Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[xizro345]

My copy is finally here! (with other things) While I'm sure the movie has been discussed to death, I'll try to make a theatrical / BD comparison post once I see it.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by xizro345

My copy is finally here! (with other things) While I'm sure the movie has been discussed to death, I'll try to make a theatrical / BD comparison post once I see it.

Same here....

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Keroko]

That glorious, glorious necklace.

I jelly. ;_;

[bhl88]

I bought it as soon as I saw it (middleman'd).

[xizro345]

Actual contents of the Special Edition:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Pencil_P]

Hello, before I get onto the main part of this post that I hope will not make me look as if I've been hit by Vita's hammer one too many times, I would like to state my own biases. This is mainly so you know where I stand in relation to the whole franchise. Personally I prefer Strikers and I have been since the first series a Fate person. Now A's was good but it certainly wasn't my favourite. So onto the film.

I'm sorry to say that I found it rather disappointing. I didn't hate it as much as some have but I was left extremely unenthralled. Most of my complaints will probably seem familiar as they have been covered by others like Nanyo.

The first half was particularly bad with many scenes having nearly all their impact taken out an plot changes leaving holes you could shoot a plasma zamber through. The former can be best seen with Fate's rescue of Nanoha. Both of them feel seriously worfed here, no actual rescue and no Nanoha blasting away. The plot holes are partly a result of taking out Graham. Now this could have worked but it would require better quality writing than this film has. It tries to explain away how Hayate is ale o live on her own but I'm still left wondering, even with the fortune wouldn't the authorities have give her some kind of legal guardian or is that the Book of Darkness' job. And it also makes Reinforces attempts to kill our two heroines seem utterly confusing. Why? In the series it made sense do to Lotte and Aria but here she goes on about her master's wish without there being any reason for Hayate to be angry at them. Is someone just annoyed at the screen time their getting?

Then you have Chrono. Was there a point to having his thoughts over the past brought up (and the death of his father was nowhere near as good as it was before) if they are gong to do nothing with it. It seemed as the staff put it in then forgot about it. A bit like a certain character we saw in the library, you know his name?
I wasn't surprised that Arisa and Suzuka got very little screen time and as minor characters I can understand this.

The Wolkenritter, okay I generally regard them as rather unsympathetic but at least in the show what they did made some kind of sense. Here they are a bunch of overly hostile idiots. I was glad when they got taken out.

One scene that is rather contentious is Feito's dream. I would have don it differently but I would not take it out (unless another major change was made that would probably have many fans wanting me dead). Why? Because it deals with something that is of vital importance to her character, her feelings over her old family. Now I would be fine with some of Fate's other stuff being cut, such as the implied yuri or even some of her action.

In terms of overall quality the dream scene was quite well done and I think, taken on it's own, was one of the best.

The music was a letdown, the end song was okay but the song playing during the battle against Nachtwall was insipid.

It is not all bad visually it's good and I did like how the book activated. It was also good that the final battle actually had the thing fighting back.

Another complaint I have is also one I could ay about the series so it would perhaps be inaproppriate to bring it up here.

My rating, average and that's generous.

I'll add more after I watched it for a second time (when reviewing it's usually best to watch things twice, something I neglected to do here).

I'd like to say a few things in its defence now, which I know sounds odd considering how much complaining I've done, but I can understand why some of the decisions were made even if I don't like their results.

Probably one of the largest complaints that many have had is the lack of screen time for certain characters. Now this is understandable, it's easy to see why people would be annoyed when their favourites get reduced down to bit parts. But we need to remember that they are working within a limited time and it is almost inevitable that some things are going to be cut. It is better that they cut the less important roles than the main ones. I would have liked to have seen more of Arf but she was a side character and her reduced screen time made sense (even if I don't like the result).

Now the film did make the mistake of lacking development for Nanoha. Now it's fine to lack development for the side roles but she is rather important and it wouldn't have taken much to expand on her motivations. Chrono though was if anything even worse. If they had just reduced his part and left out the stuff about his father, fine, it would be a pity to lose that part of the story but I could understand it. Instead they brought it up then left it unresolved. Ah, I was meant to be defending it and I've started complaining again, sorry.

With the plot vs characterisation argument that has sprung up, especially concerning a certain dream sequence, I'm of the opinion that it's best if you can develop both in a scene but I'm not against taking a few moments out of the plot for the sake of characterisation if it is a particularly important aspect that is being dealt with and the character is a main one. I've described below an idea on how the scene could be done and tied into the plot or at least outside events more.

so when it comes to deciding what to leave in and take out it comes down I think to the following.
Does it move the story forward or does it provide important information about an important character that could not be done better another way?

