Sakurasou - Character Discussion - Shiina Mashiro

[Pellissier]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Shiina Mashiro related.

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[FlareKnight]

Pure, comedy gold this one .

But on top of the hilarity, I do like how she absolutely knows what she wants to do. Seems like the character who just gets what is important and not just when it comes to herself.

And yeah, cute as hell .

[Shadow5YA]

She's got to be causing all those misunderstandings on purpose.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

She's got to be causing all those misunderstandings on purpose.

This is why she is a genius not her drawings haha

[NoemiChan]

....uhm.. I don't know.... she's quite, she talks less.... but cute... and gifted.. and cute...

[Kyuu]

There is one paradox with this girl:

It's impossible for a girl to be cute -- and socially inept at the same time. If I am wrong, find a real example please.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

There is one paradox with this girl:

It's impossible for a girl to be cute -- and socially inept at the same time. If I am wrong, find a real example please.

My niece =_=

Alway needs people to do things for her.

Every time she acts cute my parents heart will melt.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

She's got to be causing all those misunderstandings on purpose.

At first, I was about 95% sure that, no, she really was that oblivious.

But lately, I'm not so sure...

They're happening a bit too frequently, and with increasingly suspicious timing. A lot of them give romantic competitors the "wrong" idea which I could see Mashiro wanting to give them.

At the moment, it's 50/50 for me on whether she's really this obvious vs. she's insanely clever and a great actress who's very effectively trying to demoralize the romantic opposition.

[Chaos2Frozen]

If Nanami is the one to keep him grounded and sane, Mashiro is really the driving force for Sorata and the one who subtly nudge him forward in the right direction whenever he reaches a roadblock in his life. Everyone thought that it would be Sorata who would influence Mashiro to become a better/normal person, but as it turns out it was Mashiro who is influencing and gently pushing Sorata to be a better person himself, and she does so with small but earnest gestures. She ability to never lose sight of the important things to her and never hesitate to put the concerns of others ahead of her own- as we saw how she was more worried for Nanami rather than the Manga that she had worked day and night for.

Mashiro's downside is pretty obvious; her inability to take care of herself would be a big cause for concern But in a way it also helps highlight another of her good point- While she doesn't care much about taking care of herself, when it comes to helping others she would go the extra mile (literally) for them.

I think one of the major factors that makes both Mashiro and Nanami so likeable is that unlike other romantic interest, both of them actually care about the Protagonist as more than just a love partner- Sure there's still that, but they do it mostly because they want what's best for him, and not so that he would show affections to them. What's more, their entire lives does not rotate around just Sorata- they each have their own dreams to work towards.

[Insane]

At first glance, she looks like an innocent cat that begs to be petted on the head. Man, i envy sorata. . .

[Tempester]

What is Mashiro's mental condition anyway? Most people say she's autistic. Is this true?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Tempester

What is Mashiro's mental condition anyway? Most people say she's autistic. Is this true?

My personal take is that she's a person who has just never been taught or trained to take care of herself, and has never seen the need to spend her time doing "unnecessary" things (why clean up if it's just going to get messy again? etc.). She may also have some degree of hyperfocus, which is actually rather common with highly-gifted individuals in many fields. So I think she's eccentric, but whether she actually has a diagnosable condition... who knows. The way she's played up in certain scenes in the anime may make some think so, but in other scenes they suggest that isn't really the case.

In the end, I really think the author of the story was probably going for "eccentric genius" more than any sort of mental/psychological condition, despite the way some elements are sometimes played up.

[MisaoFan]

Despite being autistic as fuck, she's quite a genius. Sure she's eccentric and cause a lot of problems towards her roommates, but there's something that makes her somewhat capable on her own. Her character development was decent enough, and I can't wait to see how much her romantic relationship with Sorata progresses over the course of the story.

[Sumeragi]

Whenever I see the term autism around, I wonder if it's just the usual stupid ignorance that we see when it comes to mental conditions. Really, do people actually know what autism really is, or are they just speaking like a recorder the wrong perception given by various media?


Mashiro is just eccentric, being focused on her work to the point she doesn't really care about anything else. It's as simple as that, not something like autism which is a condition that would certainly not help with art or manga.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Whenever I see the term autism around, I wonder if it's just the usual stupid ignorance that we see when it comes to mental conditions.

