(L) BLACK ROCK SHOOTER TV series

[Klashikari]

The problem is still present: regardless if Yuu took part of the plan or not, should DM got defeated by BRS, things would be vastly much more ugly for Saya's objective, since it would lead to IBRS, considering BRS is linked to Mato either way.

Therefore, throwing DM among all girls at BRS is nothing but a risky gamble, doubled by a huge oversight.

[dan-heron]

but that was the thing. Make Deadmaster strong enough that Mato would notice how screwed up Yomi had gotten.

Remember that Saya asked Mato if she would die for Yomi. She was expecting Yomi's breakdown, and then Deadmaster dying so Mato would have a front row view of what happens when the Others are involved. I'm guessing that would have made Mato easier to manipulate when she's trying to fix what Rock did.

By that point, Mato would have done anything to help Yomi, or make Yomi remember her. That was how Yuu got Mato to do as she was told

[ookamigirl]

Finally... I starting to understand this anime.
Up till now it was all confusing with the other world.
Saya cleared things up a bit.
Mato sure went berserk there.
The story about those two was actually kinda nice.
Yuu sure had a tough childhood.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by dan-heron

but that was the thing. Make Deadmaster strong enough that Mato would notice how screwed up Yomi had gotten.

Remember that Saya asked Mato if she would die for Yomi. She was expecting Yomi's breakdown, and then Deadmaster dying so Mato would have a front row view of what happens when the Others are involved. I'm guessing that would have made Mato easier to manipulate when she's trying to fix what Rock did.

By that point, Mato would have done anything to help Yomi, or make Yomi remember her. That was how Yuu got Mato to do as she was told

It doesn't make sense as only Yuu and Saya are aware of their connections with their other selves, due to STR's involvement.

The point wasn't to show Mato what would happen, but to keep her away from a possible awakening with BRS, which would fail big time if BRS were to defeat DM: assuming BRS wouldn't go insane after defeating DM, Mato would certainly turn into a catatonic state if she bumps on Yomi who wouldn't recognize her, worsening BRS in the process.

Basically, nudging anything with DM is purely suicide, unless Saya is -certain- DM can defeat BRS, which is ludicrous from the get go.

[dan-heron]

no, Rock killing Deadmaster wouldn't have had any effect on Rock, she only awakened because Mato was aware of what was happening in real time and the stress was what pushed Rock bbeyond. If Mato had only seen Yomi no longer caring for her, she would have been pretty down, which Saya would have preyed on as she had been doing.

Mato by default would have done anything for Yomi, but remember Saya was already putting the idea in her mind about how to do that.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by dan-heron

like why "Yuu" hasn't aged at all after all these years

Eh?

Originally Posted by ninryu

And this is the saddest part - if only it had a better script, it could be a legendary anime. But they had to fuck it up. In the worst ways. The only thing worth watching in this piece of shit is the actions scenes and hilarious developments. And Yuu.

The days I spent (none) thinking what Guilty Crown and BRS would have been like if they had better scriptwriters...
Well, for one thing, I'd have laughed less, so I can't say it would be a good thing.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by dan-heron

Hmm, actually it seemed she was gearing towards working on Mato, it's more likely she was expecting Deadmaster to die and affect Yomi, which would then be used to mold Mato into what she needed.

No, this makes no sense. If Dead Master died (and Yomi forgot about Mato) Mato would have gone more crazy anyway (even if Yuu didn't send her to the other world) and BRS would have become more powerful and violent.

Kanon is right. What Saya was trying to do is have Dead Master stop (kill) BRS.

"Yuu" (STR) only made matter worse by sending Mato to the other world, but Saya's plan was already screwed by the time BRS killed DM.

[SirusRiddler]

Remember when Black Rock Shooter was just a cool character design for a VOCALOID song with an awesome music video?

Yeah, I miss that. The OVA, anime, and to a certain extent, the game, are just terrible attempts to extrapolate a plot from something that never asked for one.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by SirusRiddler

Remember when Black Rock Shooter was just a cool character design for a VOCALOID song with an awesome music video?

Yeah, I miss that. The OVA, anime, and to a certain extent, the game, are just terrible attempts to extrapolate a plot from something that never asked for one.

Well, at least the Innocent Soul manga is decent.