[Demi.]

Still editing your review? Seems incomplete near the bottom. I am interested to know what this "other scene" you speak of is, though.

[Kaijo]

Pencil P, you are one of the most level-headed Fate fans I have seen in a long while, and I have to say it is refreshing. It's rare to find someone who has such a favorite, and yet can honestly evaluate a movie on it's actual subject matter, other characters, and technical merit, without letting a bias overwhelm their judgment. Given how Roger Ebert recently passed away, such critical film analysis reminds me of how I miss people like him.

So, kudos to you!

[xizro345]

I still think people are overthinking on this movie, as well elevating A's TV series to heights that never reached. But since it's a minefield to discuss such issues, I'll just go into detail of the BD, which I have seen last night.

Sadly, most of the poor animation parts weren't fixed at all from the threatrical release. Save a part near the ending in which Lindy's face is slightly redrawn, I haven't seen any noticeable fixes. The transfer of BD, which is good, also amplifies the problem, since you're seeing more details than you probably should. The subtitle track is kind of...decent I guess. There are a some details left off, and some sentences have a sort of "creative" translation.

The biggest letdown comes from the extras, which are way poor for a so-called Special Edition. Aside the usual (like in the first movie) Subaru + Teana commentary track, the special disc offers trailers and commercials, footage of the ACE2012 event, footage of various events during the premiere and events done a month later (including the very theater I went to see it, like a few days afterwards). There's a sort of talk show with the cast as special feature as well. Most of the stuff isn't informative or interesting at all. Seems that they put it in just to have something in.

The only redeeming parts are two hilarious mini picture drama of shows that supposedly have to air on "Belkan TV" and "Mildchilda TV". Both deal with magical girl shows. The first features the Volkenritter and Hayate as main characters (Rein included) with a re-imagined setting. The second one has Shamal ("Magical Shamal") as main character, with the rest of the Volkenritter as the bad guys.

Even the menus, which should be at least eye-catching, are somewhat lazily done.

In short, discussion on overpiced JP BDs aside, the Special Edition of the second movie, unlike the first one, isn't worth the extra price at all. And I'm not sure the Super Special Edition is worth it, as well.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Pencil P, you are one of the most level-headed Fate fans I have seen in a long while, and I have to say it is refreshing. It's rare to find someone who has such a favorite, and yet can honestly evaluate a movie on it's actual subject matter, other characters, and technical merit, without letting a bias overwhelm their judgment. Given how Roger Ebert recently passed away, such critical film analysis reminds me of how I miss people like him.

So, kudos to you!

Yeah, it was a good post. He just needs to pay more attention to the names of his fellow Nanofans. (It's Nanya, not Nanyo )

[FRS]

Having watched it i found the movie average, it was technically well done but alot of what was cut was what i found interesting in the serie in the first place.

[hiroaki4nanoha]

I'm sick of people complainig its a movie that's created for the sole purpose of merchindizing and making money. I love nanoha it was and still is my favorite anime and has been since I was 15. I know eveyone complains about how fast paced it is but we all know their trying their best to fit 13 episodes into two and a half hours of screen time do you have any idea how difficult that is?!

Now onto my initial thoughts, I liked it in regards to its movie continuity and as a remake of A's. The animation was outsatanding as is expected from a theatrical anime film. I loved the devive designs and was happy to see Vita get a better looking rocket form. The only one I'm upset about is Hayate who's Kinght Armor recieved even less alterations then the Wollkenritter. I'm also pissed by the fact that she did not get her own theme, though her transformation sequence was slightly longer and better then her original so I guess that's a plus. i do agree with a lot of people that this movie did not give enough attention to charcter development, particuarly for Hayate, Reinforce Eins, the Wolkenritter, and of course Fate. But what did you expect with everything that needed to happen in the movie a bigger prority, considering both the original A's and this movie as an observer you need to be able to fill the holes in yourself and not be expected to be shown everything. For example at 52 minutes into the movie we have a small flash back where the wolkenritter first appear on the night the book is activated here we actually see Reinforce, and understand that Hayate technically does have some understanding and awareness of Reinforce and even Nachtwal but she for gets which is technically impossible. people technically don't forget anything we have the psyche capacity to remeber everything we have ever learned we just lack the necassary diciplines to have constant access to that knowledge with out deep meditation practices. Now I'm not saying this is true for the Nanoha universe as it is a work of fiction but it does have some merit when you consider what is said here and what Hayate says later when Nanoha faces reinforce.
Here is a dialouge of the Flash back,

Reinforce: Hello Good Morning. My first time to meet you. I am the Unison Device... of this Tome of the Night Sky. You have officially become our master just now. The Tome of the Night Sky and its four Knights will offer you wisdom and power.We are here to serve you.

