2007-10-23, 20:33 | Link #41 |
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As I said, Kyou is just 'ballistic' >.> . Tsundere wasn't a proper word to truly describe her, and yeah, she is basically wild (albeit not to the extent of being an Amazoness...but, riding mopeds is just...).
It is me or this is the only character discussion thread that have the biggest number of posts? (My post already started page 3.) |
2007-10-23, 21:04 | Link #43 | |
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Of course it was my opinion, and so are yours and Klash and everyone elses. Except here, I've also support my opinion that she is one with enough reasoning, provided a widely accepted definition of the word as well as commonly accepted variation of the archtype in the Japanese otaku circle, a publicly voted poll, as well as game material that I'm confident enough to say that my opinion is well supported with more weight than say what Klash and you have said that it may as well be considered a case that is undebatable. otoh, your reasoning is weak because you and Klash went out to redefine the meaning of the word from the beginning to fit your argument, rather than start with the most commonly accepted definition of the word and see whether the character fits. That's just moving the goal post, rather than actually debating on the question at hand.
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2007-10-23, 21:18 | Link #44 |
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Lol at this whole thread if it goes on like this, seriously.
I hope to say 'to each their own' but eh, this seems not to be the case here...but seriously, we are talking about the CURRENT Kyou here, not the later Kyou or anything as of now. As of now, she is just 'tsun' (not the hardcorer 'tsun' but she is going there). |
2007-10-23, 21:22 | Link #45 | |
*(RAWR*)&rawr
Join Date: Dec 2005
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This is exactly why I suggested making "Is Kyou a tsundere?" the poll for this thread. Hehe~ And I guess I'll repost these here for good measure.
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2007-10-23, 21:30 | Link #46 | |
~Night of Gales~
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Personally, I can see the tsundere in Kyou (( pure speculation, but I think it's about 70% obvious she has a thing for Tomoya, dunno about Ryou though )) but talking just 3 episodes in, it's not weird that there are people who think otherwise, what's with the non-united opinions on what defines to them as 'tsundere.'
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2007-10-24, 02:01 | Link #47 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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as for the quote part, I'm really wondering how this "definition" was refined to fit my argument... If i was to stricly use the definition of it, that wouldn't be even possible to apply. "The definition of the term has evolved to apply to not only characters who change from harsh to gentle but who are cold on the outside and kind internally." As far as i can see with the anime version, no, Kyou doesn't change from harsh to Gentle (and as I stated earlier, i'm not even sure if tagging along with Tomoya will really change her)... yet. Of course, things will be confirmed or not, but the first part is of course the "older" version of tsundere, which I think is the closest possible definition for Kyou's case, if she happens to change. (if they involve her romance part, that said) The second part is even less possible to apply, since Kyou doesn't harbor any "hostile" in a sense she is trying to be alone. The fortune telling and the motorbike scenes demonstrated that Kyou is certainly not harboring any aversion to anyone. Cold is arguably what it means, and "violent" might be an extra. But mainly, acting violent isn't synonym of "acting cold". And that's how i can't see Kyou as a "second type" tsundere, because she is hardly hostile, but just wild AND friendly. feel free to claim your opinion anyway, but it doesn't require to dismantle other opinions just because they aren't basing on the same "data" as yours.
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2007-10-24, 02:28 | Link #48 |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
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I don't really understand this other definition some people speak off, but in my case... I'll make it short, a tsundere (to me) is a person who is wild in nature but switches mood like crazy. Take for example, the 3rd picture that KaneDragon posted, Kyou's mood when she threw that dictionary at Sunohara's face was wild, then she became embarrassed when Sunohara commented about something he saw, then switches back to her wild side.
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2007-10-24, 03:01 | Link #49 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Then what's a difference between bipolar and tsundere? |
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2007-10-24, 04:17 | Link #50 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
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2007-10-24, 04:31 | Link #51 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Basically a character who is cold first, but then, as the relationship/interaction is going on, the said character becomes "fluffy". That means it is like a block of ice who melted over the time, and not someone switch here and there. Once it is melted, it is for good. One of the most obvious Tsundere of that type is Tohsaka Rin, from Fate/Stay Night, who is rather fond of her objective alone, but as her interactions with Shirou goes on, she develops a liking towards him. (no mood switch, or very minimal, more caused by her temper rather than her "tsundere" side) there isn't actually a need to "switch" like crazy. As some characters do this (Asuna from Negima, Asuka from Evangelion), other tsundere of the "modern type" are changing mood, but really on peculiar and rare occasions. See Akiha from Tsukihime, who is rarely dere (well... it is relative) that said, I see where you got this definition, though mood swing really depends how the "aggressive" parts is aimed for. In kyou's case (or any girl of that genre), It is rather "normal" that the girl is first embarassed, then try to demolish the "offender" afterwards. In fact, aside of the usual "moe blob" and naive characters, most female anime characters would beat the crap out of the said person..." (tsundere or not) errr... bipolar is somewhat very severe and doesn't follow exactly logic or feelings. Rather, it is quite pathologic... guess the wikipedia article is fine enough for some explanations... The difference is huge, as even a "modern tsundere" (a character being aggressive and lovey dovey all the time, like Louise from ZNT) doesn't act out of the blue. the term "bipolar" is just used too quickly, or rather an analogy how a tsundere looks like. It is more adapted for "Mania-depressive" people.
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2007-10-24, 04:46 | Link #52 |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
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I see now... So unless Kyou really opens up to Tomoya, you wouldn't consider her a tsundere then? Well, no one would be able to convince you unless you play the game. The term you're looking for is there as you can see and it probably wouldn't be in the anime since Tomoya will surely land on Nagisa's palm
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2007-10-24, 04:50 | Link #53 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
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2007-10-24, 04:50 | Link #54 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Even if Kyou opens up to Tomoya, i wouldn't even call her tsundere, until she uses her wild demeanor to "pretend" and staya away from him. (basically, using her wild behaviour to claim a hostile position against him). Right now she is like this for anyone, that's why I believe the wild part of her is rather her personality as a whole, and not "tsundere" because she doesn't act like this to protect something/pretend the opposite of what she is. In such, let's take the example of Hinako of Myself;Yourself who is clearly tsundere, and acts in such manner to feign the opposite of what she is (pretend to be adult, while she is still a kid, obviously). Being pinched with awkward hints she is indeed a kid (receiving a cute figurine), she still keep her "facade" by claiming "it would be a waste to not accept" about something and such. That's how i see a "tsundere moodswing": acting cold, as an attempt to not be close of something, or not exposing themselve. and acting dere when their weak spot is hit, though it is alright to play along. That said, i claimed my view was only from the anime, and i'm far from being able to check her path on the game anyway. Not exactly truth claimed anyway, that was rather my opinion about "wild" demeanor, which is not synonym of "tsundere trait" in my books. my, completely missed the meaning of the remark, my bad >_>"
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2007-10-24, 05:30 | Link #56 |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
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So, unless she denies her feelings or try to pretend in a wild demeanor or wild manner towards Tomoya, you won't consider her tsundere then?
Spoiler:
Well, anyway, tsundere for me is about personality as a whole in a person and not about developing personality in a story. |
2007-10-24, 05:33 | Link #57 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
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Tsundere is about development, or at least a characteristic that appears when you like/love someone. One cannot be a tsundere when one doesn't have a person to be a tsundere at. In other words, tsundere can't be personality as a whole, since it has to have a subject to which it reacts. |
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2007-10-24, 05:44 | Link #59 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
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I think we're going in circle again... But anyway, I'm shourting for my beloved Boke! Let her out already XD |
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2007-10-24, 05:54 | Link #60 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
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