[Elestia]

The OVA was fine. Sure, the slice of life thing was mediocre, but it was charming in its own way that made me enjoy Mato and Yomi's relationship. The transitions were also jarring, but the actual scenes themselves were well choreographed and fleshed out BRS and DM's characterization very well. Seriously that scene where DM was licking her claws was just spot on. Since they didn't talk, the writers had to let their actions do the speaking for them. Rather than having any real ties to the other world, the OVA just left it up to the viewers interpretation to figure out the connections. But it worked since the BRS lore is basically a void, rather than trying to conjure up some convoluted tie-in. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the anime really tried way too hard on this point. They borrowed a lot of the elements from the OVA, but it felt like they didn't know where to go from there.

[Kanon]

Not much to add to Klashikari and Kazu-kun's posts, except:

Originally Posted by dan-heron

no, Rock killing Deadmaster wouldn't have had any effect on Rock, she only awakened because Mato was aware of what was happening in real time and the stress was what pushed Rock bbeyond. If Mato had only seen Yomi no longer caring for her, she would have been pretty down, which Saya would have preyed on as she had been doing.

After everything we've seen in this show, do you truly think Mato would have simply been "pretty down" if Yomi had completely forgotten about her? No way. She would have gone over the edge just like the others, which is exactly the worst case scenario Saya was trying to avoid.

[SilverSyko]

Last time I checked it's considered a compliment for your works to be considered and made into an animation in Japan. If huke "never asked for it" then we wouldn't have adaptations of the BRS concept in the first place.

Anyway, I'm unable to argue with the script complaints because they are good points, but even with those holes I personally still like the plot for being focused and refraining for going off on ridiculous tangents like so many other plots tend to do. That and I just have a thing for darker and more edgy plots. Lightheartedness and cuteness, while not a bad thing, tends to turn me off in large excessive doses.

But another thing that confuses me is why people are saying they find it funny. What exactly is so funny? Is it because all these characters going insane is all unrealistic? Newsflash people, it's fiction. This show has an alternate world with devilish-looking girls that wield weapons almost twice as large as themselves. If you're expecting realism then I think you're better off trying something else.

[xizro345]

Originally Posted by SirusRiddler

Yeah, I miss that. The OVA, anime, and to a certain extent, the game, are just terrible attempts to extrapolate a plot from something that never asked for one.

I disagree on the game. The story won't win any awards, but it was enjoyable (not to mention while not completely clear, it makes at least sense, something I can't say for the TV series).

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Last time I checked it's considered a compliment for your works to be considered and made into an animation in Japan. If huke "never asked for it" then we wouldn't have adaptations of the BRS concept in the first place.

I'm pretty sure he didn't ask for Dead Master to be redesigned too, but hey it still happened. Should huke still feel honored for that? Many people would love to publish their ideas and receive recognition for their works, but in reality the business model tends to force more "marketable values" into their creations. The demand for the show itself was generated by the fans and they are familiar with the most popular characters (Dead Master, Black Rock Shooter, and Black Gold Saw), but changing Dead Master's design when no one asked for it is an affront to the fans. Is it so hard to at least stick to the original character designs, or is to asking for too much as fans of BRS?

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

But another thing hatt confuses me is why people are saying they find it funny. What exactly is so funny? Is it because all these characters going insane is all unrealistic? Newsflash people, it's fiction. This show has an alternate world with devilish-looking girls that wield weapons almost twice as large as themselves. If you're expecting realism then I think you're better off trying something else.

I really don't have anything to say to this.

[SirusRiddler]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Last time I checked it's considered a compliment for your works to be considered and made into an animation in Japan. If huke "never asked for it" then we wouldn't have adaptations of the BRS concept in the first place.

Anyway, I'm unable to argue with the script complaints because they are good points, but even with those holes I personally still like the plot for being focused and refraining for going off on ridiculous tangents like so many other plots tend to do. That and I just have a thing for darker and more edgy plots. Lightheartedness and cuteness, while not a bad thing, tends to turn me off in large excessive doses.

But another thing that confuses me is why people are saying they find it funny. What exactly is so funny? Is it because all these characters going insane is all unrealistic? Newsflash people, it's fiction. This show has an alternate world with devilish-looking girls that wield weapons almost twice as large as themselves. If you're expecting realism then I think you're better off trying something else.

It's funny because of how incoherent the plot is and how little sense it makes with each episode. I think everyone is fully aware that this show is fiction.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Last time I checked it's considered a compliment for your works to be considered and made into an animation in Japan. If huke "never asked for it" then we wouldn't have adaptations of the BRS concept in the first place.

What kind of argument is this? Do you really think it's not possible to be disappointed with an anime adaptation?