Hayate: U..m... Okay...
Reinforce: There is so much I would like two tell you. But once you wake from this slumber, you shall forget most of what I have told you.

Hayate: I will? Actually it feels so strange. I feel like I've know you.

Reinforce: In the form of this book, I have always been by your side since you were small.

hayate: Oh I see. Huh What's this?

Reinforce: You're rising from your slumber, I may never be able to see you agian. So may i ask you this? The kind Kinghts have been... fighting agianst their will. Please show them kindness And foremost I wish for your happiness.

later at the end when Hayate wakes up during the battle she tells reinforce that she remebers and is aware of what has been happening however this occured in the original A's dialouge too so I won't post it. But this added scene from the movie sort of supports Hayate's staement of remberence.

Sorry I'm not going to put script actions only what is said plus everyone reading these should have watched the movie by now, I was happy that some people put it on youtube as I can't afford any of the discs right now. I will say though that the subtitles for this film at least the ones I saw on the video posted on youtube were horendous! I really hope they are not the official ones because if they are Seven Arcs is really slacking. They are so many mis translations in them and the wolkinritter device dialouge is not technically translated but simply romanjied. i will say that they do use more correct German in the movie then they did in the anime which is good. The battles were good though the confrontations between Signum and Fate in all regards was not as expansive as nanoha's and Vita's was. The battle with reinforce was outstanding I think that is where they put all their effort into this and the hellish landscape that is created sets the mood perfectly. I like how in the movie we can say or at least i believe the reason Reinforce is fighting nanoha and Fate so hard isn't because she hates them but rather she is trying to grant hayate a peacful slumberous death rather then a painful one at the hands of nachtwal and the only way reinforce can stay in control long enough for this to happen before nachtwal to ge berserk is to fight our heroes. We could also assume that deep down reinforce knows or is hoping that nanoha and her comrades have found a way to save hayate and stop nachtwal. One minor thing that did upset me in regards to nanoha was how it is stated in A's that her use of the Exerion mode could put both her and Raising Heart's life on the line as the stress form usung that much magic and mana consumption would have been great. However this is not brought up in the Movie. It is something small I know and would have only taken a minute of screen time to explain but it wasn't there oh well. As far as music goes I was disappointed at first. First Sano Hiroaki the original composer for the nanoha series up until the movie 1st left the nanoha project team and his place was filled by Misa Chujo. She did good her best tracks by far in my opinon were "Dear My sister Dear My Memory" where Alicia and fate part in the dream and fate goes to save Nanoha and the other track was "Eien no Kizuna" played when reinforce departs at the end (who else cried, come on you know you did.) The others were great too but in terms of musical composition and symphonic quality these two were the best. I also loved how in the track titled Hoshikatta Jikan which is played at the beginnig of the dream scene sequences incorporated elements of Watashi no Okkasan by Hiroaki from the first movie. You can here the rythm of that piano theme at about 2:30 onward in the track. It made me really happy that she included elements of her predecessor's compositions at least somewhere i wish she had done that a little more. (For those who might have forgotten Watashi no Oka-san is the piano track that plays during fate's flash backs during her fight with Nanoha in the second half of the movie 1st.) Nana Mizuki's music Bright Stream and sacred Force were awasome nothing less from my favorite singer. I'm not upset about the Graham family getting excluded i idn't really like them anyway.

All in all i think as a fan i loved this nothing beats more Nanoha. i think you can't complain, as an observer you must accept what the creaters feel is what should be done. If Masaki Tsuzuki felt it was best this way then i agree I feel if you can't appreciate a story and respect the creator and his intentions and encompass the story as a whole for what it is then you are not a true fan and a poor audience. Once you loose your ability to appreciate stories like these and go around jading and rating everything, then your just a critic and a critic is not always right and is too focused on analysing negative and positive rather then accepting and contemplating the as is. Even the things that I said sure so this was ghood and this was bad ultimately this doesn't really matter to me it doesn't mean anything as fan and a story writer and teller myself their is no reason to really say what is bad or good but merely that I appreciate and am thankful for the story that is Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha.

