Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Discussion/Poll - Final Episodes!

[pikachuwei]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Watching Nutbladder's 11. Now I'm really pissed.

Spoiler:

If Madoka's "karmic weight" toward Homura is what makes her a crazy super powerful potential Magical Girl, then why did Kyubey ever give a damn about her in the original timeline, when she had zero karmic weight, before Homura even met her? That makes no sense. The entire plot revolves around Kyubey coming to Madoka because she's already the Omega Magical Girl.

This is Highlander II. This is trying to explain something that should be left unexplained and just creating a disaster out of it.

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

The entire reason he met Sayaka was because he was stalking Madoka to activate her inherent powers.

that was only in the current timeline we saw in the season

who knows, in past timelines where madoka wasnt so attractive Sayaka could have y'know, been just another battery for Kyubey?

and also your "ohmahgawd Madoka gets stupidsuperstrong instantly" argument has flaws

1) as stated before, Madoka DID show a general, if uneven power increase throughout the flashbacks in ep 10.

2) the huge leap between Madoka's powers in timeline 4 and the earlier timelines could be explained by teh simple fact that Timeline 4 MAY NOT HAVE TAKEN PLACE DIRECTLY AFTER THE PREVIOUS TIMELINE SHOWN (this goes for all the other timelines shown in ep 10)

As stated in ep 11, homura had gone through countless repetitions, making madoka stronger and stronger in the process. For all we know Homura could have repeated another 10,000,000 timelines in between timeline 3 and timeline 4 of ep 10

[pikachuwei]

and the gretchen of the current timeline is exponentially more powerful than the gretchen in timeline 4, current gretchen covered the entire planet.

[DasDingus]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Watching Nutbladder's 11. Now I'm really pissed.

Spoiler:

If Madoka's "karmic weight" toward Homura is what makes her a crazy super powerful potential Magical Girl, then why did Kyubey ever give a damn about her in the original timeline, when she had zero karmic weight, before Homura even met her? That makes no sense. The entire plot revolves around Kyubey coming to Madoka because she's already the Omega Magical Girl.

This is Highlander II. This is trying to explain something that should be left unexplained and just creating a disaster out of it.

What gave you the idea that Kyubey was specifically interested in Madoka in the original timeline? There was no indication as far as I could tell that she was anything but an average Magical Girl through the first 1-3 timelines. It wasn't until timeline 4 that she showed any kind of special power beyond what was within the realm of normal variance. Now if you're referring to the timeline that the main story encompasses then yes, Kyubey being particularly interested in Madoka is an important plot point but it's also justified at that point given how many times Homura has looped.

[Riga92]

Originally Posted by creb

No. There are plenty of other magical girls. Homura is not alone. You see Kyoko and Mami. The system is still in place. They just no longer turn into witches. Unless the twist is they turn into demons now. I kid, I kid. About the turning into demons part.

While yes Kyoko and Mami reappear, after you watch the credits, it shows Homura in a desert (post-apocalyptic?) seemingly all alone, fighting the demons. While there may be still other Puella Magi, the scene seems to imply that Homura is the only one left.

[pikachuwei]

^OR homura was just fighting demons in a desert. XD

i mean as long as the human race exists, kyubey and co will be able to contract more MGs so homu dying isnt that bad.

and if the human race went extinct there wouldnt be demons, as they are born from the accumulated grief of humans.

[Makender]

Originally Posted by creb

I suppose that's how it's supposed to be interpreted, though it would seem to negate Madoka transcending space and time for all eternity taking on all that grief and despair. Meh. Not gonna let this take away from a great series. I'm sure even a generic shonen-like Magica spinoff will be better than 9/10th of what is aired these days anyways.

Well Madoka didn't wish for grief and despair to be entirely negated. She just wished that witches should never be born in the future or past, thus changing the system, and having the direct of effect of relieving all magical girls of their burden (grief/despair).