Do you think Yoshitaka was happy with how the Yumekui Merry anime turned out? Do you think Nasu was eternally grateful for the Tsukihime anime?

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

But another thing that confuses me is why people are saying they find it funny. What exactly is so funny? Is it because all these characters going insane is all unrealistic? Newsflash people, it's fiction. This show has an alternate world with devilish-looking girls that wield weapons almost twice as large as themselves. If you're expecting realism then I think you're better off trying something else.

Don't be silly. Realism in character interactions and realism in setting are two different things. No one is expecting BRS or Dead Master or STR or BGS to look like humans or fight like humans, or for that world to look like our cities.

What people are expecting is for Mato, Yomi, Saya, Yuu, etc. to act in a reasonable manner. Fiction or nonfiction, they are human. They are supposed to act, react, and feel in a way similar to how people do. All the word "fiction" implies is that the characters and plot are fabricated and not documented from real life.

Grimdark craziness is fine as long as it makes sense. There is a reason why people don't hate on a character like Homura from Madoka Magica for having a flawed plan while Saya is getting ridiculed.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Elestia

Is it so hard to at least stick to the original character designs, or is to asking for too much as fans of BRS?

Not all of us are extreme purists who are unwilling to allow minor changes and experimentation y'know. Especially with something as insignificant to quality as character design.

If these changes were much more extreme I would agree with you, but they're not.

I really don't have anything to say to this.

Did I say something wrong? I'm merely asking why people are claiming to find this show funny when clearly it's not trying to be.

EDIT: And the reason I'm given just makes me even more confused. I guess it's just I don't think inconsistent writing is that funny, so whatever.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Not all of us are extreme purists who are unwilling to allow minor changes and experimentation y'know. Especially with something as insignificant to quality as character design.

If these changes were much more extreme I would agree with you, but they're not.

BRS's design change is minor. Dead Master's change is significant.

But whatever, opinions and whatnot.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Did I say something wrong? I'm merely asking why people are claiming to find this show funny when clearly it's not trying to be.

See previous post. Fiction does not excuse unnatural character.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Last time I checked it's considered a compliment for your works to be considered and made into an animation in Japan. If huke "never asked for it" then we wouldn't have adaptations of the BRS concept in the first place.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but no, anime adaptation doesn't mean any honor or compliment whatsoever. It spells something less fantastic: "business". And as some people already mentioned, some titles would have been better without anime adaptations nearly ridiculing the original material due to whacky changes and/or poor directing.

As I stated before with the whole design debate: mangaka have little to nothing to say when a studio has bought the licence, which is worse for Huke, since he just designed BRS & co, but didn't make any story or established the brand himself. In fact, Goodsmile Company was the company responsible for the official licencing process for the BRS franchise, with of course Huke as a partner. Past that, Huke has just credits and can be rather seen as an employee in the BRS project brand, and arguably not the producer/marketing chief etc.

But another thing that confuses me is why people are saying they find it funny. What exactly is so funny? Is it because all these characters going insane is all unrealistic? Newsflash people, it's fiction. This show has an alternate world with devilish-looking girls that wield weapons almost twice as large as themselves. If you're expecting realism then I think you're better off trying something else.

Flawed argument: the fact it is fiction doesn't allow the writing to go whatever the scripters want without any cohesion or logic.
Otherwise, why bother giving names to characters? Introducing them as humans? Having school setup etc?
Even more so than simple adaptation of real facts, fictions are stories you have to apply a proper background -and- proper presentation and execution so people would get the idea of the author, as well as follow it without being left with funny "?" over their head. It is exactly because they are fictions that you need a tangible frame for the story and characters as a whole, otherwise it becomes a laughing stock: why bother with speculating with characters intentions etc, when things go 180° without anyone knowing?

Past the fact fiction can bypass what we always see in our reality, they have to stick with their "own reality" otherwise the fiction itself becomes moot, asinine and worthless to follow. That's like justifying Deus Ex Machina and other plot devices plaguing bad stories.

[felix]

Originally Posted by SirusRiddler

are just terrible attempts to extrapolate a plot from something that never asked for one.

I'm still watching as cool characters. Too lazy to think about it as much as some of you seem to be.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Flawed argument: the fact it is fiction doesn't allow the writing to go whatever the scripters want without any cohesion or logic.

Logic can not be proven wrong in fiction until it's complete. Nonsense can easily become fact.

If it's just the style that you don't like... well that's fine then.