I myself have an autistic cousin. Growing up, I saw him a few times a year. No, Mashiro's condition is not as severe as his, but there are striking similarities. He himself has one of the more severe cases of autism (he'll always need a caretaker), so Mashiro might be reasonably close to a milder case of autism.

I really reject the notion that Mashiro is simply eccentric. No, there are noticeable patterns to her behavior, perception of the world around her, and style of speech, that are highly unusual for a person her age. She definitely has some sort of condition, imo.

Personally, I lean towards Savant syndrome.

Mashiro is just eccentric, being focused on her work to the point she doesn't really care about anything else. It's as simple as that, not something like autism which is a condition that would certainly not help with art or manga.

I completely disagree. And again, I speak as someone who has an autistic cousin, so I'm familiar with the condition.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I completely disagree. And again, I speak as someone who has an autistic cousin, so I'm familiar with the condition.

In the end, how is this such a complete disagreement (your appeal to authority notwithstanding)? "Savant Syndrome" is not a mental disorder, it's just a way of classifying people who have really exceptional skills in one area in contrast to demonstrated weaknesses in other areas (such as social skills). So how is that actually so "completely different" from what Sumeragi was saying -- that she is "just eccentric, being focused on her work to the point she doesn't really care about anything else"? It's basically just semantics on whether you choose to call this "eccentric" or whether you choose to use a term like "savant syndrome" (which isn't really a syndrome). In either case, it doesn't show the signs of autism, and likely wouldn't get classed as a mental disease. I'm not sure why it's so important to put a label on it. She's unusual, but not unhealthy.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

In the end, how is this such a complete disagreement (your appeal to authority notwithstanding)? "Savant Syndrome" is not a mental disorder, it's just a way of classifying people who have really exceptional skills in one area in contrast to demonstrated weaknesses in other areas (such as social skills). So how is that actually so "completely different" from what Sumeragi was saying -- that she is "just eccentric, being focused on her work to the point she doesn't really care about anything else"?

Eccentric is too vague a term, and can apply to people that simply have colorful personalities.

I mean, you could legitimately call Haruhi Suzumiya "eccentric", but I would argue that Haruhi has a level of functionality that goes beyond what Mashiro has displayed.

Mashiro has real issues in clearly communicating with other people, and in expressing herself. One way we see this is in the great plethora of misunderstandings that she causes. And there are distinct patterns to her behavior.

Also, about 50% of the people with Savant syndrome are also autistic, and I'd personally say that there's probably a 50% chance that Mashiro is autistic herself. So for that reason and many others, I find it fitting to say that yes, she has Savant syndrome.

Also, and I'm going to be frank here, I take real exception to this implicit idea that Mashiro would somehow be less of a character if she in fact has autism. What's wrong with a female lead in an anime show having autism?

In either case, it doesn't show the signs of autism, ...

Mashiro does show some of the symptoms of autism.

Taken from here:

Significant problems developing nonverbal communication skills, such as eye-to-eye gazing, facial expressions, and body posture. (Mashiro displays very little in the way of facial expressions or body language)

Failure to establish friendships with children the same age. (It doesn't seem like Mashiro had many friends prior to coming to Sakurasou)

Lack of interest in sharing enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people. (this has changed, but it wasn't always so; even now, Mashiro often gets lost in her own little world)

Lack of empathy. People with autism may have difficulty understanding another person's feelings, such as pain or sorrow. (this is also changing, thankfully, but Mashiro initially tends to have a hard time understanding the feelings of others)

Delay in, or lack of, learning to talk. As many as 40% of people with autism never speak. (Here we'd need to know more about Mashiro's personal background)

Problems taking steps to start a conversation. Also, people with autism have difficulties continuing a conversation after it has begun. (Mashiro does struggle in starting or carrying on conversations)

Stereotyped and repetitive use of language. People with autism often repeat over and over a phrase they have heard previously (echolalia). (Mashiro does show a preference for very simplified and straightforward language)

Difficulty understanding their listener's perspective. For example, a person with autism may not understand that someone is using humor. They may interpret the communication word for word and fail to catch the implied meaning. (We see a lot of this with Mashiro)

An unusual focus on pieces. Younger children with autism often focus on parts of toys, such as the wheels on a car, rather than playing with the entire toy. (This one is a bit iffier, but we do see how Mashiro likes to break down manga to its component parts, and understand key parts of it before moving forward with it)

Preoccupation with certain topics. For example, older children and adults may be fascinated by video games, trading cards, or license plates. (Mashiro definitely has a preoccupation with certain topics)

A need for sameness and routines. For example, a child with autism may always need to eat bread before salad and insist on driving the same route every day to school. (I definitely think that Mashiro displays comfort over routine.)

