Higurashi Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 10.

Thread Guidelines

• No telling or asking for RAWs.
• Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

[spoiler=title]Don't forget to use the spoiler title[/spoiler]

....will get you this...

Spoiler for title:

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni

• Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni before you ask questions!!!
  
• Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
  
• I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.
  
• SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

[Sushi-Y]

Spoiler for complaint from a gamer's point of view:

Hmm... to be honest, I think they missed the mark for this one. It's almost as if the anime is simply displaying what happened without trying to convey the significance of the contents at all. The scenes are displayed one after another, with little sense of connection between them. The anime has always been rushing the story, but it was especially apparent with this episode.

Anyway, with this episode, the stage is finally set. As a quick summary:

Spoiler:

We begin at school, where we find that Satoko has been absent for several days now. It's only a forshadowing to the tragedy that's about to occur.


Oishi appears, and for some reason, he's looking for Satoko. We notice he's much unfriendlier this time around, intimidating Keiichi.


And Irie comes to the rescue. Good, Iri, you look kind of cool!


At the infirmary, Irie tells Keiichi about how Satoko and Satoshi was taken in by their uncle and aunt after their parents died in the nature park accident. But the lives of Satoko and Satoshi became very tough at their uncle's place. The reason: abuse.

However, last year, Satoko's aunt was killed by a drug junkie. Thinking this might be Oyashisama's curse, Satoko's uncle escaped Hinamizawa to his lover's place. After Satoshi "ran away from the house", Satoko was left all alone. And Oishi appeared soon after that, his intents unknown.


Around the back of the school, Okamura and Tomida-kun tells Keiichi that Satoko's uncle seems to have returned.



Next comes one of the most important scenes in Tatarigoroshi-hen: Keiichi's visit to the Houjou residence. It's here that we finally realize the seriousness of the situation, and the condition that Satoko is in.

Actually, this scene was done quite well. I felt like they successfully portrayed Satoko's feelings, her helplessness and pain. As a viewer, we were able to share Keiichi's anger towards Satoko's good-for-nothing uncle, forcing Satoko to go out and buy alcohol and snacks for him while he and his beer buddies stay home and play mah jong.


In the car, Irie finally explains the reason why Satoko doesn't choose to call for help: Satoshi.

The anime didn't really explain this, but when Satoko and Satoshi were living together with their uncle and aunt, Satoshi has always been protecting Satoko while directing most of the abuse to himself. Unlike Satoshi, who has learned to avoid agitating his uncle and aunt over time, Satoko was still young, so she wasn't very good at hiding her feelings. As a result, Satoko often made the uncle and aunt angry by throwing tandrums.

Satoko believes that Satoshi left because he couldn't take it anymore, and she thinks Satoshi won't come back until she can prove herself to be a strong and mature girl. That's why Satoko considers the uncle's return as a trial: if she can withstand the abuse, Satoshi will come back. But if she calls for help, she loses and Satoshi will never come back.


I'll skip the Tomitake & Takano scene since they're pretty much the same from the other chapters.


Keiichi, in his desperation, considers the possibility that the powerful Sonozaki family might be responsible for Oyashirosama's curse, and approaches Mion and askes for Sonozaki family's help.

Mion: "So... Kei-chan is calling me a murderer then"

Of course, Keiichi didn't mean it that way, he's just desperate to find someone who can help Satoko. But in the end, Mion rejected, and denys her family is responsible for the past deaths.


Satoko showed up at school the next day, looking all normal. Apparantly, child protection services has been to her house, but no actions were taken. Rika pulled Keiichi to a corner, and tells him that Satoko and her uncle has denied the allegations of abuse together... Just like Irie said, nothing can be done unless Satoko calls for help herself...

Rika also revealed Satoko's histoyry for making false calls about being abused. Satoko's father (the one who died in the falling accident) wasn't actually her birth father, but a new partner Satoko's mother remarried. Satoko disliked her new dad, so she made false calls about being abused as an attempt to get rid of him.

Keiichi: "Are you saying that they're taking a wait-and-see stance simply because they think Satoko might be lying!?"