Although this now makes me wonder what a wish of no grief and despair in the world would accomplish. I suppose witches would continue to exist from depletion of magic, but I also think they're a direct result of accumulated grief and despair. Bleh its too complex to think if that would better change the system or not.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by omimon

Yea that makes sense but then that raises another question. If everything got reset then how did Homura get to this new world without her time space powers? If she was reborn in the new world with her memories then does that mean she turned back in a normal girl but contracted again to protect the world? Since witches don't exist but curses still do then does that mean Madoka have no jurisdiction over this new world?

Let me see if I can word this differently...Remember Homura's original wish was to go back in time to protect Madoka, However since Madoka transcended to god hood and has become part of the universe itself the nature of Homura's wish and powers have also changed. This means that Homura is no longer has the power of a time traveler but a kind of lets say an angel whos powers are strong enough to protects the universe wherever it's needed.

[octoberasian]

Now, I've been a fan of this genre since... Sailor Moon came out.

My thoughts on this, is that this is by far the best of the mahou shoujo genre that I have seen in years. The ending was actually very good, and also keeps it somewhat open. This anime is going to be ranked high in my list among other mahou shoujo animes I've enjoyed watching in the the past couple decades. The characters were likeable, the animation was unique and artistic in some ways. And, the story was much different than what I've seen in other mahou shoujo series.

Spoiler:

Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler

Spoiler:

(Stop if you haven't seen Ep 11 and 12 yet.)
As for the show itself...

Spoiler:

Madoka's wish was unexpected because I expected something along the lines of her erasing the ability to become magical girls or something similar. She took a more abrupt and direct approach to saving them from being witches, and that surprised me even allowing them to remain magical girls.

At the very least, none of the magical girls will have to suffer now.

But, poor Homura. I truly think she loved Madoka a lot more than this anime has shown. It hinted at it in some way in the last episode and towards the end of episode 11. And, I wonder if Madoka realized it seeing how much Homura has went through trying to save her.

I'd post more but don't want to spoil it for others that haven't seen it yet.

[Malkuth]

well played QB, should you not warn Madoka that without magic girls humanity would still live in caves, she could have made a wilder wish (say for his race to disappear, or infinite energy, or for everyone to be happy and content, etc).

Anyway, at least she sacrificed herself (Jesus-style), redeeming herself for all the inaction and angst during the main time-line

Oh! and Homura just got pawned for remembering Madoka, therefore unable to benefit from her sacrifice, unlike Kyouko, and Mami... speaking of which, why did she survive, her death was not because of Madoka

Overall, very good ending, and show, storytelling and pacing were excellent, and I don't see any gaping plot-holes... well except Mami, but I might have missed something.

PS: How the Hell people can say that this was a "deus ex machina" ending!? There was an 11-episode built-up to Madoka's wish and deification!!!

[J the Drafter]

To be honest, the ending was disappointing to me. The situation got resolved not through Madoka's effort and will, but by manipulation of a narrative device that could by nature handle anything asked of it. I wanted Madoka (and Homura) to gain their ending by working for it, especially since wishes were built up as things that can have no happy outcome. I still like the show, and I'm grateful for the precedent it's set for the magical girl genre, but I wanted a better ending.

[pikachuwei]

i think if people who have only watched the raws watched the subbed versions, a lot of the confusion will disappear

as for me im still a bit puzzled by Homura's new role (Wings??) in the end. Is she just another powerful Magical girl, or is she something more?

also, has 2Chan crashed yet? XD

Originally Posted by Malkuth

well played QB, should you not warn Madoka that without magic girls humanity would still live in caves, she could have made a wilder wish (say for his race to disappear, or infinite energy, or for everyone to be happy and content, etc).

Anyway, at least she sacrificed herself (Jesus-style), redeeming herself for all the inaction and angst during the main time-line

Oh! and Homura just got pawned for remembering Madoka, therefore unable to benefit from her sacrifice, unlike Kyouko, and Mami... speaking of which, why did she survive, her death was not because of Madoka

Overall, very good ending, and show, storytelling and pacing were excellent, and I don't see any gaping plot-holes... well except Mami, but I might have missed something.