Stereotyped behaviors. These may include body rocking and hand flapping. (This one doesn't really apply to Mashiro, I'll admit)


Looking over that, I think there's good reason to think that Mashiro is autistic.

[Sumeragi]

Food for thought: Prince Naruhito (and particularly his grandfather, the Showa Tenno) had many of the same problems you just described when growing up. It wasn't because of their having autism, it was because of the kind of upbringing they had, within a closed environment which either had strict rules or was overly served to the point one would not know how to peel a satsuma orange in their bento.

Considering this, we have to think: What kind of childhood did Mashiro have? Could it be that her life was literally only about art (either by her own choice or other's push) and thus she never had the kind of "normal" life consisting of social interactions? If this is so, then one cannot say she has autism symptoms since it isn't that she has an inability, but she never developed those skills which one would have under a normal childhood environment. Autism is fundamentally an inherent problem of impairment of the growth and development of the brain, and I cannot see that Mashiro has a problem in that particular aspect.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Food for thought: Prince Naruhito (and particularly his grandfather, the Showa Tenno) had many of the same problems you just described when growing up. It wasn't because of their having autism,

Actually, how do we know this?

I recall reading that Japan doesn't treat people for mental conditions to the same extent that we do in the western world. In fact, I've even read that given as a reason, here on Anime Suki, for why so many psychologically disturbed characters in anime never seek out psychiatric help or get treatment in line with certain mental conditions.

Considering this, we have to think: What kind of childhood did Mashiro have? Could it be that her life was literally only about art (either by her own choice or other's push) and thus she never had the kind of "normal" life consisting of social interactions? If this is so, then one cannot say she has autism symptoms since it isn't that she has an inability, but she never developed those skills which one would have under a normal childhood environment. Autism is fundamentally an inherent problem of impairment of the growth and development of the brain, and I cannot see that Mashiro has a problem in that particular aspect.

Honestly, I have to beg to differ. While Mashiro has learned a fair bit during the full run of this anime, she keeps falling back into the same sort of verbal misunderstandings that I think most people (even most previously sheltered people) would have learned to avoid by now, if in her position throughout this anime. Her facial expressions are frequently as blank as ever, her preoccupation with certain topics hasn't really changed, and in some other ways she continues to exhibit the symptoms of autism.

To me, it appears that there are overriding patterns to Mashiro's behavior and speech that she can't fully break out of.


I think that there is perfectly legitimate reason to think that Mashiro is autistic. I see nothing wrong with that, and I continue to think that there's about a 50% chance that she's autistic.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Actually, how do we know this?

You think a member of the Imperial Family, no less the Crown Prince, would not receive treatment?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I recall reading that Japan doesn't treat people for mental conditions to the same extent that we do in the western world. In fact, I've even read that given as a reason, here on Anime Suki, for why so many psychologically disturbed characters in anime never seek out psychiatric help or get treatment in line with certain mental conditions.

I would personally say there is too much "treatment" in North America and Europe, but that's my personal opinion.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Honestly, I have to beg to differ. While Mashiro has learned a fair bit during the full run of this anime, she keeps falling back into the same sort of verbal misunderstandings that I think most people would have learned to avoid by now, if in her position throughout this anime. Her facial expressions are frequently as blank as ever, her preoccupation with certain topics hasn't really changed, and in many other ways she continues to exhibit the symptoms of autism.

To me, it appears that there are overriding patterns to Mashiro's behavior and speech that she can't fully break out of.


I think that there is perfectly legitimate reason to think that Mashiro is autistic. I see nothing wrong with that, and I continue to think that there's about a 50% chance that she's autistic.

Again, you're looking at Mashiro as if she's a person who grew up in a normal environment. Everything so far indicates she has NOT, thus the statement "that I think most people would have learned to avoid by now" is not applicable. Blank facial expressions are not real consideration unless other symptoms are prevalent. Preoccupation with certain topics is a common thing (especially for someone whose life was supposedly only about art).

At this point you've basically decided on the diagnosis and retroactively looking for the symptoms. We have a person who had an unusual childhood, and thus we cannot apply the same standards as we would for most other "normal" people.