Finally, the single most important scene in the chapter, the lunch scene where Satoko broke down. Unfortunately, this scene was poorly done in a sense that it didn't deliver the same feel of urgency and tension as it did in the game.

Satoko's breakdown was caused because Keiichi "touched" her, not because his petting reminded her of Satoshi. I have no idea what the anime was trying to do there.

Also, Satoko blowing Keiichi across the classroom with one push...

The throw-up part was needed, it showed just how repulsive her body felt by being touched.

It might appear unclear in the anime, but Satoko's "gomenasai" in the end came out because she realized that she has just made a mess and caused chaos in the classroom... In the game, she also said "it wasn't me, it wasn't me, it wasn't me".

Overall, this scene lacked impact. In the game, there really was a strong sense of tension, that "this is an emergency! There's no time left to sit around and "wait-and-see", Satoko is in a dangerous state right now and she CANNOT be left alone anymore!". But in this episode, it felt almost as if everyone just stood around watching Satoko act creepy... It's just not the right image...

There was also a strong sense of regret and despair for Keiichi in this scene, he cursed himself for not doing anything sooner. In the game, Keiichi already discussed Satoko's situation with Rena and the others, as well as Chie-sensei, for days. Keiichi's biggest fear was that by the time actions were taken, it would be "too late" for Satoko, and that they'll never be able to return back to their happy days. Well, the scene where Satoko broke down was the limit, it's "too late" now, Satoko has already been broken, it was naive to think that Satoko will be able to hang in there until a solution can be figured out, and now they will never be able to go back to their happy days again... That was the hopelessness and emptiness that took over Keiichi's heart at the moment.

Anyway, this was also the scene where Keiichi "made the decision". The episode stopped just short of this, but I sure hope they do show (in the next episode) how Keiichi's brain was thrown into overdrive by this. His super-cold thoughts and precision-decisiveness was absolutely stunning in during this section of the novel, it would be a sin if they skipped out on Keiichi's "transformation".

[Rasuberi]

I'm feeling slightly depressed now~ And wishing I could buy all of Higurashi's sound novel's sometime soon. (Don't have the money to buy anything from Japan right now... )

Spoiler:

Aa, what to say. I of course enjoyed this episode, but Satoko sure is a strong little girl...

Based on what Sushi said, they sure seemed to make her look creepier than unfortunate and in need of help. But I kind of figured while watching they were exagerating it a bit, but oh did my heart tighten during the "Gomen nasai.. gomen nasai... gomen nasai". Satoko...

And... mii... Oishi can be scary.

When I started getting afraid there would barely be any Mion screen-time, thankfully she appeared. That was kind of a tense scene, poor Mion feeling accused of being a murdurer by Keiichi. She understood why he was asking her that... but it's not that nice to hear someone you care about think you are a possible killer, or to have some part in past killings. I get rather happy when I see Mion's hair color on screen though <3~

[paTKany]

Quite informative episode about Satoko&Satoshi's past. (7/10)

I hate Oishi for being impolite with the little girls. Do not scare the lolis dammit!

[MarmoO]

Anime reduced tension of Satoko’s breakdown by 90% of what was in manga, I prefer not to ask how much was it reduced in comparison to a game. It would have been better if five episodes were given for this arc, because it all seemed way too rushed. 6/10 Before I watched it, I was sure this one will get at least 9/10, but too much was lacking here.

[iamandragon]

Wa...episode 10 is out...and I still can't watch episode 9...

[kj1980]

Really? I may have to disagree with the rest here.

Granted it did leave out many points from the game, but overall I think the staff did a great job in this episode. The pacing was quite right as well. Obviously when one had played the game in advance, you may feel that it is quite rushed. On the other hand, I see it that the staff did an excellent job in cutting out points that can drag on and on. To the viewers, they got right to point that Satoko is being abused.

Anyhow, I am interesting in seeing how things will be portrayed in the next episode....

[Tenson]

Wow... as a person who went in without playing the game... I think this ep is quite incredible! True that the final scene did delivered as well as what Sushi said the game does but the sudden break down still caught me off guard... especially at such heartwarming moment...