PS: How the Hell people can say that this was a "deus ex machina" ending!? There was an 11-episode built-up to Madoka's wish and deification!!!

mami was killed by a witch. Madoka's wish removed the existence of witches hence mami didnt die

[Elestia]

After the amount of hype and tension surround the ending, I felt that the finale of the series was a bit underwhelming. That is not to say the ending wasn't satisfied in a conclusive manner, but the overall emotional impact wasn't too heart wrenching or sad really. Although, Madoka's wish does help give Magical Girls the end they desire, which is not regretting their wishes. All the magical girls ended up dieing/disappearing to maintain their own personal beliefs and will. It's the bittersweet ending I had really hoped for to end the series.

QB seemed become much more tolerable considering she hanging around with Homura, thanks to the rearrangement of the universe.

Not too happy with how Sayaka ended up. Both Kamijou and Hitomi can go die in a fire for all I care, worst childhood friend and "girl" friend ever.

On a last note, anyone catch in the very end of the final episode, where Homura starts growing some cosmic shadow wings behind her back, that there were some of the strings of fate being being broken, referenced by QB previously?

[octoberasian]

Originally Posted by pikachuwei

mami was killed by a witch. Madoka's wish removed the existence of witches hence mami didnt die

And...

Spoiler:

... since Kyouko died by Sayaka as a witch, and Madoka eliminated witches past/present/future/all universes, Kyouko lives too.

Unfortunately, Sayaka still dies but at the very least this time, she didn't become a witch.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by pikachuwei

as for me im still a bit puzzled by Homura's new role (Wings??) in the end. Is she just another powerful Magical girl, or is she something more?

I'll just quote darkwind because it makes a lot of sense to me

Remember Homura's original wish was to go back in time to protect Madoka, However since Madoka transcended to god hood and has become part of the universe itself the nature of Homura's wish and powers have also changed. This means that Homura is no longer has the power of a time traveler but a kind of lets say an angel whos powers are strong enough to protects the universe wherever it's needed.

[pikachuwei]

Originally Posted by J the Drafter

To be honest, the ending was disappointing to me. The situation got resolved not through Madoka's effort and will, but by manipulation of a narrative device that could by nature handle anything asked of it, especially since every other wish ended in despair. I wanted Madoka (and Homura) to gain their ending by working for it. I still like the show, and I'm grateful for the precedent it's set, but I wanted a better ending.

The situation DID get resolved by Madoka's will in a way, Madoka had to have the will to resign herself to an eternity of saving MGs in infinite timelines and such. Basically like Homu's timeloops but worse. She also had to be ready to be erased from existance, remembered by none of her loved ones except Homura. That requires a lot of determination

[Proto]

I'm satisfied with the ending myself. However since I have a deadline tomorrow I don't feel like writing a lengthy post explaining why so I'll just expect people remembering my post style from the past and filling in the gaps.

[Helmet-kun]

This isn't the last we'll see of Homerun-chan. At least, with that sort of ending, we might see the cast (Fingers crossed for the whole cast) show up again for another season.

Though, I read some where (on here, too lazy to dig up post) that it might be a slice of life. I wonder how many people would watch that?

[atua]

Originally Posted by Makender

Although this now makes me wonder what a wish of no grief and despair in the world would accomplish. I suppose witches would continue to exist from depletion of magic, but I also think they're a direct result of accumulated grief and despair. Bleh its too complex to think if that would better change the system or not.

Removing all despair and grief wouldn't be an ideal long term solution either. Cleansing demons, even after the removal of witches from the system, help solve QB's entropy issue, even if it's a much less efficient method than before.

[kk2extreme]

no grief and despair in the world = evagelion ending (original movie)

[totoum]

Originally Posted by pikachuwei

The situation DID get resolved by Madoka's will in a way, Madoka had to have the will to resign herself to an eternity of saving MGs in infinite timelines and such. Basically like Homu's timeloops but worse. She also had to be ready to be erased from existance, remembered by none of her loved ones except Homura. That requires a lot of determination

And she was only able to make that wish because she had an incredible amount of power that she had because Homura repeated the timeline countless times instead of just giving up so I'd say she did some pretty hard work.