Mr.Tsuzuki thank you for providing me with a way to get by all the dead days. keep up the good work and know that i am joyously awating the Movie 3rd reflection.

[Pencil_P]

Thanks for the kind comments on my review, I wrote it at about 4.30am which may explain some errors (like Nanya's name). I guess I should have waited till the morning when my brain didn't feel it was recovering from a starlight breaker. Anyway I may edit my review more but to be honest I would probably need to watch 2nd A's again.

I try when reviewing to look beyond my own biases, yes, I like Fate but I can see why fans of other characters feel left out.

Regarding the other scene Demi, I presume you mean the change I suggested. Well first off I request that my fellow likers of Miss Testarossa switch their devices to stun mode. Have you all done that? Good.

What if we took her out as a main character and give Fate's role to Chrono, who does have more reason to be involved in this case. Now don't kill me (please, put down Bardiche) so this film deals with the other characters and then us Fate fans get the third movie to look at how she overcomes her past. It could have an investigation into the work of a certain mad scientist.

Now let me be clear I don't want to see her removed but this is just an idea.

As for how I would have done her dream differently. I would have cut it more and tie it into what was going on outside. Imagine this.

Suppose sometime shortly after fate waits up but before she gets out of bed, we cut to a short shot of Nanoha shielding one of Reinforce's spells. Explosion then cut back to Fate, falling back on her bed in shock calling out "Nanoha". The others around her have no idea who that is. Fate apoliies and Arf asks if she had a bad dream. Fate replies that she thinks she did and Alicia asks if it was scary. Linith tells them to get ready as Precia is waiting.

Later, just as Fate is about to approach the table she reacts to something in the distance. In the skies beyond she catches a brief glimpse of Nanoha flying past a tree.

Cut to Nanoha and Reinforce fighting, again Nanoha narrowly avoids being hit. cut back to Fate reacting in shock, is to what happened to Nanoha or to Precia touching her?

With the final scene of the dream, I would have had Fate say to Alicia that she loves her, Precia and Linith but that she has new family members (Lindy and Chrono) as well as her friends and she can't abandon them.

Oh and is it me or is Reinforce's voice damn sexy. Talking about Reinforce, is it really a good idea to grant all of Hayate's wishes. I can imagine her saying "Even the one where you cosplay as Suigintou ".

[bhl88]

Actually contents of the Super Special edition:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Keroko]

Three discs? What's on the other ones?

[bhl88]

Lyrical party IV. Extras. And the Movie. Contents of the three discs.

[Hoki]

Originally Posted by Pencil_P

As for how I would have done her dream differently. I would have cut it more and tie it into what was going on outside. Imagine this.

Suppose sometime shortly after fate waits up but before she gets out of bed, we cut to a short shot of Nanoha shielding one of Reinforce's spells. Explosion then cut back to Fate, falling back on her bed in shock calling out "Nanoha". The others around her have no idea who that is. Fate apoliies and Arf asks if she had a bad dream. Fate replies that she thinks she did and Alicia asks if it was scary. Linith tells them to get ready as Precia is waiting.

Later, just as Fate is about to approach the table she reacts to something in the distance. In the skies beyond she catches a brief glimpse of Nanoha flying past a tree.

Cut to Nanoha and Reinforce fighting, again Nanoha narrowly avoids being hit. cut back to Fate reacting in shock, is to what happened to Nanoha or to Precia touching her?

With the final scene of the dream, I would have had Fate say to Alicia that she loves her, Precia and Linith but that she has new family members (Lindy and Chrono) as well as her friends and she can't abandon them.

This has got to be the best idea for the movie that I've read. Kudos to you sir.

Originally Posted by Pencil_P

Oh and is it me or is Reinforce's voice damn sexy.

Not only is Reinforce's voice damn sexy, Reinforce IS damn sexy.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Hoki

This has got to be the best idea for the movie that I've read. Kudos to you sir.

It is a very cool idea, yes.

[xizro345]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Actually contents of the Super Special edition:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

That reinforces my idea neither edition is worth its asking price. While I like the movie, the BD version is surely disappointing (save the mini picture dramas).

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Oh wow... I totaly didn't realise that Fate's cloak was white in her Blaze Form.
Well, maybe it's a little homage to the white cloak she has in her StrikerS Impulse Form