My heart honestly ached when Keiichi went to Satoko's house and finds her with those big un-focused eyes...

I think I can understand why Keiichi was voted one of the fan's favourite character. Like Rika-chan said in ep 9, Keiichi's performance in this arc can be marked as 100.

Not having play the game, I think this is a great ep... LOL

[MakubeX2]

........

Shame that the following scene didn't get animated.

Spoiler:

[SpaceDrake]

Hm, reading the episode summary since poor ol' Alex is being a bit slow with the subs...

However.

Waitwaitwait wait wait.

Spoiler for Concerning where Sakoto lives:

I was under the impression from Watanagashi-hen that Sakoto lived with Rika, just the two of them by themselves. The only "adult" presense being the Temple staff making sure the girls were safe and didn't wander off and do anything too ridiculous. This was reinforced in my mind by the excellent, disaster-averting domestic skills the two apparently show in Ep.9. So... what's the deal here? Why was Sakoto at Rika's that evening in Watanagashi-hen? Was it chance, or is there something different about the scenario between now and then?

EDIT: ah wait. I guess that's the "major difference" in this particular arc: in other arcs, Sakoto lives with Rika and isn't TOO traumatized (aside from what happens in Watanagashi-hen anyway), but here Uncle returns and her life goes down the toilet. Just want to make sure I've got it right.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

Hm, reading the episode summary since poor ol' Alex is being a bit slow with the subs...

However.

Waitwaitwait wait wait.

Spoiler for Concerning where Sakoto lives:

I was under the impression from Watanagashi-hen that Sakoto lived with Rika, just the two of them by themselves. The only "adult" presense being the Temple staff making sure the girls were safe and didn't wander off and do anything too ridiculous. This was reinforced in my mind by the excellent, disaster-averting domestic skills the two apparently show in Ep.9. So... what's the deal here? Why was Sakoto at Rika's that evening in Watanagashi-hen? Was it chance, or is there something different about the scenario between now and then?

EDIT: ah wait. I guess that's the "major difference" in this particular arc: in other arcs, Sakoto lives with Rika and isn't TOO traumatized (aside from what happens in Watanagashi-hen anyway), but here Uncle returns and her life goes down the toilet. Just want to make sure I've got it right.

Read the TIPS post #51. Then, re-examine the scene where the two kids tell Keiichi that Satoko's uncle came back. Put the two together, and you get it what you came up with.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

........

Shame that the following scene didn't get animated.

Well, the first part did.

Like I said, they're really forsaking the sad, tear-jerking aspects of the story and focusing only on the "suspense".

Originally Posted by SpaceDrake

Spoiler for Concerning where Sakoto lives:

I was under the impression from Watanagashi-hen that Sakoto lived with Rika, just the two of them by themselves. The only "adult" presense being the Temple staff making sure the girls were safe and didn't wander off and do anything too ridiculous. This was reinforced in my mind by the excellent, disaster-averting domestic skills the two apparently show in Ep.9. So... what's the deal here? Why was Sakoto at Rika's that evening in Watanagashi-hen? Was it chance, or is there something different about the scenario between now and then?

EDIT: ah wait. I guess that's the "major difference" in this particular arc: in other arcs, Sakoto lives with Rika and isn't TOO traumatized (aside from what happens in Watanagashi-hen anyway), but here Uncle returns and her life goes down the toilet. Just want to make sure I've got it right.

This was explained clearly in the game, so there's no need to guess this one. I'm not sure if the anime covered it yet or not (or if they just skipped explaining it all together), but since it's not that big of a deal, I'll answer your question:

Spoiler for where Satoko lives:

The big Houjou residence that you see in episode 10 belonged to Satoshi and Satoko's parents. When Satoko's parents died, Satoshi+Satoko's uncle and aunt, who became their guardians, left their own small dinky house and moved into (took over) Satoko's house.

When Satoko's aunt was killed last year, Satoko's uncle (Teppei, the abusive bum you see in this episode) escaped the village and ran to his lover's place in Okinomiya, and Satoshi disappeared.

