comes to enviroment.
Comics are source that artists take to send their message (others are games and movies) but Bleach somehow isn't sure what message it has...

Originally Posted by Interview

What do you think is the main theme of Bleach?
In my work, I don’t like to impose a message or theme onto the reader. I want the characters to develop on their own and create the story themselves, and it usually turns out very clever. So I tend to do that sort of thing.

http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthre...?t=767&page=39

They get shallow plots so they read for that too. It's an extra to sexy girls and metrosexual boys that mostly look at least 4 years older than they are (I understand that in US teenage comedy when the better actors are older than 16 - not good, but better).

Yeah, glad you know that Shonen Jump manga's plots generally suck.

I find that offensive, but I guess you're joking.

Of course I was joking, why so sensitive on the interent everyone?

I don't go out much in my real life because I don't have much emotional need to socialise with people too much. All I need to have few people in my basment to play with my axe...

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Rukia BARELY killed the WEAKEST Espada, don't act as if she took on GJ head up. It ain't bad writing,no where near.

Actually Rukia was doing pretty well, fighting him head on, before she went all emo again.

[Phenomenal]

Haak, go read the fight again....

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Haak, go read the fight again....

I'm not ready to anwser your other post yet because I have a mayor crisis with Bleach for past few hours... but you say people to reread stuff so much, they might have something better to do and if you want to prove them wrong then go do it yourself and post the best pic to prove your theories (like Rukia not fighting with Espada for few chapters).

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Wolcik

I'm not ready to anwser your other post yet because I have a mayor crisis with Bleach for past few hours... but you say people to reread stuff so much, they might have something better to do and if you want to prove them wrong then go do it yourself and post the best pic to prove your theories (like Rukia not fighting with Espada for few chapters).

And what makes you think i don't have better things to do instead of sitting here and recaping events to people who think they know what they are complaining about?

People got to put some work in around here themselves, I see why this thread was made.

[Mr. DJ]

It's always a good idea to post evidence if you're trying to prove someone wrong.

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

And what makes you think i don't have better things to do instead of sitting here and recaping events to people who think they know what they are complaining about?

People got to put some work in around here themselves, I see why this thread was made.

Originally Posted by Wolcik

I'm not ready to anwser your other post yet because I have a mayor crisis with Bleach for past few hours... but you say people to reread stuff so much, they might have something better to do and if you want to prove them wrong then go do it yourself and post the best pic to prove your theories (like Rukia not fighting with Espada for few chapters).

Hmmm..........

[Phenomenal]

And Rukia was gettin her butt whooped until the end she pulled it off..BARELY. The point is Rukia almost died, heck she was about to die if she didn't get treatment.^^^

Also, I apologize if I insulted anyone or made anyone feel uncomfortable during this discussion.

My bad folks.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

And what makes you think i don't have better things to do instead of sitting here and recaping events to people who think they know what they are complaining about?

And yet you're here doing just that with me, so you clearly don't.
Surely it wouldn't take so long for someone who knows the manga as well as you do.

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Haak, go read the fight again....

Chapter 266 Page 16.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

How do you figure when SS is the one's who has killed most of the Espada?

I agree with Wolick, it used to be: Only a VC or higher can kill a menos grande which seemed to be a great threat, then you get Adjuchas arrancar, stronger than an Menos with it's mask still there but now it is off they are stronger than an adjuchas.

However captains and non captains have skipped 2 levels and are able to beat Adjuchas arrancar with no show in development since SS, those that are shown to be really strong from the beginning: Shunsui, Ukitake, Yamamoto, Unohana fine but Hitsugaya the one who almost died against the replacement 6 that Grimmy killed with ease now facing number 3 who is higher than Grimmjow with little trouble and now in the spoilers seemingly defeating her?

Kubo has a problem with pulling power ups from nowhere

[james0246]

^Hitsugaya, back during the Grimmjow intro, was fighting with an extreme limit on his power. Once the limit was gone, he finished his battle fairly quickly. Additionally, he was able to trap and potentially almost defeat the replacement 6th Espada Luppi (after getting knocked around, of course). So, there was somewhat adequete establishment of the various different levels of power, etc.

I do agree, though, that Kubo's sudden power-ups are a little hard to swallow.

[kingsky123]

i find it amazing no one is complaining about the title

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by kingsky123

i find it amazing no one is complaining about the title

Then you can tell what's its problem :P

Originally Posted by Haak

Chapter 266 Page 16.

That's a nice moment when Rukia catch Espada that was fighting at VC level with her spell. She would kill it in this moment if she was certain that it wasn't Kaien.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Haak

Chapter 266 Page 16.

What does that page prove? Rukia thought putting the Espada in sunlight would revert back to Kaien? Not too mention the Espada said that attack would only "maybe" hurt him no where near kill him.

However captains and non captains have skipped 2 levels and are able to beat Adjuchas arrancar with no show in development since SS, those that are shown to be really strong from the beginning: Shunsui, Ukitake, Yamamoto, Unohana fine but Hitsugaya the one who almost died against the replacement 6 that Grimmy killed with ease now facing number 3 who is higher than Grimmjow with little trouble and now in the spoilers seemingly defeating her?

James0246 answered this.^^

Besides seeing new moves from Hitsugaya is called development.

[kakakka]

There is a thing called "training arc" which people really don't mind even if it wastes chapter pages....

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by kakakka

There is a thing called "training arc" which people really don't mind even if it wastes chapter pages....

Tell that to Oda Eiichiro as well...

Please, no double standards here.........

[kakakka]

I'm just saying.

And about double standards. I frequently changes opinion base on the mood.