Satoko, who's now all alone, decided to leave the Houjou house (it reminds her of nothing except painful memories, after all) and went to live with Rika in the shed inside Furude Shrine.

(Rika chose not to live in the Shrine's main house for the same reason: it reminded her of her dead parents)

The above "fact" remains pretty much constant throughout all chapters.

When Teppei returned in this chapter, he obviously went straight back to the Houjou house first. But he's completely incapable of taking care of daily necessities and housekeeping, and he had no friends in Hinamizawa either. So guess who was the first person he thought of as a source of free labor?

[蜩の泣]

Originally Posted by Rasuberi

I'm feeling slightly depressed now~ And wishing I could buy all of Higurashi's sound novel's sometime soon. (Don't have the money to buy anything from Japan right now... )

the sound novels only have like first two cases、鬼隠し編 and 綿流し編.
if u mean the drama cds.

[Rasuberi]

Originally Posted by 蜩の泣

the sound novels only have like first two cases、鬼隠し編 and 綿流し編.
if u mean the drama cds.

No, I mean the game. Not to say I wouldn't mind getting my hands on the drama CD's.

[Pale Sqwish]

EDIT *-88bhk;fd O_o i posted in the wrong post... oops -off to episoid 9 post D: --

[Deku Kirby]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

Anime reduced tension of Satoko’s breakdown by 90% of what was in manga, I prefer not to ask how much was it reduced in comparison to a game. It would have been better if five episodes were given for this arc, because it all seemed way too rushed. 6/10 Before I watched it, I was sure this one will get at least 9/10, but too much was lacking here.

Actually, according to Wikipedia, this arc IS going to be five episodes.

[Varion]

...ouch.

While I'd have to agree that urgency in the last scene wasn't there (my thoughts were more along the lines of "What's wrong with her? Why didn't it happen before? KEIICHI DON'T TOUCH HER!" it was still pretty powerful as a scene and conveyed the serious emotional strain she was under really well - I know I felt for her during it.

The scene with Mion was also pretty tense - most of the time I was expecting her to flip, especially when she cut off mid-sentence. It did a good job of showing how much he wanted to help Satoko, though it wouldn't be surprising for Mion to be somewhat offended considering how Keiichi treats information from relative strangers (I presume that's what Takano told him?) as fact in the face of a friend like her. Still, can't blame him for getting really worked up and wanting to try anything, especially considering he made it obvious how much he cared for her in the scene with Irie in the car. I still can't see him as being in the wrong, Seki Toshihiko or not...

Either way, I can see where the gameplayer's criticisms are coming from but with no prior knowledge beyond the anime this was still one really powerful episode that left me with that empty feeling at the end. Satoko's uncle better die before the end of the arc, that's all.

[BakaOnna]

I've been browsing around this forum for a while, reading the theories that people post, but I can't take it anymore. This is one of the only forums that actually has a serious discussion on this series, and after this episode, I finally decided to join.

Anyway, I've never played the game before, so I thought this was an excellent episode that revealed a lot about Sakoto. Even though, based on some of the gamers' comments, the episode didn't convey as much as the game, I thought the last scene and the scene when Keiichi went to Sakoto's house was very well done. The scene with Keiichi talking to Mion was also very tense, like Valdra said, I was expecting her to go into some sort of "demon" mode.

One thing I've found interesting; after two arcs, we finally find out something about Keiichi. It seems that he is the scion to an estate and his father is a well-known artist. And, based on what Takano said, he's pretty well-known in this village. Does this, in some sort of way, connect Keiichi with the village?

[Akuryou]

*only one who gave a 10* D:

I have very few to say. Just so you people know a tear almost slipped out of eyes.
This series automatically jumps to the first one of my 2006 list, beating even Suzumiya Haruhi. I hope it keeps this good until the end~

[steelbound]

Thought it was weird that Tomitake, the photographer, had to ask where the shrine was. In the previous arcs he was said to come a couple of times a year for the last several years to photograph the wildlife. You'd think if he's been there so often he'd know where the shrine was.